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#761 Tetsuya

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Posted 28 January 2017 - 06:16 PM

I would not be rolling with a GTX 1050Ti while blowing almost 200$ on an SSD.  

Thats just me, i guess, but being able to hit 1080p/Ultra/60fps reliably is far, far, far higher up the list than an SSD.  

Also, Motherboard will come with a couple of SATA cables, and the case will have screws or other mounting hardware for the DVD drive (rather doubt it will be screws, most have plastic twist locks now, for tool-less ease of use).  There's plenty of free burning software out there.  

Quote

PCPartPicker part list: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/rjJrtJ
Price breakdown by merchant: https://pcpartpicker...tJ/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel Core i5-7600K 3.8GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($232.99 @ SuperBiiz)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler  ($29.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z270M-D3H Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($119.99 @ Jet)
Memory: Crucial 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR4-2133 Memory  ($52.98 @ Newegg)
Storage: Seagate 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Hybrid Internal Hard Drive  ($69.99 @ Jet)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 1060 6GB 6GB SSC GAMING Video Card  ($259.99 @ Jet)
Case: Zalman ZM-T3 MicroATX Mini Tower Case  ($32.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: SeaSonic S12II 520W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply  ($47.89 @ B&H)
Total: $846.81
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-01-28 19:15 EST-0500

Is where i'd be.  Swap the case for your preferred case, and add a DVD-RW if you need it.  (This is just a generic basic build i keep around on PcPartpicker for people to peruse).  

Get an SSD later, if you need to.

If you want to keep it under 1000, with the bells and whistles:

Quote

PCPartPicker part list: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/KQfbcc
Price breakdown by merchant: https://pcpartpicker...cc/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel Core i5-7600K 3.8GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($232.99 @ SuperBiiz)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler  ($29.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z270M-D3H Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($119.99 @ Jet)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory  ($91.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Sandisk SSD PLUS 240GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($69.50 @ B&H)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($49.33 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: MSI Radeon RX 480 4GB Video Card  ($174.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Fractal Design Define R5 (Titanium) ATX Mid Tower Case  ($99.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic S12II 520W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply  ($47.89 @ B&H)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS124-14 DVD/CD Writer  ($16.89 @ OutletPC)
Total: $933.55
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-01-28 19:22 EST-0500

Swapped in your chosen case, an SSD, and dropped the GPU to an RX 480 4GB (still plenty powerful and on sale for a great price right now).  If you have the coin, consider going with the GTX 1060 6GB.  

A list of all my basic builds for a starting point:

http://pcpartpicker..../Kagthul/saved/

#762 Tetsuya

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Posted 28 January 2017 - 06:32 PM

I just read your original post about budget and needs.  

Will update this later.  Have to do chores first.  Stupid dishes....

#763 DirtyHarry50

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Posted 28 January 2017 - 07:38 PM

View PostTetsuya, on 28 January 2017 - 06:32 PM, said:

I just read your original post about budget and needs.  

Will update this later.  Have to do chores first.  Stupid dishes....

Thanks very much. I think Camper-Hunter's build was trying to take into account stuff I'd said about baseline and building up from there, my desire for SSD, noting my present disk usage came in at under 500 GB and that investing in a better case up front would make it something worth keeping, etc. and was very good as such. The problem though comes with needing a display too and something needing to give somewhere. However, I know the GPU is a sore spot there. I had wondered about whether a lesser CPU with a better GPU would work with the idea that the CPU might be the first upgrade when I can do it. I've seen some budget builds using dual core Intel chips and claiming they can run newer games decently but they put better GPUs into those. I wondered about that where it seems a lot of games require 4 core now don't they? I haven't bought much lately nor paid attention to that.

I should have mentioned what level of performance I've been living with by giving the basics on this 2013 iMac which are: Intel i5 3.4, 8 GB RAM, Nvidia 775M 2 GB RAM and 1 TB 7200 RPM hard disk. I think the 775M in the iMac is just a rebranded 680M (not 680MX) if I recall correctly. I stopped buying anything new for this because I found I had to turn settings down so much along with resolution that it wasn't worth it and I had older stuff to play but even that seems to push this hardware with fans going all out. It's loud enough to be a distraction not to mention a little unnerving in a system design like this where it's running just cool enough to not shut itself off. Speaking of that, I wonder if the performance is throttled to keep it from melting down not that it matters anymore at this point.
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#764 DirtyHarry50

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Posted 28 January 2017 - 07:56 PM

I just thought of something else. Maybe I should be open to a hybrid drive to save money that could go toward a better GPU and upgrade to 512 GB SSD later. I never thought about this before but can a hybrid be used as a data drive at a later point in time? It's not a big deal either way but I just wondered about that.

