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Civ IV - performance and expansion packs


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#41 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 09:33 AM

Downloading right now, will post any changes listed in the read me in 10 mins.

No mac specific changes listed. Only the PC 2.13 changes.
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#42 AlanH

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 03:37 PM

View PostThain Esh Kelch, on March 13th 2008, 03:33 PM, said:

Downloading right now, will post any changes listed in the read me in 10 mins.

No mac specific changes listed. Only the PC 2.13 changes.

Well, I may be missing something, but the actual application code doesn't appear to have changed at all. In Get Info, it says it's version 2.13, but its mod date is still back in March 2007. The in-game "About this Build" says version 213, and says the build was created in February 2008, but that information may be coming from files outside the core executable. I really don't understand why it weighed in at over 800 MBytes, unless they've simply replaced all of the Assets and other peripheral files, both in vanilla and in Warlords, lock, stock and barrel.

#43 dojoboy

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 03:46 PM

View PostAlanH, on March 14th 2008, 05:37 PM, said:

really don't understand why it weighed in at over 800 MBytes, unless they've simply replaced all of the Assets and other peripheral files, both in vanilla and in Warlords, lock, stock and barrel.

Is it possible issues w/ MP could necessitate such?  I recall an email reply stating they were having real troubles w/ MP.
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#44 AlanH

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 05:04 AM

View Postdojoboy, on March 14th 2008, 09:46 PM, said:

Is it possible issues w/ MP could necessitate such?  I recall an email reply stating they were having real troubles w/ MP.

It makes no sense to me. Multiplayer issues would not affect ALL the assets. It would more likely affect just the application code, which is a modest 52 MBytes. I wonder if they decided to replace the whole kit and caboodle to wipe out any Mod cruft that might have been installed by users, to try to head off tech support issues.

#45 ijedi42

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 08:56 AM

sigh,
still crashes

#46 dojoboy

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 01:05 PM

View Postijedi42, on March 15th 2008, 10:56 AM, said:

sigh,
still crashes

Do a clean install, then update straight to 2.13.
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#47 Rev-O

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 11:20 PM

Worked fine for me for the brief few hours I allowed myself to play with it. I was on the verge of losing another entire day to Civ4 until I became super elephant strong and exited the game and closed my MBP and walked away.

Evil game.

#48 ijedi42

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 11:37 PM

View PostRev-O, on March 16th 2008, 12:20 AM, said:

Worked fine for me for the brief few hours I allowed myself to play with it. I was on the verge of losing another entire day to Civ4 until I became super elephant strong and exited the game and closed my MBP and walked away.

Evil game.
is it just me or is anyone else sick of the cheating the AI does in every Civ game. Case in point, the Russians have 3 cities, 2 large cities and 1 small city, less than 4 pop. Yet AMAZINGLY they continue to create more units every turn then they have cities. Every civ game i have had, civ 2,3 and now 4 does this, oh yean and Alpha Centari did that. Ok then they attack with huge armies against my cities on mountains. I have city walls, castle. But somehow a piddly catapult beats my longbowman. Meanwhile their longbowman holds off about 10 of my attacking units. Lets get to diplomacy. This is about my 50th game of CIv4. Guess what, everyone gangs up on me, nobody wants to be allies, everyone is always cautions or annoyed. But oh yeah i agreed to trade with you and trade techs with you. OH now everyone is declaring war on me. Carbon Copy every single game.
Ok done ranting.
Wait i forgot, i had the economics of the game in the early stages. I have to make my tech research down to 60% to keep from going broke. Meanwhile everyone else plows ahead of me.

#49 dojoboy

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 07:24 AM

View Postijedi42, on March 16th 2008, 01:37 AM, said:

is it just me or is anyone else sick of the cheating the AI does in every Civ game. Case in point, the Russians have 3 cities, 2 large cities and 1 small city, less than 4 pop. Yet AMAZINGLY they continue to create more units every turn then they have cities. Every civ game i have had, civ 2,3 and now 4 does this, oh yean and Alpha Centari did that. Ok then they attack with huge armies against my cities on mountains. I have city walls, castle. But somehow a piddly catapult beats my longbowman. Meanwhile their longbowman holds off about 10 of my attacking units. Lets get to diplomacy. This is about my 50th game of CIv4. Guess what, everyone gangs up on me, nobody wants to be allies, everyone is always cautions or annoyed. But oh yeah i agreed to trade with you and trade techs with you. OH now everyone is declaring war on me. Carbon Copy every single game.
Ok done ranting.
Wait i forgot, i had the economics of the game in the early stages. I have to make my tech research down to 60% to keep from going broke. Meanwhile everyone else plows ahead of me.

