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WoW for couples?


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#41 Huntn

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Posted 22 February 2007 - 11:36 AM

View PostWhaleman, on February 22nd 2007, 11:22 AM, said:

I guess the Druid-Mage is supposed to be Druid-Priest, since the Nelfs can't be mages.

Your right and I fixed my post. Thanks for your thoughts. I'm still thinking about your advice. Dual druids and dual hunters are tempting, mostly because if my wife (the newbie) is having trouble with a class related issue, it will be easier for me to demo a solution. The thing that hunters would lack is healing abilities.

#42 Whaleman

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Posted 22 February 2007 - 11:49 AM

A combo that is not possible with the Nelfs, but that is one of my favourite combinations is the Shaman-Mage. Not much of tanking possible there, but with and enhancement shammie and Frost mage, you got such a DPS/CC combination that it's very seldom needed. Can be troublesome with the elites that cannot be frosted still, but after our Warrior/Priest, the Shammie/Mage are probably the ones that handles most situations the best... and they do it a lot faster than any other combo... but with a bit higher failure rate than the warrior/priest then ;) The only races up for that combo are the trolls (or troll/orc since they share start location) and draenei though... but since Trolls rock, that shouldn't be an issue :P
You shouldn't ask yourself such worthless questions. Aim higher. Try this: why am I here? Why do I exist, and what is my purpose in this universe?

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#43 totallywhacked

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Posted 24 February 2007 - 09:48 PM

I dunno huntn......hunters are really good soloing. But really I don't think they are the funnest thing in the world for partnering.

Druid's are pretty cool to play (and have been substantially improved, I hear) since their animal forms give them such variety.

Paladin + mage is an awsome combo...firepower, tanking and healing. What more could you ask for?

#44 Huntn

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Posted 25 February 2007 - 08:43 AM

View Posttotallywhacked, on February 24th 2007, 09:48 PM, said:

I dunno huntn......hunters are really good soloing. But really I don't think they are the funnest thing in the world for partnering.

Druid's are pretty cool to play (and have been substantially improved, I hear) since their animal forms give them such variety.

Paladin + mage is an awsome combo...firepower, tanking and healing. What more could you ask for?

You may be right about hunters. I really liked having a ferocious pet I could sick on mobs. :)

I remember Druids and Pallys being described as jacks of all trades- hybrid classes which offer multiple play styles, but don't do any single thing as effectively as a pure class. Then my friends who have never stopped playing and seem very knowledgeable tell me that Druids were heavily buffed just prior to the release of TBC, everyone wants to be a Pally, and that Warriors almost have a negligible advantage for melee.

#45 Tetsuya

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Posted 26 February 2007 - 04:27 AM

in fact, Warriors are worthless as tanks.  Not the fault of the warriors themselves, but Blizz did something to druids (specifically, Feral spec'ed druids) to make them FAR superior tanks.  

In the level 70 5-man instances, most warriors, even Protection spec'ed warriors in very good defense gear, cannot keep aggro off of me or our healer pretty much no matter what.  The Feral Druids ive run with in the expansion have had no problem of any kind keeping aggro even on multiple mobs.

On top of that, because of the change to Dire Bear form (450% armor contribution from items instead of the 350% it used to be) Feral Druids are capable of reaching the max damage reduction (75% against a same-level mob) and Warriors cant even come close.  The last instance i ran, a Shadow Labyrinth run with a Feral druid as a tank, the druid in question had almost 19,000 armor in bear form (74.98% damage reduction) and over 12k HP *unbuffed*.   No warrior i know can even come close to that.  (most good prot warriors land around 12k armor and 10k HP or less).  

It's silly.  

Not to mention a Resto druid can main-heal just as well as a priest in most cases (the only times when they cant are on fights where the mobs tend to hit for unpredictably large ammount of damage, since they dont have a "fast" casting heal).  

Paladins also got a huge buff, as well.  Healadins can heal as well as priests, if they have the gear for it, and a Protection Paladin can tank about as well as a Feral Druid.

