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Neverwinter Nights 2 system requirements.


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#21 Huntn

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Posted 11 November 2006 - 08:10 AM

View PostTetsuya, on November 11th 2006, 06:57 AM, said:

if Oblivion is your idea of a great non-linear RPG, then real RPGs in general arent for you.  I just cant stand all the useless press that game gets... 95% of the content is RandomDungoen 19333a with level-scaled mobs.  Oblivion is still Linear - to advance the plot you have to do the quest in order, one at a time.  Just because you can ignore the plot to go do a few side-quests and assault RandomlyGeneratedDungeonContent (run-on fully intended) for the 3.000th time doesnt make it non-linear.

Real RPG? Your expressing a debatable opinion. Although I said a linear game is not for me (thinking of RPGs), in actuality I would not dismiss it soly for being lineal. But if the choice in an RPG was between a highly lineal and non-lineal game, I would most likely choose non-linear. For whatever reason linear solo FPSs don't not bother me at all.

I agree that traditional RPGs have involved a party. As such Oblivion would not qualify as being traditional, but it still includes the primary basis of RPGs, character class and development, experience and leveling. I'm not sure of the sales numbers but the game appears to appeal to a large number of people.  But if you don't like Oblivion, that's ok. :)

Linear applies to both the sequence of events in a game and the ability to explore a level. When I think of linear, I focus on level linearity, a game that offers alleys to explore. I view it as a limitation of the graphics/content or the developer's desire to lead you by the hand.  There may be branches but they are still alleys. Btw, many think Oblivion does too much leading by the hand too, but that can be mitigated by means of mods that take away the automatic map markers and the compass. Oblivion as well as WoW offer wide open, go anywhere you want spaces. Cyrodiil, the provence in Oblvion is one huge open area. Adding to the aspect of immersion IMO is to the ability to wander over the countryside, anywhere that is accessible. I also prefer to have control of the camera or if there is no angle control have it close to the ground (like Oblivion). My understanding is that NWN2 offers more than isometric camera angles which is very good.

Oblivion offers a mix of linear and non-linear quests. The main quest is only one of a large number of quests available. Many argue that the side quests content is much better than the main quest. As you know there are Mage guild quests, Fighter guild quests, thieves guild, Dark Brotherhood, training quests, Daedric quests, etc, etc. I did not play Morrowind, but one of the primary critiques of Oblivion as compared to Morrowind is that there are not as many of alternate quest chains. But there still seems a lot to me. BTW, did you play and like Morrowind? (Just curious)

Regarding linear objectives, yes the main quest must be done in a certain order. But take a look at the Mage quests, a series of recommendation quests required to become eligible for the Arcane University. The player must go to the Mage guild hall in each town and complete a recommendation quest and there is no order what so ever. Another example is The Collector Quest where you explore Ayleid ruins looking for ancient statues. There are Ayleid ruins all over the place and you can explore them in an order you desire. My current quest log has about 15 quests in it and only one is associated with the main quest.

While all games have some linear aspect to them, Oblivion is not a linear game. Linear objectives are ok, but my hope is that NWN 2 displays a minimal amount of level linearity.

Edited by Huntn, 18 November 2006 - 05:10 AM.


#22 Hewkii

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Posted 11 November 2006 - 12:17 PM

NWN2 is one of those games where the system requirements are much higher then what is stated. another example that I can think of at the moment is the not so succesful Redjack: Revenge of the Brethren.

#23 Huntn

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Posted 11 November 2006 - 06:12 PM

View PostHewkii, on November 11th 2006, 12:17 PM, said:

NWN2 is one of those games where the system requirements are much higher then what is stated. another example that I can think of at the moment is the not so succesful Redjack: Revenge of the Brethren.

Welcome to the IMG forums!

Does anyone dare make a comparison of NWN2 with Oblivion? How is NWN2 better? (No agenda here, just want to know about NWN2) :)

Edited by Huntn, 12 November 2006 - 07:53 PM.


#24 Ichigo27

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Posted 12 November 2006 - 03:03 PM

Aside from camera issues as well as bugs, it looks like it's worth playing.
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#25 kingarthur_kom

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Posted 12 November 2006 - 06:33 PM

View PostIchigo27, on November 12th 2006, 03:03 PM, said:

Aside from camera issues as well as bugs, it looks like it's worth playing.

Yep sure is fun. It requires a Community Expansion Pack badly though. Not much variation on choices of heads etc. Plus I miss my shiny armor. :(

#26 tdc

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Posted 16 November 2006 - 09:08 PM

View PostHuntn, on November 11th 2006, 07:12 PM, said:

Welcome to the IMG forums!

Does anyone dare make a comparison of NWN2 with Oblivion? How is NWN2 better? (No agenda here, just want to know about NWN2) :)

I prefer the fighting system in NWN2 to the first person viewpoint of Oblivion.  In theory, NWN2 demands more attention in regards to what weapon you are using, what buffs you have on you, what spell you are casting, which party member you're controlling.  I say "in theory" because NWN2 fights can be pretty easily simplified if you just buff your best fighter to the teeth and let him run over everything.  If one party member lives, the rest auto-rez...  :huh:

NWN2 has some funny moments too.

