Jump to content


Beyond the Red Line


  • Please log in to reply
58 replies to this topic

#41 nagromme

nagromme

    Master Blaster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1954 posts

Posted 12 April 2007 - 01:00 PM

True. The female squadron leader usually yells at me for my incompetence after the mining mission. But once when I was REALLY incompetent, she was dead so a different voice was yelling at me :)

My court-martials and my kills are about even I think...

#42 paulc

paulc

    Fanatic

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 113 posts

Posted 12 April 2007 - 01:31 PM

BTW, y'all might want to get on their forum at:

http://www.game-warden.com/forum

There are 4 or 5 user created SP missions to extend the usefulness of the  2 short demo missions posted there.

Jeeze, I'm usually totally bad at this hand-eye thing and tend to get overwhelmed easier than the young bucks... but I have yet to die, get court marshalled  OR yelled at.

#43 Frost

Frost

    Secretary of Offense

  • Forum Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6075 posts
  • Steam ID:CaptFrost
  • Location:Republic of Texas
  • Pro Member:Yes

Posted 12 April 2007 - 04:04 PM

View Postnagromme, on April 12th 2007, 02:00 PM, said:

True. The female squadron leader usually yells at me for my incompetence after the mining mission. But once when I was REALLY incompetent, she was dead so a different voice was yelling at me :)

My court-martials and my kills are about even I think...
Jeez, man, I played that at about 3-5 FPS (those asteroids are MURDER on a G4 CPU) and almost ran out of ammo just killing a few Cylons and even then I didn't get bitched at. What the frak are you doing, nugget? :lol:
Kestrel (Falcon NW Tiki) – 4.0 GHz i7 4790K / 16GB RAM / 512GB Samsung 950 Pro M.2, 2x480GB Intel 730 (RAID0), 10TB STX BarraCuda Pro / GeForce GTX TITAN X 12GB
Iridium (MacBook Pro Mid-2012) – 2.7 GHz i7 3820QM / 16GB RAM / 2TB Samsung 850 Pro / GeForce GT 650M 1GB

Eric5h5:
When there's a multiplayer version, I'm going to be on Frost's team. Well, except he doesn't seem to actually need a team...I mean, what's the point? "Hey look, it's Frost and His Merry Gang of Useless Hangers-On!" Or something.

#44 SpaceMonkey

SpaceMonkey

    Fan

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 19 posts

Posted 14 April 2007 - 01:41 PM

View PostFrost, on April 12th 2007, 06:04 PM, said:

Jeez, man, I played that at about 3-5 FPS (those asteroids are MURDER on a G4 CPU)

Ditto.  I was excited at how well it was running on my PowerBook, but then I got to the asteroids.  :bleedingeyes:

#45 Frost

Frost

    Secretary of Offense

  • Forum Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6075 posts
  • Steam ID:CaptFrost
  • Location:Republic of Texas
  • Pro Member:Yes

Posted 14 April 2007 - 10:15 PM

View PostSpaceMonkey, on April 14th 2007, 02:41 PM, said:

Ditto.  I was excited at how well it was running on my PowerBook, but then I got to the asteroids.  :bleedingeyes:
Yeah, that's about the gist of it. All is not lost, however. There are 4 coop multiplayer levels, which you can play by yourself. Two of them (Raider Gauntlet and Viper Gauntlet) have NO asteroids and are glass smooth on my G4 even at maxed out detail.

Surviving is a real challenge. They start out easy as hell with the enemy Alpha Squadron, but by the time you get to Mike and Nebula squadrons... holy frick. It is a real FIGHT just to stay alive.

My current record is 63 kills, after killing all but three of one of the toughest waves there is (Jack, Kilo, Limbo, Mike, and Nebula all attack at once, with 4 ships from each... and when you destroy each 4 a further 4 spawn from that same squadron and you must kill those as well to achieve victory over that wave). If anyone gets further than that, I'd love to hear how you did it.

