[Rob052067]

This is Big News in My House!

For the first time ever, the family-favorite Hoyle Games have finally been released with Mac OS X compatiblity! The last versions compatible with Mac OS 9 were released back in 2002 by Sierra. The past few years, updates have been released by Encore in PC-only format.

I just accidently stumbled upon the games at my local Sam's Club the other night ($15.87 each). The games are on combo PC/Mac DVD's and retail for $19.99 each. They are also listed on Amazon and Best Buy.com. Game descriptions and Free-Trial Downloads (possibly PC-only) are available at the websites noted below.

Hoyle Card Games (2008):
http://www.hoylegami...uct.asp?id=1429

Hoyle Casino (2008):
http://www.hoylegami...uct.asp?id=1428

Hoyle Puzzle & Board Games (2008):
http://www.hoylegami...uct.asp?id=1431

Hoyle Gaming Home Page:
http://www.hoylegaming.com/default.asp


Minimum System Requirements:

Mac: Macintosh® OS X 10.4.10, G3, G4, G5 or Intel Core Duo processor, 600 MHz or higher, 256 MB RAM, DVD-ROM drive, 32MB VRAM (ATI Rage cards not supported), 1 GB hard drive space.

PC: Windows® 2000 SP4/XP (Home & Pro) SP2/Vista™¹, Pentium® 266 MHz processor or faster (800 MHz processor for Vista), 16 MB RAM (64 MB for Windows XP, 512 MB RAM for Vista), 1 GB Hard Disk Space, DVD-ROM drive, 800x600 @ 16 bit color. ¹Administrator privileges are required to properly install the program on Windows 2000, Windows XP and Vista.

** Note 1: These games do actually require nearly 1GB of disk space, each. Unlike the older versions that required the CD's to be inserted in order to take advantage of all the visual and audio effects, these new versions install the entire game, effects and all, from the DVD to your hard drive. **

** Note 2: In each game box, there's a DVD and a Software/Game Manual. The Registration Key for Mac Installation is printed on the back-cover of the Manual. **

[Bill Ramey]

Thanks for the heads up. Do these versions support high resolutions, e.g., 1440 x 900?

[Rob052067]

Bill Ramey, on October 11th 2007, 12:59 AM, said:

Thanks for the heads up. Do these versions support high resolutions, e.g., 1440 x 900?

They don't appear to. In full screen mode, they are not hi-res. They are much cleaner looking in Window mode, but the window is not adjustable in size. I don't like the look of the full screen mode, but wish that the window mode was larger. Seems no changes in viewing options or clarity since the last versions were made for OS 9. If anyone knows how to adjust the window size for these games, please post.

Edit: I checked my specs, and I've got an ATI Radeon video card. Not sure if that's a problem or not - the system reqs only say it doesn't support ATI Rage. I'll know for certain next spring when I upgrade to a new Intel iMac.

[robeddie]

I with ya. I am shocked and delighted to see these are back and now os-x compatable.

However, good luck to all the folks though who haven't stumbled upon this message board. I have a feeling Encore will take the same approach to Mac marketing that sierra did before them for these game suites: NONE at all!

I won't hold my breath to see these titles even mentioned here in the news section of IMG... let alone go on sale at Mac Game Store.

[Hippieman]

Cool glad you guys like em. We did the porting work for both the Mac and Windows versions. The window sizes are fixed due to the sprite artwork, but you can toggle between full screen and window.

[robeddie]

Hippieman, on November 7th 2007, 11:50 AM, said:

Cool glad you guys like em. We did the porting work for both the Mac and Windows versions. The window sizes are fixed due to the sprite artwork, but you can toggle between full screen and window.

OK... I gotta tell you. Thank you thank you thank you!. Fixed windows or not... this is the definative board and card game collection... period. I mean, you pay 20 bucks for a stand alone backgammon game somewhere else, and for the same price this gives you backgammon, chess, checkers, parshisi and about 20 other games... simply no contest.

I had long given up hope that these would be ported to os-x... and as far as I can tell there was no announcement of this upcoming port... what's the story behind this? Did Encore call you guys last month and say 'hey mac market share is up to 8-percent' would you like to port this for us?

Anyway, thanks again. now I'm set for the next several years with a whole collection of decent board and card games.

[Hippieman]

Sort of yeah, it was an interesting task.

We actually did both Windows and Mac, doing updates and such (like Vista stuff IIRC). We were just finishing up Marathon when this started. Encore's pretty cool, they have a lot of good properties, and it looks like they are getting interested in bringing them to the Mac.

Edit: if you play Sudoku, you'll find it's none other than Big Bang Brain Sudoku.

[jeffsters]

I posted this to the Encore forum back in Feb but never got an answer other than we'll forward it on, but be aware:

In Casino had a won a great deal of money and wanted to play around making crazy bets so I backed up the apps files (found in Application Support folder) so I could go crazy and not worry about loosing the money. In my back and forth delete, reinstall, delete, reinstall, I noticed that like the "Ground Hog Day" movie, history kept repeating itself.

