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EA Announces Mac Titles At WWDC


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#41 D-M.A.

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Posted 11 June 2007 - 10:35 PM

View Postmacdude22, on June 11th 2007, 10:52 PM, said:

This must be a blow to Aspyr, they typically port a lot of the EA games. I was expecting them to be doing the C&C port as well. However I have to say that seeing developers make the games cross platform in house is a refreshing change and probably the preferred method. I'd hate to see Aspyr go under, or something, but it might be the beginning of the end for Mac porting houses.

Ever since I tried to run Stubbs the Zombie on two different Macs both meeting the RECOMMENDED requirements for the game, I couldn't care less about Aspyr. EA has however tried to break into the Mac market before without much success, so I doubt they'll stick around that long this time either. But Need for Speed finally on the Mac, wheeeehoooohaaa!!! I'm definitely buying that one :-)

#42 Smoke_Tetsu

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Posted 11 June 2007 - 10:47 PM

You know what I wonder about? What exactly changed between when cider was announced and now that suddenly changes things in regards to how it works (or not). Perhaps no one was worrying about it before now because they thought not much was going to come of it?
--Tetsuo

Alex Delarg, A Clockwork Orange said:

It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen.

the Battle Cat said:

Slower and faster? I'm sorry to hear such good news?

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#43 devSin

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Posted 11 June 2007 - 10:57 PM

View Postfloam, on June 11th 2007, 09:30 PM, said:

Cider is not nearly as mystic as you might think. Remember, for the most part it's just Cedega (the difference being the publisher has the ability to alter the game or emulator a bit to fix bugs). You can go read up about it, look how well current windows games run in it, and even look at some of the source code. I'm not spouting bologna.
Not mystic, but all but one time Brad pressed for clarification, he was met with silence (the exception being one poster's experience with Uru). This leads me to believe that very few of the people who are actually talking about it have ever really experienced it. I'm not suggesting that it will perform terribly (or that I have any more experience with it than anyone else) -- I just can't get excited about wrapping up a Windows title so it can be launched under Mac OS X.

I don't know enough about the tech, so I'll take your word that it's not too heavily doctored from Cedega. I'm sure you'll forgive my lackluster motivation to hunt for recent AAA performance ratings for Cedega to get an idea of what to expect from EA's lackluster move back into the Mac market. ;)

View PostSmoke_Tetsu, on June 11th 2007, 09:47 PM, said:

You know what I wonder about? What exactly changed between when cider was announced and now that suddenly changes things in regards to how it works (or not). Perhaps no one was worrying about it before now because they thought not much was going to come of it?
Why would it matter at all how it does or doesn't work when nobody is actually using it? I did find their run to undercut the hard work of the traditional porting houses particularly odious, but again, who cares if nobody is actually using it?

#44 bobbob

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Posted 11 June 2007 - 11:06 PM

View PostdevSin, on June 11th 2007, 09:23 PM, said:

nobody here seems to really know anything about how well Cider actually works (not enough to actually clarify or qualify when pressed, at least)

Obviously, they think it makes X3 work well enough. Some thought it hurt HoMMV, but that's likely problems with HoMMV not Cider.

#45 NAG

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Posted 11 June 2007 - 11:35 PM

THe only Cider game I've played was Uru on my macbook. Note that the macbook isn't actually supported. I think it is okay. Could be better but at least we get games now.
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#46 Smoke_Tetsu

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Posted 12 June 2007 - 01:04 AM

View PostdevSin, on June 11th 2007, 10:57 PM, said:

Why would it matter at all how it does or doesn't work when nobody is actually using it? I did find their run to undercut the hard work of the traditional porting houses particularly odious, but again, who cares if nobody is actually using it?

I guess what I'm trying to say is were where all these complaints about Cider before? It seems like they are coming out of the woodwork just now that more big titles where announced to use it. Yet Cider hasn't changed just the fact that more games are going to be using it. But which would have been preferred.. Ciderized games or hardly any games at all. I actually wasn't asking about how well it works.

Also to be honest these 6 titles are just a drop compared to all the other games coming out to the PC this year and next year... EA isn't the only game in town after all. This was an interesting announcement and all... but it's still not totally a mac gaming resurgence.

But I would agree that most people who are talking about Cider now probably haven't experienced it and I have to admit I count myself in that group because I don't have an intel mac (I'm stuck on PowerPC for now). :P But I do know that for a lot of games it probably shouldn't be noticeable from a end user standpoint because of how most games use their own UI anyway.

Not that I am or have ever defended Transgaming.
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Alex Delarg, A Clockwork Orange said:

It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen.

the Battle Cat said:

Slower and faster? I'm sorry to hear such good news?

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#47 Brad Oliver

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Posted 12 June 2007 - 02:03 AM

View Postbobbob, on June 11th 2007, 10:06 PM, said:

Obviously, they think it makes X3 work well enough. Some thought it hurt HoMMV, but that's likely problems with HoMMV not Cider.

