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10.4.8 Released


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#41 rob_ART

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Posted 03 October 2006 - 04:28 PM

View Postteflon, on October 3rd 2006, 09:48 PM, said:

back to talking about 10.4.8, Barefeats has this to say:
"DOOM 3: Low resolutions (640x480) ran 26% faster. Reason? Multi-threaded OpenGL is supported by Doom 3 in combination with the newest Tiger release. Doom 3 is currently the only app we know that takes advantage of this but expect updates to other apps to take advantage of this.."

can anyone out there corroborate this?

I can.... ;-)

One of my confidential sources tipped me off to this. I ran Doom 3 at 640x480 High, 1024x768 High, 1280x800 High, and 1024x768 Medium. I saw gains at 640x480 High and 1024x768 Medium (no Shadows).

I tried Quake 4, Halo, and UT2004. No gains at any settings -- mainly due to those apps NOT having code to take advantage of multi-threaded OpenGL -- yet.
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#42 Eric5h5

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Posted 03 October 2006 - 04:43 PM

View Postrob_ART, on October 3rd 2006, 06:28 PM, said:

I tried Quake 4, Halo, and UT2004. No gains at any settings -- mainly due to those apps NOT having code to take advantage of multi-threaded OpenGL -- yet.

Quake 4 is already SMP-aware, so would it be able to gain anything further from multi-threaded OpenGL?  Maybe only on quad systems?

--Eric

#43 flargh

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Posted 03 October 2006 - 05:36 PM

View PostEric5h5, on October 3rd 2006, 06:43 PM, said:

Quake 4 is already SMP-aware, so would it be able to gain anything further from multi-threaded OpenGL?

SMP =! MT OGL
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#44 Eric5h5

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Posted 03 October 2006 - 06:28 PM

View Postflargh, on October 3rd 2006, 07:36 PM, said:

SMP =! MT OGL

I know that...my question was in regards to possible saturation of the processors.

--Eric

#45 Siriusfox

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Posted 03 October 2006 - 07:44 PM

Is anyone having problems with their computer detecting mouse on startup?
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#46 Brad Oliver

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Posted 03 October 2006 - 07:47 PM

View Postrob_ART, on October 3rd 2006, 03:28 PM, said:

One of my confidential sources tipped me off to this.

That is odd, since Mac Doom3 doesn't contain code to take advantage of the new MT engine - the latest revision of Doom 3 is from February 2006. ;-) Doom 3 does have its own native OpenGL threading mechanism, which is unrelated to the changes in 10.4.8 - I wonder if that's what you're seeing instead.

It's possible that Apple is forcing the MT engine on for Doom3 in the OS itself, but as far as I can tell, it's not happening in the app's code. I say this because we've been wondering how to "flip the switch" to turn on the new GL MT engine in all of our games.
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#47 Tomatocow

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Posted 03 October 2006 - 08:32 PM

View PostSiriusfox, on October 4th 2006, 10:44 AM, said:

Is anyone having problems with their computer detecting mouse on startup?

What manufacturer? My MS IntelliMouse detects on startup no probs.

#48 Siriusfox

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Posted 03 October 2006 - 08:43 PM

View PostTomatocow, on October 3rd 2006, 07:32 PM, said:

What manufacturer? My MS IntelliMouse detects on startup no probs.
Apple and Logitech. My Mighty mouse, and some generic Logitech aren't detected. I have to unplug, then replug them in before it detects a mouse.
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#49 Janichsan

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Posted 03 October 2006 - 08:48 PM

View PostSiriusfox, on October 4th 2006, 04:43 AM, said:

Apple and Logitech. My Mighty mouse, and some generic Logitech aren't detected. I have to unplug, then replug them in before it detects a mouse.
My Logitech here works flawlessly.

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#50 a2daj

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Posted 03 October 2006 - 09:58 PM

View PostBrad Oliver, on October 3rd 2006, 06:47 PM, said:


That is odd, since Mac Doom3 doesn't contain code to take advantage of the new MT engine - the latest revision of Doom 3 is from February 2006. ;-) Doom 3 does have its own native OpenGL threading mechanism, which is unrelated to the changes in 10.4.8 - I wonder if that's what you're seeing instead.

It's possible that Apple is forcing the MT engine on for Doom3 in the OS itself, but as far as I can tell, it's not happening in the app's code. I say this because we've been wondering how to "flip the switch" to turn on the new GL MT engine in all of our games.