I just don't want to do the kind of slow speed I've been living with with the hard drive in this iMac anymore. That is important to me. Stuff like a nice case I'd like but not at a significant performance expense and I was concerned about the GPU but I have no idea how it compares to what I'm used to in this Mac.
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#765 macdude22

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Posted 28 January 2017 - 08:01 PM

View PostTetsuya, on 28 January 2017 - 06:16 PM, said:

I would not be rolling with a GTX 1050Ti while blowing almost 200$ on an SSD.  

I'd rather have a wet paper towel for a GPU than be stuck with spinning rust.
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#766 DirtyHarry50

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Posted 28 January 2017 - 08:15 PM

View Postmacdude22, on 28 January 2017 - 08:01 PM, said:

I'd rather have a wet paper towel for a GPU than be stuck with spinning rust.

What do you think about a hybrid drive temporarily until I could replace it with a 512 GB SSD? I have no first hand experience with them at all so maybe it isn't worth skimping there?
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#767 Tetsuya

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Posted 28 January 2017 - 08:58 PM

Case choice is subjective, but i like the Prodigy as it is easy to work in and sort of looks like a mini old school Mac Pro.  

Quote

PCPartPicker part list: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/ZbMkzM
Price breakdown by merchant: https://pcpartpicker...zM/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel Core i5-7600K 3.8GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($232.99 @ SuperBiiz)
CPU Cooler: CRYORIG C7 40.5 CFM CPU Cooler  ($27.45 @ Newegg Marketplace)
Motherboard: ASRock Z270M-ITX/ac Mini ITX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($122.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: G.Skill Aegis 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory  ($51.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Crucial MX300 275GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive  ($89.98 @ Directron)
Video Card: MSI Radeon RX 480 4GB Video Card  ($174.99 @ Newegg)
Case: BitFenix Prodigy (White) Mini ITX Tower Case  ($78.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: SeaSonic S12II 520W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply  ($47.89 @ B&H)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS124-14 DVD/CD Writer  ($16.89 @ OutletPC)
Monitor: Acer H226HQLbid 21.5" 1920x1080 60Hz Monitor  ($99.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $944.15
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-01-28 21:47 EST-0500

There's still some room in the budget for a bigger SSD (i went with 275GB as the sweet spot on price/size) if you want.  

The RX 480 is plenty good for 1080p gaming.  You could jump to a GTX 1060 6GB if you want, as it is slightly faster, but im not sure its worth the price currently (about 250 for about 5-10% more performance, at best).  

As for going with a Hybrid Drive... meh?  Ive got one in my gaming rig (16GB/2TB) and it definitely boots faster than a regular platter drive, and the OS itself is snappy, but you wont see improved loading times in games because the SSD portion is not big enough to hold much more than the OS.  If you need mass storage, you can grab a 1TB platter from WD for about 45$.  As to wether SSHDs can be used as storage drives - sure.  Most of it is just a regular platter anyway.



View Postmacdude22, on 28 January 2017 - 08:01 PM, said:

I'd rather have a wet paper towel for a GPU than be stuck with spinning rust.

Well, when your wet paper towel wont allow the computer to do what you want it to, the SSD is doing you no good.  That simple.  Ill take 10 seconds of extra loading time to meet a performance goal every day of the week, twice on saturday, and twenty times on sunday before ill waste money on an SSD which adds no frames per second, doesnt let you run on better settings, etc.  

If the game loads up in 5 seconds but looks like trash...

who cares?

Another alternative for a case is this one by Phanteks:

http://www.phanteks....-Evolv-ITX.html

It's what my rig is currently built into.  Also very easy to work with, super good cable management behind the motherboard.  Great airflow.

#768 macdude22

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Posted 28 January 2017 - 09:47 PM

View PostDirtyHarry50, on 28 January 2017 - 08:15 PM, said:

What do you think about a hybrid drive temporarily until I could replace it with a 512 GB SSD? I have no first hand experience with them at all so maybe it isn't worth skimping there?

I have 2 hybrid drives, they work well enough for what they are. But 8GB of NAND isn't enough for it to cache anything but the OS. Booting 40 gig games like the division still take fooooorever on rust.