I've seen this claim about HoMMV being the culprit rather than Cider a few times. What's the basis for this belief?

I say this because since Cider is really WINE in a different package, it's clear to see from looking at WINE that you can have a WINE-like codebase run one game really well and another really poorly only because the usage pattern through the Win32 API is completely different between them.
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#48 Cyan421

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Posted 12 June 2007 - 02:39 AM

Obviously EA got a good deal on the cost of lisencesing Cider.  Cider gets some good inner industry advertising cause its product works on high dollar/sales titles.  EA sales more boxes with very little extra work.   Its good for buisness for both of these companies.  Is it good for MAC gamming in general?  Heck yes, whats gamming with games........

You guys sound like me when I won't listen to some band because they use the wrong kind of guitars or something pretentious like that.

#49 Janichsan

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Posted 12 June 2007 - 02:43 AM

View PostBrad Oliver, on June 12th 2007, 10:03 AM, said:

I've seen this claim about HoMMV being the culprit rather than Cider a few times. What's the basis for this belief?
Mainly the bugginess of the original Windows version of HoMM V. The very first version seemed to be notorious and later patches didn't succeed in eliminating all bugs or even brought new ones. I'd say it's possible that the combination of Cider and the existing bugs in the game amplifies the problem, though.

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#50 Tesseract

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Posted 12 June 2007 - 03:07 AM

View Postfloam, on June 12th 2007, 10:15 AM, said:

Cider? What a sorry excuse for a "port". These are just windows EXEs wrapped up in Wine. If this is the way Mac games are going, this is really frustrating. I thought the Intel switch was going to improve things! I sure hope Aspyr doesn't go down this route too.
I very much doubt that Aspyr or MacSoft have the resources to rewrite games to the extent that you appear to be suggesting that they do.

View PostBrad Oliver, on June 12th 2007, 06:03 PM, said:

I've seen this claim about HoMMV being the culprit rather than Cider a few times. What's the basis for this belief?

I say this because since Cider is really WINE in a different package, it's clear to see from looking at WINE that you can have a WINE-like codebase run one game really well and another really poorly only because the usage pattern through the Win32 API is completely different between them.
I guess which one is the culprit could depend on your point of view, then? :)

P.S. Brad, what are you doing up at this hour?  :o

#51 Brad Oliver

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Posted 12 June 2007 - 03:12 AM

View PostTesseract, on June 12th 2007, 02:07 AM, said:

I guess which one is the culprit could depend on your point of view, then? :)

Well, not really. ;) If the game exhibited roughly the same bugs in roughly the same manner on the Mac as the PC, then you can point to the game as the likely source. (That doesn't automatically absolve the Mac developer from the responsibility of fixing it, but it does make prioritizing easier.)
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#52 Smoke_Tetsu

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Posted 12 June 2007 - 03:12 AM

Has everyone forgot that this isn't the first time Transgaming has helped bring titles to the Mac? My copy of Tron 2.0 has a trangaming logo when it starts up for example. Direct3D was probably wrapped to OpenGL there.
--Tetsuo

Alex Delarg, A Clockwork Orange said:

It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen.

the Battle Cat said:

Slower and faster? I'm sorry to hear such good news?

Late 2012 27 inch iMac, Core i7 Quad 3.4GHz, 16GB RAM, Nvidia GeForce GTX 680MX 2GB, 3TB HDD - Mavericks

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#53 Tacohead

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Posted 12 June 2007 - 09:16 AM

View PostdevSin, on June 11th 2007, 09:57 PM, said:

Not mystic, but all but one time Brad pressed for clarification, he was met with silence (the exception being one poster's experience with Uru). This leads me to believe that very few of the people who are actually talking about it have ever really experienced it. I'm not suggesting that it will perform terribly (or that I have any more experience with it than anyone else) -- I just can't get excited about wrapping up a Windows title so it can be launched under Mac OS X.

For the record, when I commented about my experiences with Mac Uru I wasn't defending Cider. I'd rather have native ports as well, or even (gasp!) original development on Macs.

But I think it's important to point out that unlike the people who follow all this stuff most people aren't even aware of what Cider is or that it's being used. So when they see C&C 3 for Mac OSX, for example, on store shelves or wherever they'll buy it, install it, launch it, and play it without noticing anything. Whether this translates into enough sales of these games for EA to be satisfied is another story.

Personally, I'm interested in C&C 3, Tiger Woods, and Madden. I don't use Boot Camp so I will probably buy at least two of these, and maybe all three. I'm estatic and stunned about Madden because I never thought we'd see another Madden title on the Mac in a million years, Cider or not. I'm skeptical at how well it will sell based on Aspyr's experience with Madden 2000 but glad I'll have the latest version to play, without having to use Boot Camp, Parallels, VMWare, or an XBox (none of which I have or plan on getting).

