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Violence in Video Games...


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#21 MILBOP DIPPLEBERRY

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Posted 25 February 2007 - 11:19 PM

View PostJonB, on February 25th 2007, 10:55 PM, said:

Why are these talks always about human behavior? What about the fact that game violence is a completely boring and played-out game mechanic/means-of-progress that sorely needs to be replaced with something more intelligent, if video games ever want to transcend juvenile fantasy schlock into some kind of realm of respectability?
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#22 archermitch

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Posted 25 February 2007 - 11:22 PM

there are certain fun games out there that aren't violent, but in the long run, an rts or fps will always have some means of fighting...
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#23 JonB

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Posted 25 February 2007 - 11:40 PM

Pardon me for playing devil's advocate, but I actually have a passion to see content-driven games advance out of the puerile rut they are currently in, with the same old designed-by-nerds sci-fi/fantasy attack/collect gameplay dreck that's regurgitated again and again and again. Film and literature have at least earned our culture's collective respect and even serves to substantially influence it. I feel there are much, much larger problems with gaming in its current form than a little blood. Even stunning achievements like Deus Ex, Fallout, Thief, etc. are utter jokes compared to the best that other media forms have to offer; it's clear that gaming is still in its extreme infancy.

However, this is taking the topic off on a wild tangent; apologies to the thread starter.

#24 Smoke_Tetsu

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Posted 25 February 2007 - 11:46 PM

While I don't mean to "derail" the thread even further you have to realize that video games as a media literally are still in their infancy compared to film and especially literature. You can't expect it to be as mature as the latter in around two or three decades compared to how long film has been around which is practically almost a century. Give games a century and it will be where film is now but there will still be games that are similar to popcorn movies. I kind of think it might take less time though considering there eventually will be cross pollination with film (which has happened already to a degree) and at the rate technology is going we've come a long way in just ~30 years.
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Alex Delarg, A Clockwork Orange said:

It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen.

the Battle Cat said:

Slower and faster? I'm sorry to hear such good news?

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#25 JonB

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Posted 25 February 2007 - 11:55 PM

Which is kind of what I was getting at, though it'll always bug me as I hold the actual medium of gaming in such high regard (as it has so much potential). I just feel the violence stuff is so petty in the grander scheme of things, and only serves to detract from the real problem with games.

Edit: And I take no issue with the existence of so-called "popcorn" games in essence, I believe everything has a place, and who doesn't want mindless fun now and then. I only take issue with the fact that it's all gaming is.

#26 Smoke_Tetsu

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Posted 26 February 2007 - 12:03 AM

Don't forget that even as video games mature there will always be those games that are almost centered around progressing the game through violence. There are lots of movies that are the same. Like I said they call them "Popcorn Movies". Perhaps one day most hardcore games today might be considered "popcorn games".

I wrote this before I noticed your edit.. lol

I kind of don't agree though that all we have now is "popcorn games" though as we have the burgeoning market of casual games and while you may turn your nose up at them it's the start of getting more people into games and then they can go from there. We also have non violent games such as point and click adventures but they haven't seemed to be as popular as the more violent titles. I kind of wonder if that says more about the games or about us.
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Alex Delarg, A Clockwork Orange said:

It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen.

the Battle Cat said:

Slower and faster? I'm sorry to hear such good news?

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#27 No One

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Posted 26 February 2007 - 12:15 AM

View PostJonB, on February 25th 2007, 10:40 PM, said:

Pardon me for playing devil's advocate, but I actually have a passion to see content-driven games advance out of the puerile rut they are currently in, with the same old designed-by-nerds sci-fi/fantasy attack/collect gameplay dreck that's regurgitated again and again and again.

*Note: Homeworld 1 spoilers*

I don't see why having those elements damages a game in any way. Despite the fact that Homeworld is a "designed-by-nerds sci-fi/fantasy attack/collect game" I don't think I've seen any game that had more impact than the start of Mission 3. They made you think that you were playing a tutorial, and then dropped you into the middle of a disaster situation. You jumped into your home system expecting to get the standard "Good job, now you can build <insert new ship type here>." Instead you find everything destroyed. You hear the confused voices of the crew and receive a rushed mission briefing instructing you to rescue the last survivors of your destroyed world. On top of that, it did it all within the confines of the game itself. The drama was inherent in what you were doing. They made you feel that every cryo tray you lost was another 100,000 people dead. It spurred you on to complete the mission correctly. Were there a lot of space ships blowing up? Of course! But there was a reason for what you were doing.