Better yet, I'd love to hear if there's actually an end. Don't want to finally beat Zulu only to be started back over at Alpha again. :lol:
Kestrel (Falcon NW Tiki) – 4.0 GHz i7 4790K / 16GB RAM / 512GB Samsung 950 Pro M.2, 2x480GB Intel 730 (RAID0), 10TB STX BarraCuda Pro / GeForce GTX TITAN X 12GB
Iridium (MacBook Pro Mid-2012) – 2.7 GHz i7 3820QM / 16GB RAM / 2TB Samsung 850 Pro / GeForce GT 650M 1GB

Eric5h5:
When there's a multiplayer version, I'm going to be on Frost's team. Well, except he doesn't seem to actually need a team...I mean, what's the point? "Hey look, it's Frost and His Merry Gang of Useless Hangers-On!" Or something.

#46 paulc

paulc

    Fanatic

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 113 posts

Posted 15 April 2007 - 07:16 AM

Wow, AI opponents on a multi-player level. Cool.

Along with some AI friendlies, no less. I wondered if they were others joining my "game" but they were there right from the beginning, so have to be AI controlled.

Love to hear  some strategies about "closing on the enemy." Getting to 200m or so for a hi-probability kill seems to take  a HUGE amount of resources, i.e. afterburner.

#47 Frost

Frost

    Secretary of Offense

  • Forum Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6075 posts
  • Steam ID:CaptFrost
  • Location:Republic of Texas
  • Pro Member:Yes

Posted 15 April 2007 - 03:47 PM

View Postpaulc, on April 15th 2007, 08:16 AM, said:

Love to hear  some strategies about "closing on the enemy." Getting to 200m or so for a hi-probability kill seems to take  a HUGE amount of resources, i.e. afterburner.
How about just some general tips, including closing on the enemy. I fly a MkVII Viper 95% of the time, so your mileage may vary on some of this if you prefer the MkII Viper or the Cylon Raider.

OFFENSIVE:

1) There's no substitute for a good aim. If you're having a lot of trouble holding the gunsight in the octagon, practice practice practice until it's second nature. Fight the easy waves without shooting; just pick a target and do everything you can to follow him around and keep him targeted and just let your wingmen kill them off. Once you get to the harder waves or you run out of wingmen, quit and restart the coop game and repeat until you get comfortable with just keeping the enemy in your crosshairs. Contrary to popular belief, ships in BTRL take very FEW hits to kill. They just have to actually be hits. I've killed two Cylon raiders in formation who were at 100% on a single gliding pass before with guns; it's all about the aim and making your shots count.

2) Don't use speed matching. Yes, you read right, don't use it. If you have a manual throttle on your joystick or a separate throttle, set it to control absolute throttle in the options, and use that instead. 85% of the dogfights I've won have depended on maximizing thrust at the right times, and having the ability to afterburn my way out of a pinch at a split second's notice. When you're matching speed you cannot effectively maximize your thrust, and the speed matching will counter your afterburn. I generally do not match speed anymore except when flying formation with friendlies.

3) Remember that you're in space. Or, alternately, glide is the best friend you have. This is for several reasons.
a. If you find yourself in a turning fight with an enemy without any huge amount of actual movement away from the dogfight area, one of the best things you can possibly do is kill your thrusters to go into the glide, aim, and fire.
b. Gliding also gives you the ability to pull off some insane angles of attack. You can win a turning fight against a superior opponent with a well-timed glide, turn, and deactivation of glide, thus sliding either out of his gunsights, onto his six, or both.
c. Glide allows you to "afterburn" without afterburning. Your craft slows down post-afterburn in order to maintain some semblance of maneuverability, but if you hit glide, your craft will not use its RCS thrusters or retrothrust to slow down after you kick off the afterburners. For example, the MkVII Viper will go a max of 200, but afterburning it maxes out at 240. Need to cover ground fast? Afterburn to 240, hit glide, and let up. It also allows you to outrun missiles if you're in the MkVII.
d. This is also EXTREMELY useful for closing on an opponent rapidly and minimizing his attack window. My favorite tactic is to play chicken with an enemy approaching at distances greater than 1000. When I get within gun range (~1500), I afterburn to 240 going at a 30 offset from his approach, hit glide, aim for his octagon, and let loose. If you keep your aim centered, he'll have no choice but to either die, suffer heavy damage, or break off the attack. Most humans and AI will break off, and the moment they show you their weak side, you can close in.
e. Gliding allows you a better shot at your enemy. Directly ahead and directly behind are the absolute worst angles to fire on an enemy from (even though they're the easiest to achieve), as the bare minimum of shots will make contact, usually 15% or less and even then only if you're close. On the other hand, if you can overtake an enemy or at least get to his side and hit glide, you can fire on him from a side and/or from above/below. Just to illustrate, even at a distance of 400 or so you've got a 75% or better hit probability on a solid top or bottom aspect shot. Which, with MkVII firepower, translates to a kill on a 100% enemy in about a second provided your aim is true and you keep the guncross in the octagon the whole burst.