Dont make a warrior unless you want to do it as a DPS/offtank role.

#46 Huntn

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Posted 26 February 2007 - 07:18 AM

View PostTetsuya, on February 26th 2007, 04:27 AM, said:

in fact, Warriors are worthless as tanks.  Not the fault of the warriors themselves, but Blizz did something to druids (specifically, Feral spec'ed druids) to make them FAR superior tanks.  

In the level 70 5-man instances, most warriors, even Protection spec'ed warriors in very good defense gear, cannot keep aggro off of me or our healer pretty much no matter what.  The Feral Druids ive run with in the expansion have had no problem of any kind keeping aggro even on multiple mobs.

On top of that, because of the change to Dire Bear form (450% armor contribution from items instead of the 350% it used to be) Feral Druids are capable of reaching the max damage reduction (75% against a same-level mob) and Warriors cant even come close.  The last instance i ran, a Shadow Labyrinth run with a Feral druid as a tank, the druid in question had almost 19,000 armor in bear form (74.98% damage reduction) and over 12k HP *unbuffed*.   No warrior i know can even come close to that.  (most good prot warriors land around 12k armor and 10k HP or less).  

It's silly.  

Not to mention a Resto druid can main-heal just as well as a priest in most cases (the only times when they cant are on fights where the mobs tend to hit for unpredictably large ammount of damage, since they dont have a "fast" casting heal).  

Paladins also got a huge buff, as well.  Healadins can heal as well as priests, if they have the gear for it, and a Protection Paladin can tank about as well as a Feral Druid.

Dont make a warrior unless you want to do it as a DPS/offtank role.

Holy Moly Macaroni! Do I hear the sound of nashing warrior teeth on the WoW servers? Standby for the next big Warrior buff.

#47 Whaleman

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Posted 26 February 2007 - 07:51 AM

While warriors are in a down at the moment, it would be silly not to roll one now because they're outranked at level 70 at the moment though... the game is constantly changing and Blizzard better put the Warrior back to the number one tank in future patches... my former resto/balance druid, currently feral, is so overpowered now that it has to be nerfed soon. When I respecced him at 65, with barely any feral gear besides a few quest rewards and some of my own leatherworking creation.... I could do 3.8k damage in cat form with a ferocious bite, and over 1k mangles in bear form. My rogue is crying when I see what damage my druuid does, and we won't even talk about my Fiancée's warrior... she still wins in tanking though, thanks to the block-values from the shield which a druid completely lack... but the feral druid really got overpowered in the expansion.

Update: As soon as I posted that, I read that the armor bonus in bear and dire bear form is reduced to 400% on the public test realms. That's over a 10% drop in armor. A good first step to put warriors back at top... even if I would have preferred a warrior increase of armor instead ;)
You shouldn't ask yourself such worthless questions. Aim higher. Try this: why am I here? Why do I exist, and what is my purpose in this universe?

(Answers: 'Cause you are. 'Cause you do. 'Cause I got a shotgun, and you ain't got one.)

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#48 Aika

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Posted 26 February 2007 - 03:35 PM

View PostTetsuya, on February 26th 2007, 10:27 AM, said:

Paladins also got a huge buff, as well.  Healadins can heal as well as priests, if they have the gear for it, and a Protection Paladin can tank about as well as a Feral Druid.
I don't care too much for nerfing or buffing and all that (it shouldn't effect your enjoyment or class selection) but this is why I am enjoying playing as a Paladin: I don't have one set role and can adapt to whatever the group needs. It's a very interesting class to play that can vary from one instance to the next. People often say "Jack of all trades…" but to me it's a boon! :)
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#49 Huntn

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Posted 26 February 2007 - 07:24 PM

Some tentative steps by the Ashely/ Raelene Druid team on Dalaran, rising up to the level of 5. You know it's been 2 years since I played. Couple of questions:

1. What level is required to pick up a skill such as leather working? (5 or 10?)

2. Two druids- Any thoughts on primary skills?  I figure both should be skinners, one leather working. Trying to remember if skinning is a primary or secondary skill... So if one is a leatherworker, how about the other?

