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#1 dojoboy

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Posted 08 May 2007 - 07:09 AM

Okay, what made/makes Starcraft so good?  Obviously, I've never played it.  But, outside of traditional RTS features, was there anything exceptional about Starcraft?  Or, is it just nostalgia that powers its popularity?
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#2 Janichsan

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Posted 08 May 2007 - 08:49 AM

It was the first RTS that featured three really different species that require completely different strategies - both to play and to fight against (something that even modern RTS tend to neglect - yes, AoE III and C&C 3, I mean you). Still, it was very well balanced.

In addition, I seem to remember that StarCraft was the first RTS (or maybe even the first game at all) to feature a decent online match-making service.

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#3 Tesseract

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Posted 08 May 2007 - 08:56 AM

It's not just nostalgia. The presentation is excellent; the graphics were amazing at the time, and still look pretty good today. But mostly, its strength is that it is extremely well balanced. There is great variety in the abilities of the units across the three races, but everything can be countered.

#4 Mister Mumbles

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Posted 08 May 2007 - 09:37 AM

View PostTesseract, on May 8th 2007, 07:56 AM, said:

...but everything can be countered.

I should have kept that in mind when I played a few matches last night. I'm sooo out of practice. In one game a Terran player made mincemeat out of me because I didn't give much thought at all to building scourge (little flying explodable bombs of sorts). One could think the Zerg somewhat weak on the air side, but they're really not. It just comes down to: Are you building the right mix of units?

For a ten-year old game it's still going strong. That alone speaks for itself.
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#5 dojoboy

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Posted 08 May 2007 - 09:57 AM

So, is there any diplomacy, economics, etc?
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#6 Sharky

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Posted 08 May 2007 - 10:05 AM

Nope. It's standard RTS fare, a la Warcraft or C&C.

#7 Mister Mumbles

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Posted 08 May 2007 - 10:11 AM

Just better. ;)

I never could find much love for the hero units in Warcraft 3.
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#8 dojoboy

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Posted 08 May 2007 - 10:12 AM

View PostSharky, on May 8th 2007, 12:05 PM, said:

Nope. It's standard RTS fare, a la Warcraft or C&C.


:(

I'm going to need a bit more than that, especially since I've got RoN.  Thanks for the reply.
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#9 WSTE_M

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Posted 08 May 2007 - 03:02 PM

Ill take a shot...

Well first of all, it was the first RTS to have three races, to have a queue in the production line, the greatest graphics etc.

What made it was however (in my book) the difference of the races, the precision/quality of the units, and the balance.
Yes most games offer a difference in nations or races or what-cha-call-it, but in Starcraft, the races are totaly different. There are apart from the workers no units that are doubles among the races, so each race has different tactics. In RoN, AoEIII or C&C-G theere differences between the factions, but not much. In C&C all nations have tanks, all nations have artillery, etc.
also, in SC you can use different tactics for each of the nations; as terran you can bet on say, using either ballistic nukes, or battlcecruisers to blast the other guy. As a zerg, you can either use a massive assault of light units (Zerglings and Hydra's), or use a few strong ones (Ultralisks...)... Furthermore, there are no "super units" each unit has a strenght and a weakness. Terran siege tanks (an artilery piece) for instance, are great versus ranged units, but are terrible versus meele units, some of which are the cheapest in the game.
Buildings are also different for each race, so as a terran, your buildings can fly, so you can take off, and relocate your base if you want to move closer to resources etc. A Zerg's buildings are cheap, and almost expendable, while a Protoss's buildings are expensive, and cant move, but are heavily armoured.

RoN and C&C are games in which you simply must get as much ahead of the other guy as you can, and roll over him with all of your units. it doesent matter if he is an age ahead, or has some unique technology if you outnumber his units enouth. In SC you really play a game of paper-rock-scissors.

Hope this rambling helps :)

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#10 morback

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Posted 08 May 2007 - 09:04 PM

Strange that noone mentions the campaign...
+great storyline
+heroes
+outside/inside ("survival")scenarios
+soundtrack / ambience
+blizzard humor
+truly different species (brute force, technology, mass)

The feel is just incredible. I picked it up a couple of weeks back and almost went through both campains in a single run. An amazingly immersive game even after all these years and black stripes on each side of the screen (locked resolution)...

I sure hope what's coming is up to the first installement. I'm very curious. I want to see my marines tear some Ultralisks apart...(and vice versa...)

#11 Dark_Archon

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Posted 08 May 2007 - 09:41 PM

I'm hoping for a Starcraft 2 with a forth race(Zerg/Protoss hybrid from the secret mission), no less than a 200 supply limit, more units for each race, more buildings for each race, and no heroes in skirmishes. Heroes would be ok for the campaign, or "use map settings" games, but don't seem to work for regular games.
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#12 Frost

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Posted 08 May 2007 - 11:32 PM

View PostPegasus, on May 8th 2007, 11:11 AM, said:

Just better. ;)

I never could find much love for the hero units in Warcraft 3.
Ditto. Upkeep and heroes were the downfall of WC3 for me. No upkeep god dangit. If you can afford a massive army, then you have a massive army. Too bad for the other players for not harassing it and wearing you down. Nobody ever amasses huge armies in C&C: Generals Zero Hour to attack me with and there's no upkeep. Mostly because I'm bombing the crap out of them the whole game.