#28 Huntn

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Posted 26 February 2007 - 06:49 AM

View Postarchermitch, on February 25th 2007, 11:22 PM, said:

there are certain fun games out there that aren't violent, but in the long run, an rts or fps will always have some means of fighting...

95% (or more) of video games are based on physical conflict/mostly killing. Apparently that is what sells.

#29 dojoboy

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Posted 26 February 2007 - 09:24 AM

I do believe that video games have the possibility to desensitize gamers to acts of...unkindness around them - to disassociate.  But, I'm a firm believer that the context of one's environment has a greater influence.
"There is no end to sorrow."  ---Van Gogh

#30 archermitch

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Posted 26 February 2007 - 09:53 AM

View Postdojoboy, on February 26th 2007, 07:24 AM, said:

I do believe that video games have the possibility to desensitize gamers to acts of...unkindness around them - to disassociate.  But, I'm a firm believer that the context of one's environment has a greater influence.
I get grumpy sometimes. Like when I'm fighting Xan in UT original and my dad slaps my back... but that's about the extent of it for me...

View PostHuntn, on February 26th 2007, 04:49 AM, said:

95% (or more) of video games are based on physical conflict/mostly killing. Apparently that is what sells.
yes, but I never see a game, instantly realize how violent it is and then immediately think how great it is. an example of that would be Manhunt...
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#31 NAG

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Posted 26 February 2007 - 01:51 PM

It's too bad we can't burn games like we could books back in the good old days. That shows you how clever the devil is. He adapts to our righteous weapons of holiness!
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#32 Smoke_Tetsu

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Posted 26 February 2007 - 02:32 PM

View Postdojoboy, on February 26th 2007, 08:24 AM, said:

I do believe that video games have the possibility to desensitize gamers to acts of...unkindness around them - to disassociate.  But, I'm a firm believer that the context of one's environment has a greater influence.

In my case I know it hasn't. For me there is a big difference between violence in entertainment and real life. If I experienced violence in real life or witnessed it it would disturb me a lot more knowing that someone really got hurt. Obviously getting hurt in real life would also disturb me more than losing a few hit points in a game. I have seen blood and gore in video games and movies but if I stumbled upon some body parts or dead animal in real life it would make me sick. I have watched all kinds of violent movies and played all kinds of violent video games not to mention comic books, etc. They are escapism.. not real life.

View Postarchermitch, on February 26th 2007, 08:53 AM, said:

I get grumpy sometimes. Like when I'm fighting Xan in UT original and my dad slaps my back... but that's about the extent of it for me...

I'm sure that would make most people a little grumpy depending on the situation. Unless in the situation you where joking around with him and he wasn't sneaking up on you.

View PostNAG, on February 26th 2007, 12:51 PM, said:

It's too bad we can't burn games like we could books back in the good old days. That shows you how clever the devil is. He adapts to our righteous weapons of holiness!

In that case the Nazi's must be the holiest of them all! *sarcasm*

How about we also burn the gaming witches? :P  :bleedingeyes: :crazy:

I KID! KID I TELL YOU!!  :P :P
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Alex Delarg, A Clockwork Orange said:

It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen.

the Battle Cat said:

Slower and faster? I'm sorry to hear such good news?

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#33 the Battle Cat

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Posted 26 February 2007 - 03:03 PM

View PostSmoke_Tetsu, on February 26th 2007, 12:32 PM, said:

View PostNAG, on February 26th 2007, 11:51 AM, said:

It's too bad we can't burn games like we could books back in the good old days. That shows you how clever the devil is. He adapts to our righteous weapons of holiness!
In that case the Nazi's must be the holiest of them all! *sarcasm*

How about we also burn the gaming witches? :P  :bleedingeyes: :crazy:
Smoke_Tetsu, NAG was joking or more specifically, using humorous hyperbole to make a point.  NAG is my friend and fellow moderator from my days at the old MacAddict forums.  You should always carefully deconstruct NAG's posts.  :lol:  NAG, this is Smoke_Tetsu, the guy who almost always takes things in the literal sense especially when there is a joke involved.