3. Talents start at L10- I plan on one being specc'd as feral, the other as restoration. Sound good? I figure it's better if I (with more experience) handle heavy duty healing duties. Or is it more difficult to be the feral critter?

At level 10, if I get a thumbs up from the wife to continue playing, I'll let her decide if she loves the North woods or if we should move to Stormwind. In any case, I want to be sure I get over there in time to get the Deadmines quest chain. Then at some point, I'll offer the idea of upgrading to Burning Crusade for the new races. I'm eyeing Blood Elves.

The number one critique of TBC is that no new mid level content was added. I heartily agree with this criticism...

#50 Xandrian

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Posted 26 February 2007 - 11:13 PM

Alright. An update.

My lovely wife and I talked about WoW today over a nice onion and paneer curry. (Mmmmm... currrrry...)

I talked about the concept of how one goes about creating a character: Their look... their name... etc. I talked about the concept of RPing, and what makes for a fun experience. Furthermore... we discussed what constitutes good RP, and that RPing really isn't a herculean task.

I held her attention. Score.

I then talked about the concept of a background for a character. Then I got to learn something about my wife that I didn't know before. Apparently, when she was young she would spend time writing stories. She enjoyed sitting down and coming up with characters names, appearances, and backgrounds. She says that that is as far as she got. According to her, she never was much good at actual story plot.

Thus, the idea of coming up with a character's name, appearance, and "backstory" appealed to her. Double score!

So we had some fun sitting down and thinking up ideas for characters and how our two characters' personalities would be.

She seemed to understand and appreciate the fact that 2 characters adventuring together is almost like a story. Except in this case, a story that develops its own plot just by playing the game and going on adventures.

I think I'm in the door on this one. Of course, the litmus test is when she actually starts playing the game and trying it for herself (I still have to wait for a time when we aren't drowning in work), but so far I am most encouraged as she seems interested in at least giving the game the benefit of the doubt.

It also seems like she is perceiving the game a little bit less as something "geeks" would do and more as a fun accessible thing that could be appealing to more people than she had initially thought.

Woot? We will see.

Xandrian

#51 Whaleman

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Posted 27 February 2007 - 07:28 AM

View PostHuntn, on February 27th 2007, 02:24 AM, said:

Some tentative steps by the Ashely/ Raelene Druid team on Dalaran, rising up to the level of 5. You know it's been 2 years since I played. Couple of questions:

1. What level is required to pick up a skill such as leather working? (5 or 10?)

You can learn that as soon as you find a trainer.

Quote

2. Two druids- Any thoughts on primary skills?  I figure both should be skinners, one leather working. Trying to remember if skinning is a primary or secondary skill... So if one is a leatherworker, how about the other?
Having both as skinners won't do you much good if you always play together, since only one person can skin the mob you just killed. I'd say skinner/leatherworker, herbalist/alchemist.

Quote

3. Talents start at L10- I plan on one being specc'd as feral, the other as restoration. Sound good? I figure it's better if I (with more experience) handle heavy duty healing duties. Or is it more difficult to be the feral critter?

Resto is extreme overkill for only 2 persons. I'd suggest the "healer" went balance which will make him/her able to deal some damage while in nelf form and still be a better healer than a pure feral player.... plus you'll get a moonkin at level 40... :P Resto is a pure instance/raid spec.... which very few players use to level up. I can instance heal as solo healer even with my current feral spec. When it comes to what is hardest... the feral player is the one that's up close and comfy among the enemies.... which usually gives you a harder time keeping track of what's going on around... and if somebody's hitting your healer (which if it goes balance has nature's grasp to quickly free him/her from one attacker) while the healer can stay back, deal some damage at will and just keep track of the bear's health.