At one point I could open the game, go to blackjack and tell you each persons cards before the dealer flipped the card. In one game there was NO way I could win the hand. There was even a time when if I Hit, I busted with a 10, if I stayed, the player next to me got a 3 on their hit. No matter how many times I played the cards were ALWAYS the same as was the outcome. I loose either I busted and the dealer busted, or I stayed and the dealer got 21. Didn't matter what i did.

In this case the only way around this was to go play some other game or bet low loose and move on.

In Roulette same thing...I can play it and then see where the ball goes, then reset the prefs and play again to win!

So...here is my issue.

I had thought, perhaps foolishly, that the game would have some random generator going on and that game play was live. But I see now that it's not and my winning or loosing is somehow pre-ordained? That's depressing and has taken all the fun out of the game.

Anyway, the fact that results seem to be done by some static calc rather than random is really disappointing. I mean it's set for the player to loose no matter what at times. As I said, in blackjack, if I take a hit I get a 10 and bust, if I stand the player next to me gets a 3. Over and over. I guess I would be less concerned if when I stand the player next to me got a 10 like a "real" deck. But it seems, at times, the goal of the game is for me to loose no matter what I decide.

Has made the game totally unenjoyable to play...wish now I was still living in ignorance!

BTW: I played with it some more and found a cool thing! When you get to a billion dollars you're forced to pay ransom to kidnappers and they take 999 million. Grrrrrr.....

[Eric5h5]

jeffsters, on April 21st 2008, 04:04 PM, said:

I had thought, perhaps foolishly, that the game would have some random generator going on and that game play was live. But I see now that it's not and my winning or loosing is somehow pre-ordained? That's depressing and has taken all the fun out of the game.

Actually, random number generators in computers are not really random. Since computers are completely deterministic, there's no way to get a "true" random number out of them. RNGs always result in a predictable series of numbers, so what you're seeing makes sense.

However, RNGs are "seeded" with a number...this is the basis from which all the other numbers are generated. RNGs are usually seeded with some number that's not predictable, like the exact time you're starting the game. So even though the sequence of numbers is predictable, you won't know which sequence it is, and since there are zillions of possible starting numbers, for all intents and purposes, the numbers are random. So it looks like the developers fell down on the job a bit and didn't seed the RNG properly. Probably they didn't expect the player to keep resetting the app like you have, so they didn't notice.

--Eric

[jeffsters]

Eric5h5, on April 21st 2008, 04:53 PM, said:

Actually, random number generators in computers are not really random. Since computers are completely deterministic, there's no way to get a "true" random number out of them. RNGs always result in a predictable series of numbers, so what you're seeing makes sense.

However, RNGs are "seeded" with a number...this is the basis from which all the other numbers are generated. RNGs are usually seeded with some number that's not predictable, like the exact time you're starting the game. So even though the sequence of numbers is predictable, you won't know which sequence it is, and since there are zillions of possible starting numbers, for all intents and purposes, the numbers are random. So it looks like the developers fell down on the job a bit and didn't seed the RNG properly. Probably they didn't expect the player to keep resetting the app like you have, so they didn't notice.

--Eric

I understand but I think this is even deeper. As I said, it's not just the card or the roll of the wheel, but as in the case of Blackjack, I can't win! No matter what.

So taking your premise above THE next card, regardless, should be the same. But it's not. If I "hit" I get a "10" if I stand the dealer gets a "2". See my point? If it were a simple case of a RNG if it was set to simply determine the next card dealt that would be fine as the dealer would bust with a "10" but instead the dealer gets a "2" for "21"! I'd be happy if they simply took an array of card values 1-X decks and sorted them in random order multiple times at the start of each game. A virtual shoe so to speak. The cards would be what they are and even if I were to use the technique above would always be different.

Anyway, regardless, it's not the way it should work and now you all know that when you play your winning or losing is preordained at the start of the hand/game and no amount of thought or strategy is going to change that.

[Eric5h5]

jeffsters, on April 21st 2008, 08:47 PM, said:

in the case of Blackjack, I can't win! No matter what.

Ah, in that case it's just cheating. Also known as the "Greater IMG Backgammon Cheating Theory". Lousy cheating programs! It's better to play with real people. They still cheat, but at least you can punch them.

--Eric

[Tesseract]

Eric5h5, on April 22nd 2008, 07:53 AM, said:

Actually, random number generators in computers are not really random. Since computers are completely deterministic, there's no way to get a "true" random number out of them.

Unless you have one of these, of course. Which some computers do.

[Eric5h5]

Tesseract, on April 22nd 2008, 09:15 AM, said:

Unless you have one of these, of course. Which some computers do.

I was going to mention that (like using the noise generator of the SID chip on the C64), but didn't want to blather on any more than I already did....

--Eric