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#61 PeopleLikeFrank

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Posted 20 October 2007 - 03:42 PM

View Postarchermitch, on October 20th 2007, 05:38 PM, said:

well, why are we so focused on integrated graphics? Can't we just get an upgradeable computer? I sort of assumed that every integrated graphics card was death row for gaming...

P.S. Thanks so much! In the beginning of the topic I was told $800 minimum for a low end computer... :) Cheers!

Because we are talking about a budget that's a little low for dedicated graphics. This is an upgradeable computer - the motherboards listed have integrated graphics, but also an expansion slot for a real graphics card.

But yes, you can take that computer and add a much-better-than-integrated card for $100, coming in under $800. Don't expect Crysis to run full bore on it, but it should handle most games decently.
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#62 archermitch

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Posted 20 October 2007 - 03:47 PM

hmm... Crysis is very low on my list of games to play. I can say bye-bye to it without hesitation. What's my most taxing game without Crysis?

Good. I'm glad I have that slot! I put my games on the lowest specs anyways. I've never had any trouble doing that... Hopefully the computer lasts with games in the future though. Any corners to cut price-wise? I'm strapped for cash. :)

What does the 360 use? It seems to run everything fine...

Edit: Oh god! Do I have to pay for a new monitor, mouse, and keyboard? That'll put me under another $200 bucks!
And how much memory will I have?

Re-Edit: I have a Mouse and Keyboard on hand, but the monitor must cost a bit. Does a monitor matter? I mean do you have to get a good one?

Editing: RE5 for PC? Eventually?
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#63 bobbob

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Posted 21 October 2007 - 01:12 PM

Quote

well, why are we so focused on integrated graphics? Can't we just get an upgradeable computer? I sort of assumed that every integrated graphics card was death row for gaming...
It does have the PCIe slot for another graphics card, as has been said, but the 690G is a decent integrated chip. It's about as fast as the X600s a few Macs had in recent generations, and it's something like 8x faster than the Mini's integrated graphics as shown in the benchmark I posted.

View Postarchermitch, on October 20th 2007, 02:47 PM, said:

Any corners to cut price-wise? I'm strapped for cash. :)
An Athlon 64-X2 5000+ instead of the 5600+ would save you ~$20 (look at the deals section on Newegg's page for the motherboard). A DVD reader instead of a writer would save you around $10. Smaller hard drives can drop up to $25. Slower RAM (DDR2-667) might save you about $10. A cheaper case and power supply could save you up to $80, but I would recommend a reputable power supply (PC Power& Cooling, OCZ, Seasonic (makers of the one in the Antec case), for example). If you try to save too much money...

I think you could make do with a case like this one, and a power supply like this one. That saves $30. I don't think that PSU could handle the top-of-the-line graphics cards, though.

Quote

What does the 360 use? It seems to run everything fine...
The CPU is pretty week, and its GPU is similar to a Geforce 7800. An 8600 would be about equivalent. It does have a tiny bit of very fast VRAM, though, and its D3D path is probably a little more optimised, so an 8800GTS would probably give enough extra oomph to definitely be faster.

Quote

Edit: Oh god! Do I have to pay for a new monitor, mouse, and keyboard? That'll put me under another $200 bucks!
And how much memory will I have? Re-Edit: I have a Mouse and Keyboard on hand, but the monitor must cost a bit. Does a monitor matter? I mean do you have to get a good one?
I'd get a monitor like this, and use Synergy to connect the keyboard and mouse to the PC or Mac but still use them on your other computer.  Or you could try a KVM, though you'd have to ask someone else how those work with a Mac. 2GB of RAM is listed above, but you could hit 4GB easily if you want. I wouldn't get less than 2GB.

Quote

Editing: RE5 for PC? Eventually?
RE4 for PC was horribly bad.

#64 archermitch

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Posted 21 October 2007 - 01:24 PM

what do you mean by cheaper power supply?

I know RE4 was terrible on PC, but if you hooked up a control pad to your comp? Besides maybe RE5 would be different.

What's the benefit of having a good monitor? Aren't they all the same.

As long as all the parts allow me to play the games on my list on the lowest specs and they're upgradeable. How does a cheaper power supply affect my gaming experience?

TY, for you help!

The An Athlon 64-X2 5000 is how much worse than the 5600?

I don't think I'll downgrade RAM. I will however get a cheaper case and power supply, depending on how they affect my gaming.