An option would be two feral druids taking turns in going bear and holding aggro, and cat and dealing damage... since if you got one dedicated healer, the feral druid will be more or less forced to bear form. In this combo you will still have good healing (my resto druid can still heal harder than my holy priest... but he can't keep up in long instance fights like my priest trying to do that), and when need, one can tank and the other heal (elite quests mostly). Even if feral will get a minor nerf the next patch, it's still the most overpowered of the three talent trees for a druid.
You shouldn't ask yourself such worthless questions. Aim higher. Try this: why am I here? Why do I exist, and what is my purpose in this universe?

(Answers: 'Cause you are. 'Cause you do. 'Cause I got a shotgun, and you ain't got one.)

***END MESSAGE***

#52 Huntn

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Posted 27 February 2007 - 08:03 AM

View PostXandrian, on February 26th 2007, 11:13 PM, said:

It also seems like she is perceiving the game a little bit less as something "geeks" would do and more as a fun accessible thing that could be appealing to more people than she had initially thought.

Woot? We will see.

Xandrian

Great news! Fingers crossed for you. I forget have you played WoW before? When playing dedicated characters it is much easier to take your time and play on a set schedule versus going overboard.

My wife has not committed to the game yet. I really feared the grind would turn her off, but one of the early nelf quests was to go find ingredients for a cure. She enjoyed that and she seems to be enjoying wacking spiders although she is a little hesitant about entering Shadowthread Cave, which I view as positive. :) There is a quest in there to fetch some spider eggs...

View PostWhaleman, on February 27th 2007, 07:28 AM, said:

You can learn that as soon as you find a trainer.

Having both as skinners won't do you much good if you always play together, since only one person can skin the mob you just killed. I'd say skinner/leatherworker, herbalist/alchemist.
Resto is extreme overkill for only 2 persons. I'd suggest the "healer" went balance which will make him/her able to deal some damage while in nelf form and still be a better healer than a pure feral player.... plus you'll get a moonkin at level 40... :P Resto is a pure instance/raid spec.... which very few players use to level up. I can instance heal as solo healer even with my current feral spec. When it comes to what is hardest... the feral player is the one that's up close and comfy among the enemies.... which usually gives you a harder time keeping track of what's going on around... and if somebody's hitting your healer (which if it goes balance has nature's grasp to quickly free him/her from one attacker) while the healer can stay back, deal some damage at will and just keep track of the bear's health.

An option would be two feral druids taking turns in going bear and holding aggro, and cat and dealing damage... since if you got one dedicated healer, the feral druid will be more or less forced to bear form. In this combo you will still have good healing (my resto druid can still heal harder than my holy priest... but he can't keep up in long instance fights like my priest trying to do that), and when need, one can tank and the other heal (elite quests mostly). Even if feral will get a minor nerf the next patch, it's still the most overpowered of the three talent trees for a druid.

Once again you've given me some things to think about. :) Hmm, dual feral or feral/balance...

I swear I remember starting a new character and at level 2 or 3 running over to a trainer only to be told I needed a higher level. And I remember that level being L5.  Of course maybe they changed it since I last played?

So is skinning a primary or secondary skill? I just figured it would be good for both members to have if it is a secondary skill even though only one would really need it.

#53 migdsig

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Posted 27 February 2007 - 08:34 AM

I want to thank you Xandrian.  Thanks to your post I decided to try WOW on my wife this weekend.  I told her about the different classes and races and piqued her interest.  She loved the idea of having a pet so started a NE hunter.  She loves it.  She played most of the weekend (more than me).  Even aspects of the game that she teased me about are fun for her.

I don't play much and didn't want to roll a new character, but I think she'll be up with my level 30 pally soon anyway.

Thanks,

Mig :lol:

#54 Xandrian

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Posted 27 February 2007 - 10:12 AM

View Postmigdsig, on February 27th 2007, 08:34 AM, said:

I want to thank you Xandrian.  Thanks to your post I decided to try WOW on my wife this weekend.  I told her about the different classes and races and piqued her interest.  She loved the idea of having a pet so started a NE hunter.  She loves it.  She played most of the weekend (more than me).  Even aspects of the game that she teased me about are fun for her.

I don't play much and didn't want to roll a new character, but I think she'll be up with my level 30 pally soon anyway.