I tried turning on MT OpenGL in ioquake3 just to see what would happen and it made things worse.  However, I doubt I enabled it properly.  Their code hides a lot of the OpenGL setup code behind SDL so it's not exactly obvious where the best place to toss in CGLEnable() so I just tossed it in the end of GLW_InitExtensions().  On my MBP with r_smp 0, framerates went from 230 to 150.  So, there's a very good chance I'm not using it right but according to my code it's enabled.  Or maybe the renderer doesn't play nicely with MT OpenGL.
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#51 rob_ART

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Posted 04 October 2006 - 05:02 AM

If you visit the "Action & Shooters" forum you will see this posting regarding 10.4.8 and Doom 3:
"I've had confirmation that 10.4.8 does have multi-threaded OpenGL. Doom 3 will take advantage of it. We're actively working on some of our other games to enable support and test to see how well it helps. For any that are stable and get speed boosts, we'll release updates." (Glenda Adams, Director of Development at Aspyr)

By the way, Quake 4 actually runs slower under 10.4.8 for some reason.
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#52 Brad Oliver

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Posted 04 October 2006 - 10:28 AM

View Postrob_ART, on October 4th 2006, 04:02 AM, said:

If you visit the "Action & Shooters" forum you will see this posting regarding 10.4.8 and Doom 3:
"I've had confirmation that 10.4.8 does have multi-threaded OpenGL. Doom 3 will take advantage of it. We're actively working on some of our other games to enable support and test to see how well it helps. For any that are stable and get speed boosts, we'll release updates." (Glenda Adams, Director of Development at Aspyr)

So I got a clarification - our version of Doom 3 does nothing to activate the MT GL engine. Apple's driver proactively enables it for Doom 3 in OSX.
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#53 iRolley

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Posted 04 October 2006 - 11:03 AM

View PostEric5h5, on October 3rd 2006, 06:28 PM, said:

I know that...my question was in regards to possible saturation of the processors.

--Eric

The Doom3 engine being much more GPU limited than CPU, I guess more load could be put on the CPU. But then I can't figure out if this would help if the GPU is already saturated.

Anyway I guess we have to be happy to see Apple improve its OpenGL.

View PostBrad Oliver, on October 4th 2006, 10:28 AM, said:

So I got a clarification - our version of Doom 3 does nothing to activate the MT GL engine. Apple's driver proactively enables it for Doom 3 in OSX.

Wow, would it be the first time Apple optimizes its graphic drivers to detect and optimize a game, just like ATI and nVidia do on Windows?

#54 opmdude

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Posted 04 October 2006 - 02:32 PM

View PostiRolley, on October 4th 2006, 10:03 AM, said:

The Doom3 engine being much more GPU limited than CPU, I guess more load could be put on the CPU. But then I can't figure out if this would help if the GPU is already saturated.

Anyway I guess we have to be happy to see Apple improve its OpenGL.
Wow, would it be the first time Apple optimizes its graphic drivers to detect and optimize a game, just like ATI and nVidia do on Windows?

i just hope blizzard is gone able multi-threaded OpenGL for WoW

#55 a2daj

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Posted 04 October 2006 - 04:09 PM

Rob has mentioned a few times in the WoW forums that they're still tinkering with WoW and MT-OGL.  It will ship in a post 1.12.x content patch (which could mean expansion pack or something before it).
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#56 Janichsan

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Posted 04 October 2006 - 11:04 PM

Some here mentioned earlier that their MBPs appear to be hotter. Well, yesterday (when I finally got around to do some thorough gaming with my freshly updated MBP) I noticed that it doesn't feel hotter but that the fan turns up a lot more than before. It's not as loud as my 12" Powerbook, but almost. Before 10.4.8 my MBP was extremly quiet.

But apart from that, I didn't notice anything bad. Civ IV seems to play more fluently (and didn't crash once yesterday), but I think someone mentioned that already.

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#57 Prometheus

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Posted 11 October 2006 - 02:44 PM

Improves compatibility for the TV Tracker 2 Dashboard widget.
Yea baby! :D
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#58 rbarris

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Posted 12 October 2006 - 08:52 AM

View PostiRolley, on October 4th 2006, 05:03 PM, said:

The Doom3 engine being much more GPU limited than CPU, I guess more load could be put on the CPU. But then I can't figure out if this would help if the GPU is already saturated.

In cases where the GPU is truly saturated and is continuously processing frames without any breather - MT GL will not help.  However, what we found with WoW (and what appears to be the case with DOOM3) is that under single threaded GL on OSX, GPU saturation on OSX was rarely being attained, and so a boost results by properly spreading CPU-side work across both cores.

It is possible to set up situations where you become truly GPU limited - take a low end card and run it at maximum graphical settings - AA, aniso, trilinear, and then add in vsync for example.  But for games which might have moments where they become CPU-limited (specifically in CPU-side code inside OpenGL), MT-GL offers a way to flatten out those dips or eliminate them.

MT-GL *can* raise your top end frame rate if you have your GPU running on light settings.  It can also pull up your bottom end frame rates and give you less variance between top and bottom end FPS.  All in all very scene and setting dependent.

In the best case MT-GL can yield a doubling of frame rates and this has been experimentally observed..

It should also be pointed out that there are other improvements in OpenGL that already appeared in 10.4.7 for Intel, that can help games - specifically the buffer-range extension and the gpu_program_parameters extension - both aimed at reducing overhead for frequent key operations.  Now we have MT-GL in 10.4.8 for Intel and this is good news for us.