Depending on how small the memory gets I'll will downgrade the disk-space.

Edit:I seem to have assumed you showed me a high class monitor when in fact it isn't that pricey :P I'm not hooking it up to my Mac btw... I also seemed to misunderstand about hooking up the keyboard to my Mac. That sounds like a good cheap way to save $150! I think I'll do that I'll though my desk is very tiny and I'll have to move my whole rig...
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#65 archermitch

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Posted 21 October 2007 - 01:41 PM

So far I'm getting...

Base system with Newegg prices:
Core2Duo E4500														 $139.99
8600GT																	  $100
Antec Power Supply and Thermaltak Matrix Case			$100
Geil RAM, DDR2-800 2x1GB										  $57.99 
Lite-on DVD+/-R drive												  $25.99	[Price Cut: One that doesn't burn dvds.]
Maxtor hard drive, 250GB											  $57.99	[Price Cut: Smaller HD]
							   _______
Total:						 $481.96   [Mini costs $599]

Sounds good. I'll have to go to newegg.com and find a purchase suitable for those price-cuts...
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#66 archermitch

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Posted 21 October 2007 - 03:31 PM

Ok, but I also just realized that I'll b needing a copy of Windows XP, for sure, as well as an airport card. I'll look into price points on those via newegg...

I'll be suing the same monitor for my Mini and PC, so that saves $150

Also, Synergy seems to sync a mouse and keyboard to multiple monitors, but I have two mice and keyboards and one monitor. I need the opposite. :P So can I just attach both computers, keyboard, and mice to the same monitor?
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#67 archermitch

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Posted 21 October 2007 - 03:46 PM

Parts and Prices via Newegg.com
Core2Duo E4500												 $139.99
8600GT															  $100
Antec Power Supply and Thermaltak Matrix Case   $100
2xCorsair RAM, DDR2-667 1GB							 $49.98
Cheapest DVD drive											$16.99
hard drives														$37.99
Windows XP with SP2B 1 Pack							  $89.99
(possibly new monitor and airport card; 
still researching) 
_______
Total: $534.94

My monitor might not work with PCs. I mean, it wouldn't work with my Mac right now if I didn't buy a $100 cable...
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#68 bobbob

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Posted 21 October 2007 - 04:01 PM

Edit: covering more points

Quote

The An Athlon 64-X2 5000 is how much worse than the 5600?
15% or so, just like the difference in price.

Quote

I don't think I'll downgrade RAM.
Looking at it again, the CPU's FSB is 800MHz/it does 6400MB/s, and dual-channel DDR2-800 can do 12800 MB/s, so it's kind of a waste of money. DDR2-400 would work just as well.

Quote

How does a cheaper power supply affect my gaming experience?
It doesn't. Reading the article I linked to will show that cheap power supplies have a chance of burning out and taking the rest of your parts with them.

Quote

My monitor might not work with PCs. I mean, it wouldn't work with my Mac right now if I didn't buy a $100 cable
Is it DVI or VGA/D-SUB? There are a ton of different 8600GTs on NewEgg, and some have dual DVI, some have one DVI and one VGA, and some have just VGA. The one I linked has dual-DVI and 2 adapters for VGA monitors.

Quote

So can I just attach both computers, keyboard, and mice to the same monitor?
You'd need a KVM for that, and I have no experience with those. I have heard that they have quirks, though, so it might be best to just get another monitor to put beside your current one.

The cheapest hard drive at NewEgg is only 40GB, which would hold maybe 4-6 games plus windows (if you are lucky). I'd pay $9 more for a 160GB hard drive.  Since you're also buying a graphics card, there are cheaper motherboards you can get.

Hardware with Newegg prices:
Core2Duo E4500								  $139.99
[url="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157113"]motherboard[/url]									 $52.99
[url="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814186023"]8600GT[/url]										  $104.99  [-$20 mail in rebate]
Antec Power Supply and Thermaltake Matrix Case  $100
2x[url="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227058"]OCZ RAM, DDR2-667 1GB[/url]						 $48.98  = 2x$24.49 
[url="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106088"]Cheapest DVD drive[/url]							  $16.99
[url="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822145162"]hard drive[/url]									  $47.99
												_______
Total:										  $511.93  [$491.93 with mail in rebate - don't bank on it]


#69 archermitch

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Posted 21 October 2007 - 07:23 PM