And the heroes, egh. C&C style heroes I can live with and even grow to love. Highly useful specialist units, but not one man armies. Colonel Burton and his C&C: Tiberian Dawn spiritual predecessor could carve chunks out of another player, but if they get surrounded or outmaneuvered, they're toast, for example, and quickly. Leveled up WC3 heroes can just decimate an army. Sorry, but that's silly, not to mention extremely annoying.

WC3 was also fugly. They went fully 3D too early and the 10 polygon models prove it.

As for StarCraft, I loved it because it was well-balanced (especially once Brood War came along with the Medics and Valkyries and the Terrans stopped being raped), well-executed, and just downright fun to play. It was fast-paced, but not good-freakin-grief-fast like WarCraft, while also not yawn-slow like C&C can get at some points. Just that fun there's-always-some-action fast.

Not to mention that, while balanced, all 3 sides were very unique. They all played very differently from each other. C&C: Generals has 3 well-balanced sides, but they all use the same basic play dynamics, just with minor modifications and weaker/stronger more expensive/less expensive units. Playing the Protoss was wholly different from playing the Terrans which was wholly different from playing the Zerg.
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#13 Eric5h5

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 12:29 AM

View PostDark_Archon, on May 8th 2007, 11:41 PM, said:

I'm hoping for a Starcraft 2 with a forth race(Zerg/Protoss hybrid from the secret mission), no less than a 200 supply limit, more units for each race, more buildings for each race, and no heroes in skirmishes.

Yep, except for the "more units/buildings".  Personally I think there are enough as it is, and I'm not sure more would really make the game better.

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#14 Tesseract

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 02:08 AM

View PostWSTE_M, on May 9th 2007, 07:02 AM, said:

There are apart from the workers no units that are doubles among the races, so each race has different tactics.
Even the workers are different. Drones are consumed when they build structures, SCVs have to work on structures the whole time they are being built, and Probes simply have to start teleporting the building in, after which they can go do something else while it finishes. Protoss are thus the fastest at creating buildings, while Zerg make up for it by being able to churn out troops very quickly, and Terrans are in between in both respects.

#15 Stefan@Mac

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 02:10 AM

I'd like to throw in my two cents:
As an absolut SC starter, I bought it yesterday evening as an electronic download for EUR 10,- and am absolutely amazed. I seldom have played a game with gameplay that elegant and smooth, SC seems to be a true masterpiece.
What is even more amazing for a game that old, is the fact that there will be an update 1.15 in a few weeks and further more an official statement that SC will be "revisited" and updated to current MacOS X systems shortly - cudos, Blizzard!
Can't wait to get home from office to continue the SC campaign ...

PS: Does anyone know where to buy Brood War for Mac at the moment?

#16 No One

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 02:22 AM

View PostWSTE_M, on May 8th 2007, 02:02 PM, said:

Well first of all, it was the first RTS to have three races, to have a queue in the production line, the greatest graphics etc.

Actually, Total Annihilation had the ability to queue an unlimited number of units for construction (Both in factories and construction units). TA was also released before SC.

The graphics part could also be disputed, although TA had 2D terrain (With 3D height mapping) it had fully 3D units. Gave movement a very smooth look.

#17 dojoboy

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 05:12 AM

View PostDark_Archon, on May 8th 2007, 11:41 PM, said:

I'm hoping for a Starcraft 2 with a forth race(Zerg/Protoss hybrid from the secret mission), no less than a 200 supply limit, more units for each race, more buildings for each race, and no heroes in skirmishes. Heroes would be ok for the campaign, or "use map settings" games, but don't seem to work for regular games.


It seems there is some thought that the new game will be a SC MMO.  I won't be playing it fi this is true.  But, from what everyone's saying here, I'm gonna have to pickup SC.

Does anyone know if SC can be digitally downloaded?  I've not been successful finding an online store and Blizzard just has the box version.  Well, I think I may purchase it from them (BattleChest).
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#18 Janichsan

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 07:11 AM

View Postdojoboy, on May 9th 2007, 01:12 PM, said:

Does anyone know if SC can be digitally downloaded?  I've not been successful finding an online store and Blizzard just has the box version.  Well, I think I may purchase it from them (BattleChest).
Since Starcraft comes on a PC/Mac hybrid CD, you probably can walk into any games store around you and pick it up for ten bucks.

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#19 Stefan@Mac

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 07:46 AM

View Postdojoboy, on May 9th 2007, 01:12 PM, said:

...

Does anyone know if SC can be digitally downloaded?  I've not been successful finding an online store and Blizzard just has the box version.  Well, I think I may purchase it from them (BattleChest).
Well, I bought it as a download from here: http://www.arktis.de...703_detail.html .

#20 Tacohead

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 10:11 AM

View PostStefan@Mac, on May 9th 2007, 06:46 AM, said:

Well, I bought it as a download from here: http://www.arktis.de...703_detail.html .

Is this version in English and can it be purchased if from the USA?

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