DEFENSIVE:

1) Repeat after me, Missiles Are Easy to Evade. As with real life, if you can spot the missile en route, your chances of a successful evasion increase exponentially.
a. Obviously, countermeasures are the easiest way to do it, and preferable if you're chasing a target you have a good chance of killing. Countermeasures have a near 100% effectiveness if you wait until the beeping of the missile warning is really quick (i.e. the missile is really close) and THEN launch the decoy. By waiting till the last moment to use countermeasures, you have just as good a chance of evading the missiles, only you have enough countermeasures left for many more, since you only had to use 1 or 2.
b. If you're not chasing a target and you know where the missile is coming from, it may be a better idea to try and outmaneuver it than use up your limited countermeasures. Head roughly toward it at max throttle (I usually use a 45 offset), wait till it gets close, then pull back hard on the stick, roll a bit, hit the afterburner, and yaw hard left or right and hold. 9 times out of 10 the missile will fly by harmlessly.

2) Remember that you're in space. Or, alternately, glide is the best friend you have. Someone sitting on your six in air combat is in the most dangerous place he can possibly be - for you. Someone sitting on your six in space combat in in the most dangerous place he can possibly be - for him. Hit glide, roll over fast, and unleash a stream of gunfire into his face. Also, he'll probably have minimal time to react to missile fire, so if you get a lock on it's an almost guaranteed hit if your opponent is relatively close. Firing double javelins at an opponent chasing from directly behind will most likely result in a kill.

3) Make yourself impossible to hit on approach. This is especially useful against the AI in later waves, which aims better than any human possibly can (they almost can't miss). Once you get close, for the rest of the distance hit the afterburner and fly unpredictable, highspeed afterburning loops around his approach vector, making sure to throw in plenty of asymmetrical yaws. Kind of like repeated snap rolls, but wider. You'll be all over his HUD and damn near impossible to hit, especially when afterburning. Meanwhile the distance between you will continue to close. Keep an eye on the distance... when you start getting within 500 or so, hit the afterburners again if you're not already afterburning and turn hard toward your opponent. You'll often end up overshooting him just a bit, and that's intentional. You'll come out of it behind him or to his side, putting you in a superior firing position.
Kestrel (Falcon NW Tiki) – 4.0 GHz i7 4790K / 16GB RAM / 512GB Samsung 950 Pro M.2, 2x480GB Intel 730 (RAID0), 10TB STX BarraCuda Pro / GeForce GTX TITAN X 12GB
Iridium (MacBook Pro Mid-2012) – 2.7 GHz i7 3820QM / 16GB RAM / 2TB Samsung 850 Pro / GeForce GT 650M 1GB

Eric5h5:
When there's a multiplayer version, I'm going to be on Frost's team. Well, except he doesn't seem to actually need a team...I mean, what's the point? "Hey look, it's Frost and His Merry Gang of Useless Hangers-On!" Or something.

#48 nagromme

nagromme

    Master Blaster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1954 posts

Posted 16 April 2007 - 12:52 PM

Great advice! Thanks.

And I realize now that "your six" refers to 6 o'clock. I always though the "six" referred to the six orthogonal directions, up/down/left/right/forward/back. So I thought "check your six" was just a general reminder along the lines of "look both ways." Now I realize it means specifically behind you.

#49 paulc

paulc

    Fanatic

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 113 posts

Posted 16 April 2007 - 01:08 PM

Maybe I need a LOT more practice, but I don't get how glide is any help, save for waxing someone who is tight on your six. Seems glide is essentially coasting along frictionlessly on the same heading you were on, with engines off. If you had been chasing a Raider, that seems to make one a kind of sitting duck.