I suppose it's big wildcard is the toolset and what the gamers will do with it.

But if you are coming  from Oblivion and haven't played other games in the NWN2 series, I'd recommed getting Baldur's Gate 2 or NWN1 before you shell out 50 bucks.

#27 Tomatocow

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Posted 16 November 2006 - 10:26 PM

View Posttdc, on November 17th 2006, 12:08 PM, said:

I prefer the fighting system in NWN2 to the first person viewpoint of Oblivion.

While playing Oblivion I prefer to fight in third-person view.

#28 Huntn

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Posted 17 November 2006 - 04:17 AM

View PostTomatocow, on November 16th 2006, 10:26 PM, said:

While playing Oblivion I prefer to fight in third-person view.

From a situational awareness standpoint so do I.

View Posttdc, on November 16th 2006, 09:08 PM, said:

I prefer the fighting system in NWN2 to the first person viewpoint of Oblivion.  In theory, NWN2 demands more attention in regards to what weapon you are using, what buffs you have on you, what spell you are casting, which party member you're controlling.  I say "in theory" because NWN2 fights can be pretty easily simplified if you just buff your best fighter to the teeth and let him run over everything.  If one party member lives, the rest auto-rez...  :huh:

NWN2 has some funny moments too.

I suppose it's big wildcard is the toolset and what the gamers will do with it.

But if you are coming  from Oblivion and haven't played other games in the NWN2 series, I'd recommed getting Baldur's Gate 2 or NWN1 before you shell out 50 bucks.

I do think having party members is nice to have. As I recall, party members in NWN (original) did not auto rez if they died- they stayed dead. Oblivion allows first or 3rd person view. Can you change the camera angle in NWN2? I remember reading that. If it is true, I wonder how many gamers will choose isometric view over the other angles available?

#29 Tesseract

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Posted 17 November 2006 - 02:00 PM

View PostHuntn, on November 17th 2006, 09:17 PM, said:

As I recall, party members in NWN (original) did not auto rez if they died- they stayed dead.
Actually, they did. They popped up in the temple of Tyr, good as new.

#30 Tetsuya

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Posted 17 November 2006 - 02:25 PM

yes but in NWN2 they auto-rez on the spot after you drop out of combat, like KOTOR/2

You can tell this game was developed by Obsidian.

the story is great.  the technical parts of the game are... man I miss Bioware.

the controls are clunky and feel like it was developed for a console (like, say, Kotor 2? hmm.. seeing any themes here?) and the system requirements are absurdly high.  The framerates suffer horribly on even the fastest hardware on the block.

shipped too early, with the wrong developer at the helm.  it Feels like Knights of Never Nights, not Neverwinter Nights 2.  And that isnt a good thing.

#31 Huntn

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Posted 18 November 2006 - 05:06 AM

View PostTesseract, on November 17th 2006, 02:00 PM, said:

Actually, they did. They popped up in the temple of Tyr, good as new.

What a pain when one of your party member dies during a fight! In NWN, I just thought they were dead. So you have to travel across country to fetch them or for all intents and purposes are they gone from your party?

#32 Hewkii

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Posted 18 November 2006 - 09:14 AM

View PostHuntn, on November 18th 2006, 06:06 AM, said:

What a pain when one of your party member dies during a fight! In NWN, I just thought they were dead. So you have to travel across country to fetch them or for all intents and purposes are they gone from your party?
you had that stone for a reason you know...

#33 Huntn

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Posted 18 November 2006 - 10:55 AM

View PostTetsuya, on November 17th 2006, 02:25 PM, said:

the controls are clunky and feel like it was developed for a console (like, say, Kotor 2? hmm.. seeing any themes here?) and the system requirements are absurdly high.

Does clunky controls = consol development or is it a case by case basis depending on how much effort the developer puts into it? This might be a good discussion point. I know Oblivion was developed for both the PC and consol at the same time, but I don't notice any clunky controls. Overall I'm very pleased with how it handles.



View PostHewkii, on November 18th 2006, 09:14 AM, said:

you had that stone for a reason you know...

Is that a stone to tranport me? I think I remember something like that.

#34 Tetsuya

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Posted 18 November 2006 - 01:09 PM

View PostHuntn, on November 18th 2006, 09:55 AM, said:

Does clunky controls = consol development or is it a case by case basis depending on how much effort the developer puts into it? This might be a good discussion point. I know Oblivion was developed for both the PC and consol at the same time, but I don't notice any clunky controls. Overall I'm very pleased with how it handles.

I couldnt stand the way Oblivion controlled - it was like having an epileptic fit with some stroke seizure thrown in.  It was obviously dumbed down for a console controller which made it suffer tremendously when ported back to the PC.  None of the keybindings were intuitive, too many of them were modifiers from other keys (press X to do this, press SHIFT-X to do this other thing, then COntrol-X to do thing 3) instead of using different keys.  

