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MBP w/ DX10?


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#21 Quicksilver

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Posted 26 July 2007 - 07:47 PM

View Postbobbob, on July 26th 2007, 08:27 PM, said:

Just like OSX doesn't on those older Mac Books and Mac Book Pros. There's a technical problem that causes it, namely that some of the 32bit addresses are needed for devices and aren't mapped to RAM, so there's no 32bit addresses left to use for some of the RAM. A 64bit OS wouldn't have that, except for some things that require an IOMMU that the new Intel processors are mostly lacking.

Wasn't that issue a byproduct of the motherboard they used?
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#22 Huntn

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Posted 27 July 2007 - 12:01 PM

View PostQuicksilver, on July 26th 2007, 08:21 PM, said:

Unless I've been living in a black hole for several picoseconds (= several years for the outside world), the rule of thumb for good performance is currently 1 GB of RAM for Windows XP and Mac OS X, and 2 GB for Vista.  If you're a gamer, I always tell people to tack on an extra gigabyte.  However, be careful with Windows--while the 32-bit versions of XP and Vista can *technically* address up to 4 GB of RAM, they've been known to have a lot of problems with systems equipped with 4 GB (the most common problem that I've heard of is that Windows doesn't see all of the RAM in the system).

Intel problem or Vista problem or both? For the latest super-duper OS from MS I'd say that's kind of sorry.

#23 Janichsan

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Posted 27 July 2007 - 12:05 PM

View PostHuntn, on July 27th 2007, 08:01 PM, said:

Intel problem or Vista problem or both? For the latest super-duper OS from MS I'd say that's kind of sorry.
Vista problem. Just one of the reason why most people who have a choice wait for the Vista SP1 before even thinking about buying it.

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#24 Quicksilver

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Posted 27 July 2007 - 12:41 PM

View PostJanichsan, on July 27th 2007, 01:05 PM, said:

Vista problem. Just one of the reason why most people who have a choice wait for the Vista SP1 before even thinking about buying it.

It's not just a Vista problem--there are a wide variety of problems that you can enjoy if you put 4 GB of RAM into a system running Windows XP. ;)
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#25 Huntn

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Posted 28 July 2007 - 08:35 PM

View PostQuicksilver, on July 25th 2007, 01:24 PM, said:

There's a thing in the options menu that says something like, "FPS View."  Turn that on, and it'll show framerate.  If you can't find it (I think it's pretty brainless), let me know.  I can't imagine that the X1300 will do well at resolutions above 640x480, but I've been known to be wrong. ;)

Well, it might have been a fantasy on my part (the new X1300 card), got it installed on the P4 and the Lost Planet demo (DX9) went from not running at all to running like crapola.  Every time I take two steps the game tells me that current settings are not adequate to run the game and to go to my PC Settings. But half the video settings are greyed out including the one that would allow me to reduce the resolution. I assume if they are grey they are not active. Pretty simple looking shooter with some interesting video effects when you turn, maybe because I'm turning in slow motion but it looks like the game is doing some kind of video blur when you turn. So it makes me wonder what else is happening behind the scenes. I've cranked up Oblivion and was happy to see that it reported auto configuring my video settings to high. I'm going to go ride around and see if the outdoor-stutters are still there. I'm wondering now how UT3 is going to do. That may trigger my PC upgrade but I don't really want to until the Vista driver debacle is worked out.

#26 Quicksilver

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Posted 28 July 2007 - 09:29 PM

Your performance woes are not surprising in the least (I mean, your card is nearly half the speed of my old slow 6600GT).  Lost Planet is extremely demanding, and looks better than anything I've played to date when you turn everything up (even in DX9 mode).  Most of horsepower is going into wild-looking explosions and weather effects, and I believe the demo is a bit slower than the real game (it's not fully updated).  As far as the framerate warnings go, I have an option to turn those warnings off--maybe you don't.

Anyway, if you're interested in checking out the game more fully, try the video review at Gametrailers.com.  Don't buy all of their "this game is too hard, linear, and boring" criticism--they exaggerate it too much.  I actually liked the cutscenes--the voice acting is excellent.  In all, Lost Planet is a pretty unique take on the first/third person shooter genre, and I look forward to buying a system with the successor to the 8800 series to play it (and Bioshock) in DX10.
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#27 Huntn

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Posted 28 July 2007 - 09:48 PM

View PostQuicksilver, on July 28th 2007, 10:29 PM, said:

Anyway, if you're interested in checking out the game more fully, try the video review at Gametrailers.com.  Don't buy all of their "this game is too hard, linear, and boring" criticism--they exaggerate it too much.  I actually liked the cutscenes--the voice acting is excellent.  The game is a pretty unique take on the first/third person shooter genre, and I look forward to buying a system with the successor to the 8800 series to play it (and Bioshock) in DX10.