So while native would be ideal, I'm not going to ignore Ciderized games if they're games that I really want and couldn't play them otherwise (like Madden 2008) and if their performance is acceptable.  Uru Mac's performance was acceptable so I have no reason to believe EA's Ciderized games won't be.  However, if the first one I buy runs horribly then I'll have reason.  :)

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#54 floam

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Posted 12 June 2007 - 09:54 AM

View PostTesseract, on June 12th 2007, 02:07 AM, said:

I very much doubt that Aspyr or MacSoft have the resources to rewrite games to the extent that you appear to be suggesting that they do.
Wait -- how do you think the current porting process works!?

Now I'm not directly familiar with how Aspyr does things, but I do know a guy both MacSoft and Aspyr have contracted. I can assure you, these games are all using OpenGL, in many instances even have new audio renderers written (and other components, especially in titles with a plenty-hot Middleware Hell), are ported "by hand" to build and work nicely on OS X, and are certainly building natively on the Mac.

#55 Huntn

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Posted 12 June 2007 - 09:56 AM

I did not want to start a new thread for this but here is a good MacWorld WWDC Keynote link.

#56 Nicholas

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Posted 12 June 2007 - 11:07 AM

Indeed - C&C 3 would be good (will be able to sell my PC copy then), as well as Tiger Woods.
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#57 Smoke_Tetsu

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Posted 12 June 2007 - 03:37 PM

View PostTacohead, on June 12th 2007, 09:16 AM, said:

For the record, when I commented about my experiences with Mac Uru I wasn't defending Cider. I'd rather have native ports as well, or even (gasp!) original development on Macs.
Good Luck with that. ;)

Quote

But I think it's important to point out that unlike the people who follow all this stuff most people aren't even aware of what Cider is or that it's being used. So when they see C&C 3 for Mac OSX, for example, on store shelves or wherever they'll buy it, install it, launch it, and play it without noticing anything. Whether this translates into enough sales of these games for EA to be satisfied is another story.
This is especially true since most in-game UI stuff is the games own GUI anyway.

Quote

Personally, I'm interested in C&C 3, Tiger Woods, and Madden. I don't use Boot Camp so I will probably buy at least two of these, and maybe all three. I'm estatic and stunned about Madden because I never thought we'd see another Madden title on the Mac in a million years, Cider or not. I'm skeptical at how well it will sell based on Aspyr's experience with Madden 2000 but glad I'll have the latest version to play, without having to use Boot Camp, Parallels, VMWare, or an XBox (none of which I have or plan on getting).
Same here except replace Madden with Need For Speed and uh.. Tiger Woods with Harry Potter for me. *ducks* ;)

Quote

So while native would be ideal, I'm not going to ignore Ciderized games if they're games that I really want and couldn't play them otherwise (like Madden 2008) and if their performance is acceptable.  Uru Mac's performance was acceptable so I have no reason to believe EA's Ciderized games won't be.  However, if the first one I buy runs horribly then I'll have reason.  :)

And I have a reason to look forward to getting myself an intel mac. :P
--Tetsuo

Alex Delarg, A Clockwork Orange said:

It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen.

the Battle Cat said:

Slower and faster? I'm sorry to hear such good news?

Late 2012 27 inch iMac, Core i7 Quad 3.4GHz, 16GB RAM, Nvidia GeForce GTX 680MX 2GB, 3TB HDD - Mavericks

Late 2009 27 inch iMac, Core i5 2.6GHz, 12GB RAM, ATI Radeon 4850HD 512MB, 1TB HDD - Mavericks

Mac Mini, PowerPC G4 1.4Ghz, 1GB RAM, Radeon 9200 32MB, 256GB HDD - Leopard

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#58 Rev-O

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Posted 12 June 2007 - 07:21 PM

I've only run Uru and X as Cider titles. Uru was as beta and I wasn't that thrilled with the game so I didn't play it much. X seems solid enough tho.

I'm thinking that a bunch of the Cider friction arises from Cider being Intel only. Cider isn't the only game in town, sure, but it is becoming more popular and that makes the end closer and sooner for PPC Macs. If I didn't have a MBP I'd be tied to the Tree of Woe with my G5 and it's lack of Cider support. So far no Cider game has been a must have for me, but I think it is only a matter of time before this happens.

#59 Endymion

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Posted 12 June 2007 - 07:44 PM

View PostSmoke_Tetsu, on June 12th 2007, 03:04 AM, said:

I guess what I'm trying to say is were where all these complaints about Cider before? It seems like they are coming out of the woodwork just now that more big titles where announced to use it. Yet Cider hasn't changed just the fact that more games are going to be using it.

Where the heck were you last year? This board and others were aflame with people going off on Cider the day it was announced without a single title in development yet named. I would expect none of the hand-wringing matters if the game in question runs well.

#60 teflon

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Posted 12 June 2007 - 08:22 PM

i think the main thing with Cider was that it was exciting then nothing happened for a long time, and now things are starting to finally happen again.

if the game runs well, then i dont care about the technology behind it. If the game runs poorly and it shouldnt then ill care.
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