What difficulty level do you play usually?  I mostly play Noble, but jump to Prince w/ certain civs I'm more comfortable playing.  It's weird, in Civ3 I worked at winning on higher levels (eventually winning consistently at Emperor), but with Civ4 I've little interest - must be getting old.  

Honestly, I don't find the AI ganging-up in Civ4 often, very infrequent in my games.  In Civ4, diplomatic action have a greater impact than Civ3.  If you trade with a civ who is disliked by a third civ, then you get a reputation hit w/ that third civ.  I see the relevance of it, but it is annoying having to check relationships before trading - if reputation is important in said game.  

You may want to keep an eye on the power rankings.  It's a good way to see if you may become fodder for others.  

I like the charismatic, creative, and spiritual traits in combination w/ the other traits.  You sound like a defensive player, a builder.  If so, the protective trait may be beneficial.

As always, the best defense against AIs ganging is a respectable military.  Oh, and when I'm at war I always gift luxury/strategic resources to civs that potentially could ally with my enemy.  If I have them that is.
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#50 ijedi42

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 02:42 PM

View Postdojoboy, on March 16th 2008, 08:24 AM, said:

What difficulty level do you play usually?  I mostly play Noble, but jump to Prince w/ certain civs I'm more comfortable playing.  It's weird, in Civ3 I worked at winning on higher levels (eventually winning consistently at Emperor), but with Civ4 I've little interest - must be getting old.  

Honestly, I don't find the AI ganging-up in Civ4 often, very infrequent in my games.  In Civ4, diplomatic action have a greater impact than Civ3.  If you trade with a civ who is disliked by a third civ, then you get a reputation hit w/ that third civ.  I see the relevance of it, but it is annoying having to check relationships before trading - if reputation is important in said game.  

You may want to keep an eye on the power rankings.  It's a good way to see if you may become fodder for others.  

I like the charismatic, creative, and spiritual traits in combination w/ the other traits.  You sound like a defensive player, a builder.  If so, the protective trait may be beneficial.

As always, the best defense against AIs ganging is a respectable military.  Oh, and when I'm at war I always gift luxury/strategic resources to civs that potentially could ally with my enemy.  If I have them that is.
What i find happening is one civ goes stop trading with the other and i refuse. THen the other one says the same thing and then they both hate me. What should be happening is i refuse for one, and my rep with the other should go up as i am standing firm with them.

I have been playing on noble. It just irks me that its the same game for me evey time. I dont mind getting into a big war. What irks me is i try and be a good partner to another civ, and i trade with them and stand with them, and then boom just one day they decide they want to attack me when we have only had a history of peace and friendship. I can understand it if we had borders against each other. Maybe im just jaded though.
Yes i am definately a builder, i just dont understand how the ai is able to build these massive armies and cities both at the same time, there is just way to many units being created all of the sudden by to few cities.

#51 dojoboy

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 04:37 PM

View Postijedi42, on March 16th 2008, 04:42 PM, said:

Yes i am definitely a builder, i just don't understand how the ai is able to build these massive armies and cities both at the same time, there is just way to many units being created all of the sudden by to few cities.

I'm a builder as well, w/ selected wars for land grabs.

When not at war, or planning on an offensive, I keep about 5 siege weapons on hand to weaken invading stacks.  Once I kill the stack, the AI usually turtles.  Then, I pick off choice cities.

I don't believe what the AI has isn't necessarily "abnormal."  If you were planning a war, wouldn't prepare and have a SOD when you declared?  As for friendly AIs attacking me, I can say I've never seen an AI with whom I had all + relations (meaning nothing in the red) declare war on me.  Also, another explanation could be that, in Civ4, you can pay a Civ to declare war on someone without actually going to war yourself.  Maybe an AI did such to you.
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#52 AlanH

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 05:28 PM

View Postijedi42, on March 16th 2008, 08:42 PM, said:

i just dont understand how the ai is able to build these massive armies and cities both at the same time, there is just way to many units being created all of the sudden by to few cities.
At Noble level, the AI doesn't have production capabilities that you don't have. In fact you should be at an advantage.