KOTOR 2, if you played it, was almost entirely the same.  It was released first for Xbox and it shows.  The simple little 3 button things above everyones head coupled with the way the mouse control seemed tacked on screamed "YOURE PLAYING AN XBOX GAME ON THE PC, STUPID!" at me.  

Unfortunately, all the BAD things about KOTOR 2 seem to have made it into NWN 2's controls.  The contextual radial menu is just gone - replaced with a one (controller) button does-all thing, a WoW style action bar system which is totally innapropriate, and the graphics just dont look like all that good for the insanely high system reqs (it runs like poo on 1024x768 with the shadows turned way down and some of the extra graphics goodies turnd off, on my shiny new Mac Pro).  PC Gamer commented on the same thing - it ran like dog doo on their high-end testing systems, and for no good reason since the game doesnt look a great deal better than KOTOR2 or even NWN 1.

#35 StopDropBurn

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Posted 18 November 2006 - 09:34 PM

View PostHuntn, on November 18th 2006, 11:55 AM, said:

Is that a stone to tranport me? I think I remember something like that.

Yep, you can just use that stone to pop into the temple, pick up your teammates, then pop right back to where you were... for a price.
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#36 Huntn

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Posted 19 November 2006 - 04:00 PM

View PostTetsuya, on November 18th 2006, 01:09 PM, said:

I couldnt stand the way Oblivion controlled - it was like having an epileptic fit with some stroke seizure thrown in.  It was obviously dumbed down for a console controller which made it suffer tremendously when ported back to the PC.  None of the keybindings were intuitive, too many of them were modifiers from other keys (press X to do this, press SHIFT-X to do this other thing, then COntrol-X to do thing 3) instead of using different keys.

I'm using a Nostromo N52 programmable gaming device along with a 5 button MS Trackball Explorer. All of my controls are mapped into either device with modifiers as needed included in one key stroke. The game handles great without clunkiness. Something to consider. :)

#37 Tetsuya

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Posted 19 November 2006 - 07:26 PM

except that part where you have to have an epileptic fit to swing your sword.  Also, having used a 3rd party gaming device to correct the problems with the controls, (ive had a Nostromo for some time) you cant really say that the game, as shipped, had good controls.  You had to fix them.

#38 Huntn

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Posted 21 November 2006 - 11:09 PM

View PostTetsuya, on November 19th 2006, 07:26 PM, said:

except that part where you have to have an epileptic fit to swing your sword.  Also, having used a 3rd party gaming device to correct the problems with the controls, (ive had a Nostromo for some time) you cant really say that the game, as shipped, had good controls.  You had to fix them.

I need to go take a look and see if I have any Oblivion key commands needing modifiers. Usually the problem I run into with many games is that there is not enough space on a standard keyboard to make all the commands convenient or that some commands need modifiers. As in WoW where I think I remember to scroll through tool bars required a modifier (maybe- I'm getting hazy on WoW). As for many WWII shooter that have multiple keys for stand, crouch, laydown. The Nostromo 8 way thumb disk (not scroll wheel) is outstanding for this purpose.

But it's a problem that has been around before the Mac/PC started getting games ported from consols. So just because controls are clunky, I would not necessarily blame it being a consol port, because usually if you can program them, it can be fixed one way or another. The exception seemed to be Gothic 2 which had really awkward controls (fixed in G3).

Bottom line it's not an issue for me as I use a programmable trackball which is also a third party device and I could not game without my mouse/trackball.

#39 Huntn

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Posted 20 December 2006 - 10:34 PM

View Posttdc, on November 16th 2006, 09:08 PM, said:

I prefer the fighting system in NWN2 to the first person viewpoint of Oblivion.  In theory, NWN2 demands more attention in regards to what weapon you are using, what buffs you have on you, what spell you are casting, which party member you're controlling.  I say "in theory" because NWN2 fights can be pretty easily simplified if you just buff your best fighter to the teeth and let him run over everything.  If one party member lives, the rest auto-rez...  :huh:

I might have missed an answer, but does NWN2 have open levels  (like WoW or Oblivion) or does it set you out on paths from one place to another (like NWN or Fable) that really can't be strayed from?

Also my search for a NWN2 demo has come up empty handed.
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#40 Tetsuya

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Posted 21 December 2006 - 04:38 PM

"Open levels" does not inherently = better game.  Oblivion VS NWN2 is actually a pretty good example of this.  The NWN2 story is very engaging. You *care* about the other characters, even your own character (SPOILER - the Trial was one of the best parts of any RPG ive played in a long time.  Lose the trial?  you die. SPOILER over). Did Oblivion *have* a story?  I cant remember, that's how lame and not-involving it was.  

NWN 2 doesnt really have "levels" it has "areas".  You can usually freely move between any of the area's on the world map during any given chapter.  

Oblivion wasnt much of an RPG.  you werent playing a role, really.  The other characters were all interchangeable, and the core story was so laughably lame you could ignore it.  NWN2, KOTOR, and KOTOR2 are all relatively linear games.  They also have stories that make me want to play them, and care about the characters, and keep playing for hours after i should go to bed to see what the next plot twist is.  you simply CANNOT say that about Oblivion.