Thanks,

Mig :lol:

What great news! I'm glad that she is liking it. I hope that my wife has the same sort of reaction once she starts playing. I can't wait to start her on it and see what happens. You are quite welcome. I think that playing WoW with the spouse is a healthy way to enjoy a computer game and not push the spouse to the peripheary. I still remember that back in the EQ1 days there was a Yahoo discussion group named "Everquest Widows," populated by wives who no longer really got to spend time with their MMO-addicted hubbies.

That isn't good of course.

Hopefully I'll have a success story to report just like you.

Huntn - In answer to your question, I have indeed played WoW before. I was in the Beta, and after it went Live my first character was a Protection-spec Paladin that I soloed all the way up to 60! How is THAT for masochistic!!

My story Huntn, is remarkably similar to yours. I loved the game until 60, and then 60 hosed me. I loved the solo/small group content, and found level 60... well... lacking. I missed the plotline, I missed the quests. Instances were... intense is the only word. No longer was it fun really, but instead group leaders were so hardcore that the RP was lost because you had to be so focused on the instance, and one mistake would get you chewed up by your group. No fun. BTW, I know my experience isn't everyones. I know some people who have a lot of fun in the endgame. Just discussing my experience.

Anyway, the BC is part of my motivation to want to return. The other part would be RPing alongside my wife, which I think would be beyond bada$$. That would be motivation to try different characters, make the 1-60 grind NOT a grind, and so on.

When I played WoW by myself, my wife would cross-stitch, or practice her flute, or play Sudoku. She did this without complaining, but after awhile (I played for about a year and a half) I started to feel bad for essentially putting her on the backburner while I played WoW. She would ask questions each night like, "are you coming to bed?" I would always say, "in a few minutes." Those few minutes became hours and she was asleep each time I came to bed. That wore on both of us. The day I quit WoW, she refers to as, "the day I got my husband back."

So... while I might play again by myself, it would be sparingly. I hope she ends up liking the game too so that we can enjoy the game together. If not, c'est la vie.

That was a longer answer to your short question. Sorry about that.

Cheers,
Xandrian

#55 the Battle Cat

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Posted 27 February 2007 - 10:39 AM

View PostXandrian, on February 27th 2007, 08:12 AM, said:

I still remember that back in the EQ1 days there was a Yahoo discussion group named "Everquest Widows," populated by wives who no longer really got to spend time with their MMO-addicted hubbies.

Hopefully you don't end up starting a Yahoo discussion group named "WoW Widowers" populated by hubbies who have created a MMO-addicted wife!  This is a highly addictive game you have introduced a non gamer to.  As long time gamers many of us have built up immunities and internal safeguards against game addiction.  Keep your eye on her and don't let it get the best of her.  You need to be strong for the both of you.
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#56 Huntn

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Posted 27 February 2007 - 11:41 AM

View PostXandrian, on February 27th 2007, 10:12 AM, said:

Huntn - In answer to your question, I have indeed played WoW before. I was in the Beta, and after it went Live my first character was a Protection-spec Paladin that I soloed all the way up to 60! How is THAT for masochistic!!

My story Huntn, is remarkably similar to yours. I loved the game until 60, and then 60 hosed me. I loved the solo/small group content, and found level 60... well... lacking. I missed the plotline, I missed the quests. Instances were... intense is the only word. No longer was it fun really, but instead group leaders were so hardcore that the RP was lost because you had to be so focused on the instance, and one mistake would get you chewed up by your group. No fun. BTW, I know my experience isn't everyones. I know some people who have a lot of fun in the endgame. Just discussing my experience.

OMG, we might be WoW twins. I figure I've mentioned it before, (as you know we have similar stories) but during beta, I played a Druid. My first retail character was a Pally which I ran to L60. Your summary of the WoW end game mirrors my feelings exactly.

Oh, and BTW, Blizzard held my characters on ice for my 2 year sabbatical away from the game. I was kinda wondering if they would still be there.