Or does it presume that when you go into glide mode, that Raider will spin around and head for an attack on you? Even so, it still SEEMS like one is a sitting duck...

#50 Thinine

Thinine

    Fanatic

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 104 posts

Posted 16 April 2007 - 02:13 PM

I wish I had a joystick so this was playable for me.

#51 Frost

Frost

    Secretary of Offense

  • Forum Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6075 posts
  • Steam ID:CaptFrost
  • Location:Republic of Texas
  • Pro Member:Yes

Posted 16 April 2007 - 02:27 PM

View Postpaulc, on April 16th 2007, 02:08 PM, said:

Maybe I need a LOT more practice, but I don't get how glide is any help, save for waxing someone who is tight on your six. Seems glide is essentially coasting along frictionlessly on the same heading you were on, with engines off. If you had been chasing a Raider, that seems to make one a kind of sitting duck.

Or does it presume that when you go into glide mode, that Raider will spin around and head for an attack on you? Even so, it still SEEMS like one is a sitting duck...
All I can say is just hit it when you're in a dog fight and see for yourself, especially if you're going faster than the target you're chasing and relatively close. The reason it helps so much is it allows you to keep aiming at your target, yet slide off in a direction that gives you a different aspect than the rear. And the reason THAT is useful is because all three craft in BTRL are the hardest to hit from the direct rear because there's the least amount of surface facing you. Attacking when you have a good shot at the side or above/below aspect of an enemy let's you do a lot more damage a lot faster than just sitting on his six o'clock.

Mostly I'm talking about using it in quick bursts in dogfights. You get a good opportunity to activate glide, do so, get in your shots, and switch it back off within a few seconds before your target has a chance to veer away too much. Also, if you're both following a certain path in the fight and not veering off in all directions, it lets you compensate for one thing while aiming: his movements. With your engines and stabilizers going, you have to compensate for yours and your enemy's. The best dogfighters in multiplayer make frequent strategic use of glide both offensively and defensively, so it's definitely something one has to learn to use to reach maximum effectiveness.

View Postnagromme, on April 16th 2007, 01:52 PM, said:

Great advice! Thanks.

And I realize now that "your six" refers to 6 o'clock. I always though the "six" referred to the six orthogonal directions, up/down/left/right/forward/back. So I thought "check your six" was just a general reminder along the lines of "look both ways." Now I realize it means specifically behind you.
Sorry, yeah, your six, your eight, your three all mean that number + o'clock. I suppose I could use vector 180, but that would probably confuse people who aren't flight sim buffs even more. :P
Kestrel (Falcon NW Tiki) – 4.0 GHz i7 4790K / 16GB RAM / 512GB Samsung 950 Pro M.2, 2x480GB Intel 730 (RAID0), 10TB STX BarraCuda Pro / GeForce GTX TITAN X 12GB
Iridium (MacBook Pro Mid-2012) – 2.7 GHz i7 3820QM / 16GB RAM / 2TB Samsung 850 Pro / GeForce GT 650M 1GB

Eric5h5:
When there's a multiplayer version, I'm going to be on Frost's team. Well, except he doesn't seem to actually need a team...I mean, what's the point? "Hey look, it's Frost and His Merry Gang of Useless Hangers-On!" Or something.

#52 paulc

paulc

    Fanatic

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 113 posts

Posted 16 April 2007 - 02:41 PM

View PostFrost, on April 16th 2007, 04:27 PM, said:

Sorry, yeah, your six, your eight, your three all mean that number + o'clock. I suppose I could use vector 180, but that would probably confuse people who aren't flight sim buffs even more. :P

You mean "behind you!"

OK, thanks much for re-explaining, now I need to try it all out!

#53 Thinine

Thinine

    Fanatic

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 104 posts

Posted 17 April 2007 - 04:34 PM

This doesn't seem to work for me. I get the following messages in the Console log:

Quote

4/17/07 5:32:59 PM launchd[80]Background: Aqua: [0x0-0x74f74f].Beyond the Red Line Demo: Standard out/error: /Applications/Games/Beyond the Red Line Demo/Beyond the Red Line Demo.app/Contents/MacOS/Beyond the Red Line Demo: line 14: exec: -n: invalid option
launchd[80]: Background: Aqua: [0x0-0x74f74f].Beyond the Red Line Demo: Standard out/error: exec: usage: exec [-cl] [-a name] file [redirection ...]


