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Star Craft II


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#21 the Battle Cat

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 02:25 PM

View Postalldaveallen, on August 9th 2007, 09:18 AM, said:

It also reminds me how much more pleasant and civilized this site is than so many game sites...
Unpleasant and uncivilized people in the IMG Forums are interrogated and shot, though not necessarily in that order.
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#22 badger2d

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 02:42 PM

View Postthe Battle Cat, on August 9th 2007, 01:25 PM, said:

Unpleasant and uncivilized people in the IMG Forums are interrogated and shot, though not necessarily in that order.

"What's he gonna tell you?  'I'm dead'?!!"

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#23 Frost

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 03:29 PM

Having seen tBC's interrogation methods in action on hapless posters, I'll just say, trust me, you'd rather be shot first. :bleedingeyes:
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#24 badger2d

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 04:13 PM

View Postalldaveallen, on August 9th 2007, 09:18 AM, said:

*It's pretty crazy how fierce and vitriolic the debates over micromanagement (and its lessening or increasing) can get on the Battle.net forums.  A lot of people seem to feel that it's the heart of the original Starcraft.


It is insane, isn't it?  

My best conjecture as to how this comes about, is that it's a development of a superbly well-designed game with seriously inefficient controls (the controls were fine for the time, of course, but RTSes have developed further in ten years).  There's a set of players that have been dedicated enough to pour incalculable hours into the game, and through all that time they've developed the dexterity to compensate for the shortcomings of Starcraft's interface.  

With all that time invested in developing that skill, they can no longer see that more efficient controls will be good for the game, by allowing all players to focus more on tactics, which is the true meat of it.  All they see is the rest of the world being handed the ability to do some of the things in the second game that they spent countless hours practicing to be able to do in the first, and bam:  there's all your complaints about skill being removed, and Starcraft 2 being developed as a game for noobs, and all the rest of that buffoonery.

And it really is preposterous, because ultimately, what sets Starcraft aside as an RTS is the remarkable competitive balance of three unique and complex factions, and the richness of tactical decisions it allows in every single game.  Not a single one of those players would've bothered to spend all that time on the mechanical aspects if the core of the game weren't so sound.  And if they could remember that fact, they'd realize that better controls = more accessible gameplay = more players playing = better competition = more fun!

Quote

It also reminds me how much more pleasant and civilized this site is than so many game sites...

Fo' sheezy.

#25 zapranoth

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 07:57 PM

I agree with the comments on the bnet forum, and the ridiculous debates that rage there about "what makes SC great."

The supreme balance and variety of the game were really what did it for me.  And not too hard to be decent at SC, but very hard to be very good at it (like Virtua Fighter).  SC is, in my mind, one of three supreme masterpieces of all gaming history (Marathon and Myth are the other two  -- to me).

Well, Nethack is another supreme masterpiece, but it's comparing Picasso to Rembrandt, there.

I believe that SC 2 will be a modern equal to SC... and that, that is saying something.

I can hardly wait.  =)

PS:    The Zerg are not much done yet, that's why we haven't seen them much yet.
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Floor it.  That's technical talk."   - SRV

#26 Hoxtongue

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 08:11 PM

Thats whats interesting me because as much as the Terran and Protoss are fun to use, theres no feeling like sending a massive horde of zerglings that fill up your entire body count... even though they are all just fodder for any decent unit :P

#27 alldaveallen

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 08:39 PM

View Postbadger2d, on August 9th 2007, 03:13 PM, said:

It is insane, isn't it?  

My best conjecture as to how this comes about, is that it's a development of a superbly well-designed game with seriously inefficient controls (the controls were fine for the time, of course, but RTSes have developed further in ten years).  There's a set of players that have been dedicated enough to pour incalculable hours into the game, and through all that time they've developed the dexterity to compensate for the shortcomings of Starcraft's interface.

The QWERTY rule, in short.

It seems to me that Blizzard are (is?), if anything, doing more to make upper-level micromanaging PvP players happy, based on what they're saying publicly.  Things like the Phoenix fighter "glowing yarn ball" attack (no offense, tBC) having to be timed just right because the fighters are as weak as a drowned kitten right after, the multiple technology trees, the presence of new quick-striking units (Reapers, charging Zealots) etc. are probably just the tip of the spear that's stuck in the molehill on the iceberg of lightning-quick tactical decision making that will be required, if you know what I mean.

I have a feeling that they learned their lesson about how fast people can get to end-game skill levels (and then get bored) from WoW, and are attempting to build in the possibilities for all sorts of arcane and bizarre end-game strategies that will continue to have people scratching their heads for two decades, this time.

It's not like I worship Blizzard or anything (boy, was I PISSED when I heard "Ghost" was a console-only title), but I do really appreciate

A) the quality and depth of their games,

B) The fact that they support them forever,

C) their interest in, or at least graciousness toward, the obnoxious, ungrateful, and Monday-morning-quarterbacking gaming community (present company excepted, of course) and, for the gold star...

the sweet sweet Mac love they always dish out.