As far as tBCs comments, socialization is what makes this game so addictive. If I was playing this solo, there is no way I could go back and work through all the starter quests again in Teldrassil. But having a companion makes it fun and committing to playing a dedicated pair keeps a cap on game play and removes the left behind feeling you might get  if your WoW playmates are on every night. Of course that does not guarantee that someone is not going to become addicted. I'm just saying it improves the odds of avoiding that scene.

Eventually (if the wife sticks with it) we'll have a decision to make about the expansion, because currently, I know where everything is located. It would be nice to roll new characters such as blood elves, where I've never been so we can truly explore.

#57 NAG

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Posted 27 February 2007 - 02:43 PM

Yeah, the wow account management website has an option to limit how long and when you can log on. Very useful if you find you need it. And if you really need it, delete the app. Just remember it's a game (and a nice chat room if you're in a good guild).
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#58 Xandrian

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Posted 27 February 2007 - 03:06 PM

View Postthe Battle Cat, on February 27th 2007, 10:39 AM, said:

Hopefully you don't end up starting a Yahoo discussion group named "WoW Widowers" populated by hubbies who have created a MMO-addicted wife!  This is a highly addictive game you have introduced a non gamer to.  As long time gamers many of us have built up immunities and internal safeguards against game addiction.  Keep your eye on her and don't let it get the best of her.  You need to be strong for the both of you.

Thanks tBC for the advice. I think I would be very surprised if she ended up getting hooked on it the way I did once. The most I can hope for at this point is that she will play it with me on days when she has nothing else that she would rather do.

I suppose it is possible that she could just fall in love with it and play it non-stop but... I think I would be really surprised, because as I said before, gaming hasn't traditionally been her thing. Who knows though. All I can say is that if she really wants to spend lots of time to play the game with me, I'll run outside to make sure the sky hasn't turned purple and that pigs aren't flying around my backyard.

Huntn - Yes, it does sound like we are WoW clones!

Cheers,
Xandrian

#59 Whaleman

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Posted 28 February 2007 - 05:42 AM

View PostHuntn, on February 27th 2007, 03:03 PM, said:

I swear I remember starting a new character and at level 2 or 3 running over to a trainer only to be told I needed a higher level. And I remember that level being L5.  Of course maybe they changed it since I last played?

It could be level 5 since you don't have anything at all to collect in the starter area you're never in need of it untel level 5-6... I actually can't remember.

Quote

So is skinning a primary or secondary skill? I just figured it would be good for both members to have if it is a secondary skill even though only one would really need it.

It's a primary skill. The secondary skills are limited to first aid, cooking and fishing.
You shouldn't ask yourself such worthless questions. Aim higher. Try this: why am I here? Why do I exist, and what is my purpose in this universe?

(Answers: 'Cause you are. 'Cause you do. 'Cause I got a shotgun, and you ain't got one.)

***END MESSAGE***

#60 Huntn

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Posted 28 February 2007 - 06:37 AM

View PostWhaleman, on February 28th 2007, 05:42 AM, said:

It could be level 5 since you don't have anything at all to collect in the starter area you're never in need of it untel level 5-6... I actually can't remember.
It's a primary skill. The secondary skills are limited to first aid, cooking and fishing.

Thanks for the info!

I asked about class combos over at the WoW forums and got these suggestions:
Druid+ druid, rogue, or hunter.
Hunter + hunter, or warlock
Priest+ rogue, hunter, lock, mage, or warrior
Palladin+ warrior, mage or warlock

Hey at least I did not list every possible combination, but close. :P

While hunter was one of my favorite classes I remember what a pain it was to feed a new pet. They were always hungry! From this standpoint, warlock was better- minions don't need to eat.

These days do minions do a good job of holding aggro?

I played a Pally up through L60 and I'm hesitant to do it again although Pally/Mage sounds interesting.

We have all ready rolled 2 druids, but I am thinking about: Priest+ Warrior or Lock, Pally+ Warrior, Lock or Mage. Having one half of the team be a newbie, I think it's best to avoid Rogues and Hunters.

Here's a thought- Shadow Priest + Warlock, Minion to tank? :devil: