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Order a GeForce 8800 GT kit for your "old" Mac Pro


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#41 rob_ART

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 09:25 AM

One guy emailed me that he posted the petition link in the Apple Aperture forum. The moderators retaliated by deleting his identity and removing all 700+ postings he's ever made.

Looks like we're hitting a nerve -- but Apple brought it on themselves.
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#42 Hansi

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 09:36 AM

Can't see what's stopping NVidia from releasing an upgrade for older MacPros much like ATI did with the X1900 for DC G5 towers?

#43 rob_ART

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 09:46 AM

View PostHansi, on January 11th 2008, 07:36 AM, said:

Can't see what's stopping NVidia from releasing an upgrade for older MacPros much like ATI did with the X1900 for DC G5 towers?

nVidia's response in the past is "We don't make cards. We only make chipsets." Someone like ASUS or EVGA has to do it.
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#44 PeopleLikeFrank

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 09:56 AM

View Postrob_ART, on January 11th 2008, 10:46 AM, said:

nVidia's response in the past is "We don't make cards. We only make chipsets." Someone like ASUS or EVGA has to do it.

That is still the case. There's nothing stopping any of those companies from doing it, they just haven't decided they want to.

A couple of thoughts:

-Now that they've transitioned to EFI64, there probably won't be a similar transition for some time. There should be a relative stabilization of hardware at this point, and all those who are freaking out about there never being an upgrade path ever again can probably calm down. Unless Apple are just being jerks and intentionally obstructing the process.

-Somebody in the Apple forum suggested that this could be solved with a firmware upgrade to older MPs. Don't know if they're right, but there seems to be a possibility there.

-The MP is just establishing itself. I feel pretty confident that as Apple gains some market share (mostly in portables, but some of those have to be MPs), and PowerPC hardware is phased out, then retail graphics cards for the Mac become a more viable market again. We could see the return of more frequent retail solutions from ATi, though whether any of the nVidia manufacturers will get in on it is uncertain.
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#45 PeopleLikeFrank

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 10:01 AM

View PostLowry, on January 10th 2008, 07:11 PM, said:

Looks to big aluminum imac.

Um. The 24" iMac costs $2299. A new MP with a single (quad-core) CPU costs $2299. Granted you have to pay $200 for the 8800, and you need a separate monitor, but I don't see how the current situation would point to buying a totally non-upgradeable iMac as an alternative.
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#46 ikir

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 02:06 PM

Any news?

Could we send petition results also to ATi and nVidia?
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#47 ikir

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 02:12 PM

View Postrob_ART, on January 11th 2008, 03:58 PM, said:

I know some key persons there. I think they are full aware of the situation and realize that ATI/AMD has a great opportunity to do a mighty service to the Mac community by coming out with a high-end retail PCie card that will work on all Mac Pros.


Please Rob keep us updated. And let us know if we can do something, like signing the petition.
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#48 Atticus

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 03:12 PM

Ya' know, this stinks. I'd RATHER buy an 8800 for my Mac Pro (august 2006 model) than have to build my own gaming PC, but Steve leaves me no choice--I'm sick of paltry video card options on the high end, and this "lock out" is the final straw for me. Bad Apple has been showing its ugly face lately more than I care to admit, and I have no problem voting with my wallet. My Mac Pro is probably the last "pro" Mac desktop I'm going to buy for a long time, maybe ever. So I'll be gaming on a PC and keeping my Mac Pro around as a media center. But I guess that's how Steve wants it anyway. Oh well.

I think I liked it better when APPL was a struggling company, about to go down the tubes.

Long live Mac gaming!

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#49 Disc

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 03:23 PM

All,

Also consider leaving feedback at Apple's website on the Mac pro and the GFX card issue

http://www.apple.com...ack/macpro.html
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#50 jgwdoc

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 04:01 PM

View PostDisc, on January 11th 2008, 02:23 PM, said:

All,

Also consider leaving feedback at Apple's website on the Mac pro and the GFX card issue

http://www.apple.com...ack/macpro.html


OK. Did that too. And e-mailed Steve. At least we can maybe flood his inbox.
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#51 jrnewhouse

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 06:29 PM

Oh for the days of my totally upgradeable PowerMac 7300.  The ability to replace the video card and even the processor kept it useful for many years.  That was one great computer!
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#52 the Battle Cat

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 07:27 PM

I got a lot of use out of my G4 sawtooth, in fact after a couple memory upgrades, two vid card upgrades, a processor upgrade, and a hard drive upgrade it is still running today on my network.  Think how many computers Steve could have sold me if that G4 wasn't upgradable...
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#53 Cain

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 08:50 PM

View Postthe Battle Cat, on January 11th 2008, 06:27 PM, said:

I got a lot of use out of my G4 sawtooth, in fact after a couple memory upgrades, two vid card upgrades, a processor upgrade, and a hard drive upgrade it is still running today on my network.  Think how many computers Steve could have sold me if that G4 wasn't upgradable...

Hey TBC, I still work on my G4 sawtooth as well (video editing in Final Cut Pro and sound editing in Pro Tools). As I recall you were the one that convinced me to purchase the Radeon 9800 Pro for it which worked out great! I'll be replacing the system with one of the new Mac Pros soon but here's hoping Apple gives some love to the owners of the older models. Not being able to upgrade the card on a "workstation" that's 18 months old is pretty unbelievable.

#54 rob_ART

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 08:57 PM

View Postjgwdoc, on January 11th 2008, 02:01 PM, said:

OK. Did that too. And e-mailed Steve. At least we can maybe flood his inbox.

How do you email Steve?

I'd like to send him the results of my online petition.
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#55 AussieMacGamer

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 09:12 PM

while i know this issue would be fixed withought this petition anyway, its good that the Mac community is stickin it to the man!

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#56 jgwdoc

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 09:47 PM

View Postrob_ART, on January 11th 2008, 07:57 PM, said:

How do you email Steve?

I'd like to send him the results of my online petition.


The email address is:  sjobs@apple.com

It was posted once at www.applefritter.com

MacPro-specific complaints can also be addressed to Apple at: http://www.apple.com...ack/macpro.html


I'm really hoping we can make them budge on this issue. It's truly undermining my faith in the cult.
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#57 Tesseract

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 09:54 PM

View PostLowry, on January 11th 2008, 11:11 AM, said:

Looks to big aluminum imac.

View Postrob_ART, on January 11th 2008, 12:58 PM, said:

Huh?
http://docs.info.app...l?artnum=305346
takes me to the page listing all the cards for the G5, Mac Pro (2006,2007) and Mac Pro (2008).

View Postnobody, on January 12th 2008, 03:01 AM, said:

Um. The 24" iMac costs $2299. A new MP with a single (quad-core) CPU costs $2299. Granted you have to pay $200 for the 8800, and you need a separate monitor, but I don't see how the current situation would point to buying a totally non-upgradeable iMac as an alternative.
Fascinating, the different ways in which people interpret an unparseable sentence. :)

#58 ikir

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 03:56 AM

View Postjgwdoc, on January 12th 2008, 01:01 AM, said:

OK. Did that too. And e-mailed Steve. At least we can maybe flood his inbox.

Me too. Try everything  guys.

View Postrob_ART, on January 12th 2008, 05:57 AM, said:

How do you email Steve?

I'd like to send him the results of my online petition.

Cool, thanks for your work Rob about the issue and  BareFeats.
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#59 teflon

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 10:29 AM

as it happens, it doesnt seem to be all to difficult to get ATI cards to work on an 'old' MP. not to mention that the 8800GT does appear to work. Or at least 8800GTs were gotten to work through seeded builds of 10.5.2 prior to the release of the new Mac Pros...
in addition to all of this, people have managed to get the 3850/3870 cards to work... bearing in mind the 3870 can match the 8800GT on occasions, but is generally fairly outmatched, you do have another alternative...

pretty astonishing considering that its supposedly not possible to do this.

head on over here... no actual details, but you can get in touch with them on irc.
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#60 rob_ART

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 04:31 PM

I've received more a more detailed explanation on the GPU situation from, let's just say, an unimpeachable source.

Video cards that boot on the new "early 2008" Mac Pro with its 64-bit EFI ROM need to have a 64-bit EFI driver in their ROM.

Video cards that boot on the "Aug 2006" and "Apr 2007" Mac Pro with its 32-bit EFI ROM need to have a 32-bit EFI driver in their ROM.

The ATI HD 2600 XT has both a 32-bit and 64-bit EFI driver in its ROM so it will "boot" on the "2006/2007" Mac Pro as well as the "2008" Mac Pro, though, officially, Apple only commits to supporting it on the "2008" Mac Pro.

However, the nVidia GeForce 8800 GT only has a 64-bit EFI driver in its ROM so it will ONLY boot on a "2008" Mac Pro.

Theoretically, a "2006/2007" Mac Pro could have its EFI firmware upgraded to 64-bit, but then the graphics cards that shipped with the that model of Mac Pro (GeForce 7300 GT, Radeon X1900 XT) would no longer boot.

A better approach, if Apple chose to adopt it, would be to put both a 32-bit and 64-bit EFI driver in the GeForce 8800 GT's ROM -- assuming there's room in the ROM for both drivers along with everything else that has to go in it.
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