Neither is in active use anymore (just random popsnizzle boxes in the basement) I would be happy to mail you one of them to try out. I have a 1TB toshiba hybrid 2.5" drive and a 2TB seagate. The seagate has seen a lot more use in it's life, the toshiba was not used actively for very long.

Seagate does sell a single 2.5 inch drive that is pared with a more reasonable 32GB NAND, but the desktop line is still limited with a mere 8.
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#769 Camper-Hunter

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 07:15 AM

Tetsuya, you suggested a 21" monitor, DirtyHarry wants a 24", but if that's OK with him he saves quite a lot this way.
I think for his needs the i5-7600K is overkill, and the i5-7500 helps to save $30. But if he can afford it, sure it's a good choice.
I'm not sure I'd invest in a 47 mm cooler, that can't be much better than the stock fan? I'd rather get a larger fan which can spin slower and still can pump as much or more air. Though I have little experience with smaller fans these days, so I won't object if you say this fan is both silent and efficient.
I agree the GTX 1060 would be better than the 1050Ti, but it's hard to stay in budget otherwise, at least with the SSD requirement.

If Harry could afford both the SSD and the 1060, for $1150-1200 total (less with a cheaper case than the Fractal Design and cheaper display than a 24"), then that would be perfect! :)

#770 DirtyHarry50

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 12:17 PM

Considering the suggestions thus far, I am inclined to like the build Camper suggested in every way but the compromise on GPU which couldn't be helped given the other components. As I understand it, isn't the big thing with the K series CPUs the ability to overclock them? That isn't something I'd be interested in doing personally. I'd rather just stick to stock specs and not fiddle with it myself.

What do you guys think about initially going with an i3 Intel CPU to save money that would permit a better GPU with the idea being to make that the first part I upgrade as soon as I am able to afford it. I could stick to games that would be okay with that such as EverQuest, the Infinity Engine remakes I've been meaning to get to and a host of other classics I have until I can swing that. I do have the PS4 for fancy new stuff and plenty of that to play. Nothing I use in the way of apps needs anything more than an i3 anyway. Again, this is just to get me started and would be the first thing to be replaced when possible. I've seen those in use with the ill fated Steam Boxes turned into low end Windows boxes from Alienware, etc. so presumably they can handle less demanding games okay and temporarily that would be fine.

I really would prefer the 24" display rather than a 21" I'd want to get rid of ASAP and in a perfect world I'd much prefer the 500 GB SSD Camper recommended also where it offers ample room for the time being and I can easily add a cheap spinning drive for data storage locally later. I also like that case a lot and prefer the ATX vs mini form factor for the system personally although that old MacPro look-alike case was cool.

I may try to get a little more for the iMac just to see if I can and toss in the SuperDrive I have for it and a 1 TB drive for use with Time Machine to add a little value but those things can be a tough sell to boost price a bit if someone has no need of them. That's sort of a crapshoot but I can try that.

Anyway, I'd be interested in hearing what you guys think of a substantial temporary compromise on the CPU in favor of other stuff I'd be happy to keep longer otherwise.
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#771 DirtyHarry50

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 12:26 PM

View Postmacdude22, on 28 January 2017 - 09:47 PM, said:

I have 2 hybrid drives, they work well enough for what they are. But 8GB of NAND isn't enough for it to cache anything but the OS. Booting 40 gig games like the division still take fooooorever on rust.

Neither is in active use anymore (just random popsnizzle boxes in the basement) I would be happy to mail you one of them to try out. I have a 1TB toshiba hybrid 2.5" drive and a 2TB seagate. The seagate has seen a lot more use in it's life, the toshiba was not used actively for very long.

Seagate does sell a single 2.5 inch drive that is pared with a more reasonable 32GB NAND, but the desktop line is still limited with a mere 8.

Thank you. That's very kind of you to offer. Depending on how things go here, etc. I might want to take you up on that but I want to get some feedback on the CPU compromise, etc. and go from there in figuring this out.
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#772 DirtyHarry50

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 01:37 PM

Starting from Camper's build and going with an i3, holding off on the CD/DVD drive, moving up to a 1060 GPU and changing the display to an ASUS 24" with free shipping that saved me 16 bucks and change I came up with this:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i3-7100 3.9GHz Dual-Core Processor  ($118.89 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z270P-D3 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($110.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory  ($52.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Intel 600p Series 512GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive  ($169.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 1060 3GB 3GB GAMING Video Card  ($194.99 @ B&H)
Case: Fractal Design Define R5 (Titanium) ATX Mid Tower Case  ($99.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic S12II 620W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply  ($60.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Monitor: Asus VS24AH-P 24.0" 1920x1200 Monitor  ($219.99 @ Best Buy)
Total: $1028.81
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-01-29 14:33 EST-0500

By the way, this is really fun. Thanks so much for all your suggestions, advice and help with this. I appreciate it very, very much. I know it takes time doing this stuff and it is very nice of you guys to help me out with it. I value your advice highly.
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#773 Camper-Hunter

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 01:46 PM

Caution, you picked up a 3 GB GTX 1060. Better to opt for the 6 GB version, obviously more expensive but 3 GB is getting low nowadays.