No hits, no runs, no fouls.  Or in NAG's case, fowls.
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#34 The Mail Man

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Posted 26 February 2007 - 03:06 PM

Personally the more death and destruction the better the game for me. Especially online! Realistic or not. Always remember these wise words. No women. No Children. Everything else is game. :)
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#35 Eric5h5

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Posted 26 February 2007 - 03:29 PM

View PostThe Mail Man, on February 26th 2007, 04:06 PM, said:

Always remember these wise words. No women. No Children. Everything else is game. :)

What if the women are armed with rocket launchers or sniper rifles, and moreover are using them in attempt to exterminate you?

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#36 dojoboy

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Posted 26 February 2007 - 03:36 PM

View PostSmoke_Tetsu, on February 26th 2007, 03:32 PM, said:

In my case I know it hasn't.


Well, I had the more impressionable youth in mind.  For those whose parents do not screen media.
"There is no end to sorrow."  ---Van Gogh

#37 Smoke_Tetsu

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Posted 26 February 2007 - 04:50 PM

View Postthe Battle Cat, on February 26th 2007, 02:03 PM, said:

In that case the Nazi's must be the holiest of them all! *sarcasm*

How about we also burn the gaming witches? :P  :bleedingeyes: :crazy:

Smoke_Tetsu, NAG was joking or more specifically, using humorous hyperbole to make a point.  NAG is my friend and fellow moderator from my days at the old MacAddict forums.  You should always carefully deconstruct NAG's posts.  :lol:  NAG, this is Smoke_Tetsu, the guy who almost always takes things in the literal sense especially when there is a joke involved.

No hits, no runs, no fouls.  Or in NAG's case, fowls.

Don't smilies mean anything? You make me sound stupid well I'm not that stupid. Ok maybe it was a stupid joke I made but it was a joke too.. looks like your joke radar needs servicing. Sometimes I say things and people think I'm taking things literal when I myself am also making a joke and that's frustrating. But hey I'll own up to the fact that I didn't consider some "jokes" to be funny but no need to introduce me to others that way. In those cases (like the Cry thing) I may say something at first but when it's brought up again I avoid it and I live and let live. Please? I don't hold grudges against you. I would rather people ignore me than put me down to tell you the truth. You may have read some posts I posted here but you don't know me.
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Alex Delarg, A Clockwork Orange said:

It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen.

the Battle Cat said:

Slower and faster? I'm sorry to hear such good news?

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#38 StopDropBurn

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Posted 26 February 2007 - 05:13 PM

Not to butt my head in, but tBC wouldn't try to put you down or try to make you sound stupid, I'm pretty sure that he was joking right there, he was alerting NAG to the fact that you take things a little too seriously sometimes. ;)
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#39 Smoke_Tetsu

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Posted 26 February 2007 - 05:16 PM

View PostStopDropBurn, on February 26th 2007, 04:13 PM, said:

Not to butt my head in, but tBC wouldn't try to put you down or try to make you sound stupid, I'm pretty sure that he was joking right there, he was alerting NAG to the fact that you take things a little too seriously sometimes. ;)

This was a case of him jumping the gun and if that post was a joke meant to trap me into responding the way I did then bravo. But honestly.. he doesn't know me as well as he thinks he does. And honestly.. not all my posts are meant to be taken literally and all that serious either... particularly the one he responded to. But again it was probably tasteless and I own up to that.
--Tetsuo

Alex Delarg, A Clockwork Orange said:

It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen.

the Battle Cat said:

Slower and faster? I'm sorry to hear such good news?

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#40 archermitch

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Posted 26 February 2007 - 05:23 PM

i thought it was pretty obvious, but let me clear things up. Either TBC's couldn't tell that Smoke_Tetsu's was joking or he didn't mark clearly that he was joking... I thought it was pretty clear that everything was ok, until TBC post...
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