[quote name='bobbob' post='329840' date='October 21st 2007, 03:01 PM']15% or so, just like the difference in price.[/quote]
I'll pay the extra $20
[quote name='bobbob' post='329840' date='October 21st 2007, 03:01 PM']Looking at it again, the CPU's FSB is 800MHz/it does 6400MB/s, and dual-channel DDR2-800 can do 12800 MB/s, so it's kind of a waste of money. DDR2-400 would work just as well.[/quote]
This is for the graphics card or the motherboard?
[quote name='bobbob' post='329840' date='October 21st 2007, 03:01 PM']It doesn't. Reading the article I linked to will show that cheap power supplies have a chance of burning out and taking the rest of your parts with them.[/quote]
I'll stick with the power supply I have now...
[quote name='bobbob' post='329840' date='October 21st 2007, 03:01 PM']Is it DVI or VGA/D-SUB? There are a ton of different 8600GTs on NewEgg, and some have dual DVI, some have one DVI and one VGA, and some have just VGA. The one I linked has dual-DVI and 2 adapters for VGA monitors.[/quote]
good, but I need a new monitor anyways... :(
[quote name='bobbob' post='329840' date='October 21st 2007, 03:01 PM']You'd need a KVM for that, and I have no experience with those. I have heard that they have quirks, though, so it might be best to just get another monitor to put beside your current one.[/quote]
That's what I'll end up doing...
[quote name='bobbob' post='329840' date='October 21st 2007, 03:01 PM']The cheapest hard drive at NewEgg is only 40GB, which would hold maybe 4-6 games plus windows (if you are lucky). I'd pay $9 more for a 160GB hard drive.  Since you're also buying a graphics card, there are cheaper motherboards you can get.[/quote]
I'll pay the extra 9 bucks...

[/quote]

Sigh... $511 would've been perfect if I didn't have to pay for Windows  XP as well as a monitor and an airport card... :(
Can sommeone shoot me a link to a cheap airport card.
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#70 PeopleLikeFrank

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Posted 21 October 2007 - 08:07 PM

Most monitors these days have multiple inputs, so it's possible to hook up two computers to a single monitor without extra hardware. You would still need to have two keyboards and two mice in this scenario (unless you're willing to unplug them and plug them into the computer  you're switching to each time). This way you could sell your old monitor to recoup some cost and save space. Just wanted to point out that you don't necessarily need two monitors, even without a KVM.
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#71 archermitch

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Posted 21 October 2007 - 08:19 PM

View Postnobody, on October 21st 2007, 07:07 PM, said:

Most monitors these days have multiple inputs, so it's possible to hook up two computers to a single monitor without extra hardware. You would still need to have two keyboards and two mice in this scenario (unless you're willing to unplug them and plug them into the computer  you're switching to each time). This way you could sell your old monitor to recoup some cost and save space. Just wanted to point out that you don't necessarily need two monitors, even without a KVM.
YES! That's what I wanted to  hear! I have 2 mice and 2 keyboards, but I don't mind switching cables each time...

What old monitor? Oh wait, you mean buy a new VGA monitor and sell this one? hhmmm.... my current monitor sells for 200 and I just invested $100 more on the DVI  to ADC cable to use with my Mini... I definitely DON't want another monitor...

Hardware with Newegg prices:
Core2Duo E4500 
$139.99
motherboard 
$52.99
8600GT 
$104.99 [-$20 mail in rebate]
Antec Power Supply and Thermaltake Matrix Case 
$100
2xOCZ RAM, DDR2-667 1GB 
$48.98 = 2x$24.49
Cheapest DVD drive 
$16.99
hard drive 
$47.99
Monitor
$149.99 $-300 from selling my old monitor my DVI to ADC cable = $150 profit!
Windows XP SP2
$89.99
_______
Total: $508.90 [-$20 with mail in rebate]

Sounds good! I looked up prices on amazon for how the cable and monitor will sell. they retain their value. I'll sell it cheap though so that I sell it quickly.
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#72 bobbob

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Posted 22 October 2007 - 01:45 AM

Here's an 802.11b/g adapter that got OK reviews on Newegg. Some of the cheaper ones look a lot flakier.

This Acer display looks pretty good and has 2 inputs.

If money really is that tight, skipping the Geforce 8600 and getting a cheaper card might be better. For example, here's a $75 Radeon x1650GT with a $10 mail-in rebate. Basically anything over $25 would probably beat the integrated graphics on any board you pick.