I wonder when the successor to the 8800 will appear? I'm currently holding off on purchasing a MBP until I'm sure it will be able to handle the new games and preferably DX10. What threw me off a little is how well this P4 system handles both HL2 and Oblivion. Surely I thought a new shooter would not put it in that much of a bind. Until Lost Planet, I had complete choice of what I wanted to play.

BTW, the ATI X1300 does an outstanding job with Oblivion. When it detected the card it put the game settings to "high". And at basically the same settings I had before outdoor-stutters are less, but not completely gone. This is with the grass view distance about 40%. And all of the colors are richer making the "world" look even better. The world did look a bit washed out with the old card 9800 Pro. Even the load screens that show illustrations look better. So the purchase was not a total loss. I just did not want to spend a lot of money on a new card for a system that can't hack something like Crysis and DX10. :)

#28 bobbob

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Posted 28 July 2007 - 11:16 PM

View PostJanichsan, on July 27th 2007, 11:05 AM, said:

Vista problem. Just one of the reason why most people who have a choice wait for the Vista SP1 before even thinking about buying it.

No, the 'invisible RAM' problem is not. It's a problem for OSX on older MacBooks, it's a problem for any 32b version of OSX, etc.

#29 Quicksilver

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Posted 29 July 2007 - 08:56 AM

View PostHuntn, on July 28th 2007, 10:48 PM, said:

I wonder when the successor to the 8800 will appear? I'm currently holding off on purchasing a MBP until I'm sure it will be able to handle the new games and preferably DX10. What threw me off a little is how well this P4 system handles both HL2 and Oblivion. Surely I thought a new shooter would not put it in that much of a bind. Until Lost Planet, I had complete choice of what I wanted to play.

MacBook Pros aren't going to be able to handle DX10 stuff for 18-24 months, in my estimation.  DX10 is cutting edge, and therefore will be limited to high-end desktop GPUs until their horsepower filters down into the midrange product line.  Apple usually sticks with the same old graphics card for at least a year longer than they should (just look at the X1600--that should've been replaced with a 7600 Go when the did the Core 2 update), so if you need a MBP, I'd buy one now while they're all new and shiny.

If the only modern shooters you've played are the original Half Life 2 and Oblivion, you've actually managed to fake yourself out.  Your system would be slaughtered by Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory and GRAW (not to mention SC: Double Agent and GRAW 2).  Those games are the logical stepping stone between your early DX9 stuff and DX10.
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#30 Huntn

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Posted 29 July 2007 - 08:49 PM

View PostQuicksilver, on July 29th 2007, 09:56 AM, said:

If the only modern shooters you've played are the original Half Life 2 and Oblivion, you've actually managed to fake yourself out.  Your system would be slaughtered by Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory and GRAW (not to mention SC: Double Agent and GRAW 2).  Those games are the logical stepping stone between your early DX9 stuff and DX10.

Imagine that. :) And UT2k4 which is not new by any means but kinds still seems new. If I thought the new games like Crysis will continue to support DX9, that would be ok with me as I'll be upgrading the PC to DX10 capabilities in the near future (9 months) I may stick with the MBP purchase after Leopard comes out, otherwise I can wait and entertain myself with old games... until MBPs get more DX10 capable. Last thing I want to do is pony up for a new MBP and be disappointed.

#31 Quicksilver

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Posted 29 July 2007 - 10:03 PM

View PostHuntn, on July 29th 2007, 09:49 PM, said:

Otherwise, I can wait and entertain myself with old games... until MBPs get more DX10 capable. Last thing I want to do is pony up for a new MBP and be disappointed.

*sigh*

You may be waiting until DX11 comes out.  It really seems like you're trying to buy the MacBook Pro for a purpose other than what I was created for.  It's not meant to be a gaming system, and unless someone manages to tattoo a Halo logo across Steve's forehead, it never will be.  Think of it as a gaming supplement.
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#32 Huntn

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Posted 30 July 2007 - 06:04 AM

View PostQuicksilver, on July 29th 2007, 11:03 PM, said:

*sigh*

You may be waiting until DX11 comes out.  It really seems like you're trying to buy the MacBook Pro for a purpose other than what I was created for.  It's not meant to be a gaming system, and unless someone manages to tattoo a Halo logo across Steve's forehead, it never will be.  Think of it as a gaming supplement.