#54 nagromme

nagromme

    Master Blaster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1954 posts

Posted 02 August 2007 - 08:57 PM

Recent interview with the creators of BTRL:
http://www.shacknews...x?id=489&page=1

The headline almost gave me a heart attack! But fear not, the mod is still going strong.

#55 ijedi42

ijedi42

    Notorious

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 193 posts
  • Location:Vancouver

Posted 03 August 2007 - 05:20 PM

so are both freespace 2 mac and BtRL freeware?

#56 Frost

Frost

    Secretary of Offense

  • Forum Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6075 posts
  • Steam ID:CaptFrost
  • Location:Republic of Texas
  • Pro Member:Yes

Posted 03 August 2007 - 06:20 PM

View Postijedi42, on August 3rd 2007, 06:20 PM, said:

BtRL freeware?
If BtRL wasn't freeware it would have disappeared beneath a legal document a long time ago. ;)
Kestrel (Falcon NW Tiki) – 4.0 GHz i7 4790K / 16GB RAM / 512GB Samsung 950 Pro M.2, 2x480GB Intel 730 (RAID0), 10TB STX BarraCuda Pro / GeForce GTX TITAN X 12GB
Iridium (MacBook Pro Mid-2012) – 2.7 GHz i7 3820QM / 16GB RAM / 2TB Samsung 850 Pro / GeForce GT 650M 1GB

Eric5h5:
When there's a multiplayer version, I'm going to be on Frost's team. Well, except he doesn't seem to actually need a team...I mean, what's the point? "Hey look, it's Frost and His Merry Gang of Useless Hangers-On!" Or something.

#57 nagromme

nagromme

    Master Blaster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1954 posts

Posted 03 August 2007 - 09:26 PM

View Postijedi42, on August 3rd 2007, 07:20 PM, said:

so are both freespace 2 mac and BtRL freeware?

Even better than that! You don't actually need FS2 at all. BtRL is based (completely legally) on FS2 code, but it's a standalone game that runs all by itself. Just download BtRL and go :) the demo has a few quirks but is really very good, and I can't wait for the next release.

Interesting that they have used all scratch-made textures, in an effort to not tread on copyright problems too much. It would sure be tempting to grab textures from the show.

And yet they have really captured the look of everything perfectly--right down to the homing rockets. The screenshots of the base ship vs. battlestar fights are extremely true to the show.

#58 ijedi42

ijedi42

    Notorious

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 193 posts
  • Location:Vancouver

Posted 04 August 2007 - 05:27 AM

View PostFrost, on August 3rd 2007, 07:20 PM, said:

If BtRL wasn't freeware it would have disappeared beneath a legal document a long time ago. ;)
i should have made myself more clear and less like a naive fool haha, i knew BtRL was free i dont even know why i asked that, i didnt know FS2 was freeware though,and even better BtRL is standalone as i take it so nice!

#59 mtr

mtr

    FreeSpace Upgrade Project

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 123 posts

Posted 04 August 2007 - 11:55 AM

View Postijedi42, on August 4th 2007, 07:27 AM, said:

i didnt know FS2 was freeware though
It's not.  But it's difficult to buy, so most people just download it these days.

Everyone eventually mentions the loophole in the EULA, but that's BS really, and doesn't do anything to authorize mass distribution over the internet.  Interplay owns the distribution rights, but since they are bankrupt, there really isn't anyone to come after you for stealing the game.  Of course, Volition still has copyrights on the game data, but so far they don't appear to have any active interest in preventing people from downloading the game.


And the thing about BtRL isn't just that it's free, but since it's based on the FS2 engine, it has to be free.  The license for the FS2 source code release forbids any sort of profit from the code, or anything derived from it.  That's why all of the FS2 based mods/TCs are free, there isn't a choice in the matter.  It's also why the FS2 code isn't "open source", since under the open source definition you must be allowed to sell the code/product in question.  That little hitch is also a theorized reason why there haven't been any C&D letters yet to any of the mods, they will never be able to profit from their work (directly anyway, they could use it as a resume thing).