Oh, and this case looks better than the other one and comes with the same power supply.

#73 archermitch

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Posted 22 October 2007 - 08:30 AM

Thanks! I'm going to keep the graphics card until I need to cut the price because  I can afford it right now.

My current case to buy is this one. It's half the price and  has better reviews...

Hardware with Newegg prices:
Core2Duo E4500 
$139.99
motherboard 
$52.99
8600GT 
$104.99 [-$20 mail in rebate]
[url="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129035&Tpk=nsk-3480"]Antec Power Supply and Case [/url]
$100
2xOCZ RAM, DDR2-667 1GB 
$48.98 = 2x$24.49
Cheapest DVD drive 
$16.99
hard drive 
$47.99
[url="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009119"]Monitor[/url]
$169.99 $-300 from selling my old monitor my DVI to ADC cable = $150 profit!
Windows XP SP2
$89.99
[url="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833158017"]Wireless Adapter[/url]
$16.99

_______
Total: $508

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#74 bobbob

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Posted 22 October 2007 - 01:24 PM

View Postarchermitch, on October 22nd 2007, 07:30 AM, said:

My current case to buy is this one. It's half the price and  has better reviews...

It comes with the power supply, though, so it's basically the same price.

#75 archermitch

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Posted 22 October 2007 - 04:48 PM

View Postbobbob, on October 22nd 2007, 12:24 PM, said:

It comes with the power supply, though, so it's basically the same price.
consider it done. In the review they speak of fans. Will I have to buy those?
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#76 Dark_Archon

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Posted 22 October 2007 - 05:31 PM

Depends. The fans that come with the cases are generally cheap and loud. If you don't mind that, then no... unless they die on you which isn't an uncommon phenomenon with inexpensive cases.

Homebuilt PCs aren't quiet unless you plan them to be and buy the appropriate parts. Boxes from the big companies like Dell and HP tend to be fairly loud too(and Dell's cases rattle) ... at least compared to the current Macs.
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#77 archermitch

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Posted 22 October 2007 - 05:44 PM

I don't mind loud at all! I'm trying to think if there's anything else? I mean, I'm stoked to build my first pc, but I need to plan when I going to buy it and all... I guess I just need a time table and to speak with my consultant on money transfers...

Oh yeah, and I have to go to newegg and find all the links for the products I found so that I can purchase them... That'll take a while... Sigh...
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#78 archermitch

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Posted 22 October 2007 - 06:55 PM

Hardware with Newegg prices:
[url="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16819115031"]Core2Duo E4500[/url]
$139.99
[url="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157113"]Motherboard[/url]
$52.99
[url="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814186023"]8600GT[/url]
104.99
[url="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129035&Tpk=nsk-3480"]Antec Power Supply and Case[/url]
$100
[url="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227058"]Memory[/url]
$48.98 = 2x$24.49
[url="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106088"]Cheapest DVD drive[/url]
$16.99
[url="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822145162"]hard drive[/url]
$47.99
[url="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009119"]Monitor[/url]
$169.99 $-300 from selling my old monitor my DVI to ADC cable = $150 profit!
[url="http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Windows-Home-System-Builders/dp/B000JTFVME/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3/002-9737736-6350454?ie=UTF8&s=software&qid=1193100828&sr=8-3"]Windows XP SP2[/url]
$89.99
[url="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833158017"]Wireless Adapter[/url]
$16.99
_______
Total: $508

All done! wow, I feel so accomplished! I guess this is it, I'm ready for check out...
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#79 archermitch

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Posted 24 October 2007 - 08:22 AM

So, do I need extra tools to build something like this? Maybe a cable of some sort...?

Also, does the monitor have usb cables in the back? Otherwise I will just switch my mouse and keyboard when switching off computers...
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#80 PeopleLikeFrank

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Posted 24 October 2007 - 09:05 AM

View Postarchermitch, on October 24th 2007, 10:22 AM, said:

So, do I need extra tools to build something like this? Maybe a cable of some sort...?

Also, does the monitor have usb cables in the back? Otherwise I will just switch my mouse and keyboard when switching off computers...

You'll most likely get all the cables you need with the motherboard. That monitor doesn't come with USB ports.

[edit] looking at the motherboard, you get one SATA cable (for the HD) and one IDE (for the DVD), so you're good. You'll need a phillips screwdriver, but that should be it.
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