Have a look at some of the strategies employed by the top players. Look at the spoilers in the forums.civfanatics.com Game of the Month competitions, or the Succession Game threads. You'd be surprised what can be achieved if you focus totally on producing military units. You can use forest chops, slave labour and production multipliers of various kinds to get more hammers per turn. This is a strategy game, with a rather more intelligent computer competitor than we may be used to. So you have to learn how to use all the resources and techniques at your disposal.

#53 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 03:15 AM

*Chants* Make love, not war...!

But seriously folks... I don't see that kind of behavior that much in my games, only if I lag behind in power or tech. Then they tend to gang up on me... It seems to me that if you are considered a 'high ranking civ', they tend to respect you, and vice versa.
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#54 martyjay75

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Posted 22 March 2008 - 10:58 AM

View PostThain Esh Kelch, on March 18th 2008, 02:15 AM, said:

*Chants* Make love, not war...!

But seriously folks... I don't see that kind of behavior that much in my games, only if I lag behind in power or tech. Then they tend to gang up on me... It seems to me that if you are considered a 'high ranking civ', they tend to respect you, and vice versa.



This may have been mentioned already.  But I have found that civs won't team on you as much if you invest considerable effort in spreading your religion.  Case in point, I'm playing on Noble Level and have a defensive pact with the top 3 civs on the board (me being #2).  I share a 2 common main religions with both of them.  Before I used to ignore religion's impact.  I found that doing that makes it much more likely that you'll be ganged up on especially if your neighbors don't share the same religions that you do.  It's a very delicate balance of playing one civ off the other.  I tend to try please the civs who are closest to me and annoy the ones who are not.  The only exception to this rule is if my neighbors are weak.... then it's time to pounce.

Granted, I'm not sure how effective this would be at higher levels.  I've never ventured past Noble, I think it's challenging enough.

#55 QuantaCat

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 12:14 AM

Oh and I just played BtS for windows, and I sure am hoping this is coming to mac, because it is dee lish shous.
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#56 ijedi42

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 03:04 PM

Ok thanks for the advice. I find that i am doing somewhat better so far. I still am finding the other nations building units to be WAY out of line. Also combat i am losing to knights and macemen with gunpowder units in cities, on hills. I find that lame since ill use 5 or so knights against 2 longbowman and they will hold me off on non mountain cities. Also the game crashes evey 10 turns or so with the new patch, anyelse get this. I wonder if i have graphic settings to high with a 1st gen dual core intel.

#57 dojoboy

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 03:11 PM

View Postijedi42, on March 24th 2008, 05:04 PM, said:

Ok thanks for the advice. I find that i am doing somewhat better so far. I still am finding the other nations building units to be WAY out of line. Also combat i am losing to knights and macemen with gunpowder units in cities, on hills. I find that lame since ill use 5 or so knights against 2 longbowman and they will hold me off on non mountain cities. Also the game crashes evey 10 turns or so with the new patch, anyelse get this. I wonder if i have graphic settings to high with a 1st gen dual core intel.

In general, a musketman in a city on a hill w/ defensive bonuses will defeat a knight, one knight.  IIRC, a knight is a strength of 10 (and immune to first strikes) while a musketman is a strength of 9 (and no special abilities).  However, attack by multiple units will surely defeat a musketman or two, especially if a few cats have weakened the city's defensive bonuses.
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#58 Rev-O

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Posted 04 April 2008 - 05:00 PM

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Just a little subliminal suggestion in case anyone from Aspyr drops by the thread.

#59 eschatz

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 03:32 PM

I need Beyond the Sword. Badly. I almost bough the gold edition at Best Buy the other day.  :glare:
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#60 dojoboy

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 04:15 PM

View Posteschatz, on April 21st 2008, 05:32 PM, said:

I need Beyond the Sword. Badly. I almost bough the gold edition at Best Buy the other day.  :glare:

For peacemongering, BTS is awesome.
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