#774 DirtyHarry50

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 02:00 PM

True but it also hikes the price over 50 bucks is the problem there. I also figure it is something I'd replace following the CPU probably before anything else so for the time I'd have it, I'd probably be alright there and it is quite an upgrade from the 775m I am using now. That probably sounds penny wise and pound foolish but my budget really is this tight and it would be nice to get the iMac sold sooner than later and make the switch.
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#775 DirtyHarry50

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 02:05 PM

What do you think about the CPU trade-off as a temporary thing?

Oh, and then there is the idea of looking at the Radeon 480 is it, which has 4GB of RAM I think? I'd have to go look at those again.

I keep thinking of more stuff! I still don't know how i am supposed to find a very cheap OEM copy of Windows 10 that is legal too. If that's not really possible I've got another 90 plus dollar expense to contend with.

Edit: okay, after doing some homework I have another 90 dollar expense to contend with.
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#776 DirtyHarry50

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 05:16 PM

Okay, this comes in close enough for openers. I can make improvements to this over time starting with the CPU as finances permit.

What do you guys think?

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i3-7100 3.9GHz Dual-Core Processor  ($119.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z270P-D3 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($110.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory  ($52.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Intel 600p Series 512GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive  ($169.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: MSI Radeon RX 480 4GB Video Card  ($174.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Fractal Design Core 2300 ATX Mid Tower Case  ($39.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: SeaSonic S12II 620W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply  ($60.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit  ($92.99 @ B&H)
Monitor: Asus VS24AH-P 24.0" 1920x1200 Monitor  ($219.85 @ Jet)
Total: $1042.76
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-01-29 18:09 EST-0500
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#777 macdude22

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 06:10 PM

View PostDirtyHarry50, on 29 January 2017 - 02:05 PM, said:

What do you think about the CPU trade-off as a temporary thing?

I would skimp somewhere else to get an i5, I'll mail you a temp drive. Who knows maybe it will meet your expectations. If you are currently coming from rust an SSHD only goes up from there.
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#778 DirtyHarry50

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 07:19 PM

View Postmacdude22, on 29 January 2017 - 06:10 PM, said:

I would skimp somewhere else to get an i5, I'll mail you a temp drive. Who knows maybe it will meet your expectations. If you are currently coming from rust an SSHD only goes up from there.

Alright, I can't refuse that then. Thanks so much. I'll send a message shortly with my snail mail address. With the expense of the SSD taken out of the picture, I can go with a nice i5 and get the DVD/CD RW drive too while still coming in just under budget for this first time in this exercise. That is awesome! I think I'm done and this should be a great start.

So this is the final build then sans drive:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-7500 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($201.89 @ B&H)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z270P-D3 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($110.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory  ($52.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: MSI Radeon RX 480 4GB Video Card  ($174.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Fractal Design Core 2300 ATX Mid Tower Case  ($39.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: SeaSonic S12II 620W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply  ($60.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS124-14 DVD/CD Writer  ($20.98 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit  ($92.99 @ B&H)
Monitor: Asus VS24AH-P 24.0" 1920x1200 Monitor  ($219.85 @ Jet)
Total: $975.65
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-01-29 20:17 EST-0500
“The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time.” — Bertrand Russell

#779 Cougar

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 08:17 PM

You can use eBay or Reddit's MS software swap to get a Windows license cheap. (~$40).

I also have a 275 GB SSD I was going to sell on eBay (Crucial MX300) I could sell you at a good price if you want. It's pretty new, I got it in September.

#780 Camper-Hunter

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 01:02 AM

Those half priced or less Windows keys aren't 100% legit, it's a grey area (these keys aren't for resale, typically MSDN (developers) keys). I say, either pay full price from Amazon or other seller, or get an even cheaper price, like here at $7.33. If your $7 key gets deactivated later in a few months for some reason, it's no big loss; at $40 you'll regret it.