No need to sigh. I assume the cards will be bumped up as time goes by well before DX11. I will be using a MBP before I ever buy a PC laptop and besides as I've been hearing (and saying although I'm no authority) Vista right now seems to be quite screwed up so if the PC folks can't get good performance on hardware, it would follow that it would be tough to get good performance out of the Mac running Vista. But wouldn't it be ironic if the Macs settled down with Vista first? ;)

#33 LoneIgadzra

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Posted 30 July 2007 - 09:21 AM

Anyone know if, to install new versions of the Boot Camp drivers in Windows, you first have to uninstall the old ones?
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#34 Quicksilver

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Posted 30 July 2007 - 12:05 PM

Nope.  Just throw in the new disc, and the Boot Camp installer will take care of the rest.
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#35 LoneIgadzra

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 09:35 AM

Au contraire. It seemed to work for a little bit, then all sorts of things started malfunctioning, including the iSight. Looked in add/remove programs and there's like three different drivers listed for everything. Many programs mysteriously failed to start, such as Firefox. Tried to reinstall Boot Camp drivers, but couldn't get the uninstallers to work no matter what I tried. (Complete bullpopsnizzle really - they kept coming back, and some wouldn't uninstall unless I was in safe mode, some wouldn't uninstall in safe mode, and clicking "change remove" on the "Macintosh Drivers" entry just reinstalled everything. WTF Apple! Clicking that means I want to UNINSTALL!) Ended up formatting my Windows partition, and now I don't have the ATI control panel installed for some reason (can't remember if I unchecked it like an idiot) so there's no way to set it to not stretch non-widescreen resolutions. GAH.
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#36 Huntn

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 11:35 AM

View PostLoneIgadzra, on August 7th 2007, 10:35 AM, said:

Au contraire. It seemed to work for a little bit, then all sorts of things started malfunctioning, including the iSight. Looked in add/remove programs and there's like three different drivers listed for everything. Many programs mysteriously failed to start, such as Firefox. Tried to reinstall Boot Camp drivers, but couldn't get the uninstallers to work no matter what I tried. (Complete bullpopsnizzle really - they kept coming back, and some wouldn't uninstall unless I was in safe mode, some wouldn't uninstall in safe mode, and clicking "change remove" on the "Macintosh Drivers" entry just reinstalled everything. WTF Apple! Clicking that means I want to UNINSTALL!) Ended up formatting my Windows partition, and now I don't have the ATI control panel installed for some reason (can't remember if I unchecked it like an idiot) so there's no way to set it to not stretch non-widescreen resolutions. GAH.

Question about Boot Camp-
Installing Boot Camp partitions your drive and at some point wants to install Windows correct?
Can you install Windows and then interact with it before Boot Camp installs the Windows drivers or is it one big step?

For uninstalling drivers, why not do that within Windows- are they recognized? Select My Computer, the one accessed from the Start menu, not the alias on the desktop, right click it to access properties, and select Device Manager and see what is there in the way of drivers for whatever Boot Camp has installed.

This is why a utility like True Image would be a must. Once you get Windows setup the way you want, take a picture of it for a fast restore to something you know that works. Ok, I have not had a chance to try True Image with a Windows partition on a Mac, but theoretically it should work.

Another question might bee- Can you use Toast to accomplish the same thing as True Image?

#37 Dark_Archon

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 12:45 PM

Boot Camp doesn't install Windows drivers, it gives you a driver CD. If you want, you can go elsewhere for all the drivers, assuming you know where to look.
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#38 LoneIgadzra

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 01:21 PM

Well, the device manager uninstall method worked, but it turns out the Boot Camp 1.3 ATI drivers simply don't include the control panel. Which means there is no way to make non-widescreen resolutions not stretched. Awesome.

Edit: Catalyst control center can't fix this either, and the check box in ATI TrayTools doesn't work.
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#39 teflon

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 04:13 PM

wouldnt a work around to this be to simply use a widescreen resolution??

what are you trying to do, may i ask?
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#40 Huntn

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 05:06 PM

View Postteflon, on August 7th 2007, 05:13 PM, said:

wouldnt a work around to this be to simply use a widescreen resolution??

what are you trying to do, may i ask?

And Igadzra, what kind of computer you have?

BTW, this might be too simple, but in Windows did you open the Display Control Panel (Start Menu/Control Panels) and adjust your display there? Maybe it is that simple. :lol: