36 replies to this topic

[IMG News]

A recent article at The Mac Observer by Brad Cook sheds a bit more light on how TransGaming's Cider could cause a paradigm shift in the Mac gaming market. In case you missed the announcement last week, Cider is a new wrapping technology that allows Windows games to run on Intel Macs without the need for massive time-consuming ports.

According to the article, TransGaming has no plans to license Cider to companies such as Aspyr or MacSoft, instead dealing directly with PC publishers.

Here's a quote:

With such current Mac publishers as Aspyr and MacSoft typically spending months to bring games to the Mac, Mr. State said: "We imagine that they are re-evaluating their business models. Our technology does revolutionize how games are brought to the Mac, which we believe will result in a paradigm shift in the Mac game publishing landscape." He added that TransGaming has no plans to license Cider to other companies, but "we are always open to discussion."

The implications are far reaching and could have a dramatic impact on Mac gaming if Cider is used by publishers such as UbiSoft, Electronic Arts, and Activision, shutting out the Mac publishers such as Aspyr and MacSoft. One of the things that concerns us is that most PC publishers do not know the Mac games market, how to market to it, provide good technical support, etc.

For more on this interesting article, follow the link below.

Return to Full Article - InsideMacGames News

[nagromme]

I can see the risk: if big lengthy ports aren't needed as much, the people who do that porting will face a challenge. I hope they keep on contributing to the Mac game scene in a new way even if the extreme does happen. (Which remains to be seen.)

[the Battle Cat]

Boot Camp is a punch to the guts, Cider is a knee to the face.  I don't think a Chuck Norris roundhouse kick is going to be needed to clean the porting industry's clock.

[wymer100]

It seems odd to me that they wouldn't be working with the current mac publishers like Aspyr and Macsoft. I can see TransGaming working like the old Westlake Interactive in doing the "port" and handing it off to a mac publisher to provide all of the other business, support, and logistical issues. I understand the desire to go to the big publishers with this technology, but until the mac marketshare gets into double digits, I don't see the big publishers really caring whether they have a mac version. It's the classic small business syndrone of overvaluing their intellectual property. It may be great, but there's not going to be this huge influx of interest. Their business model needs to reflect that. Rome wasn't built in a day.

[cdnWolverine]

Replace both Aspyr and MacSoft as far as I'm concerned. Both companies have done piss-poor jobs at supporting the products they port.

Seven months later after the Intel move, and they still can't provide a patch for the games they ported, even huge ones like Neverwinter Nights or KOTOR. Look at http://guides.macrum...al_Binary_Games and practically every listing of Aspyr doesn't have a Universal Binary with MacSoft not faring any better.

Bring in Cider, the faster and the more the better.

[Brad Oliver]

cdnWolverine, on August 9th 2006, 01:44 PM, said:

Seven months later after the Intel move, and they still can't provide a patch for the games they ported, even huge ones like Neverwinter Nights or KOTOR.

What an odd coincidence that you mention those 2 games. Both are very dependent on a third-party sound library, for which we have been promised many times a Universal Binary but as of yet have not seen.

Edit: Hey, I just noticed from your nick that you're probably Canadian - and a first time poster. Did you know TransGaming are also Canadian, based in Toronto? Welcome!

[Hobeaux]

cdnWolverine, on August 9th 2006, 01:44 PM, said:

Replace both Aspyr and MacSoft as far as I'm concerned. Both companies have done piss-poor jobs at supporting the products they port.

Seven months later after the Intel move, and they still can't provide a patch for the games they ported, even huge ones like Neverwinter Nights or KOTOR. Look at http://guides.macrum...al_Binary_Games and practically every listing of Aspyr doesn't have a Universal Binary with MacSoft not faring any better.

Bring in Cider, the faster and the more the better.

As tempting as it is to blame them, you have to realize that they're a business and they do work for their clients. Moving things over to Universal can be easy or daunting, depending on the complexity of the project at hand. Unless the client (the publisher and/or developer) isn't willing to foot the bill for the update then it's not going to happen. I'm sure you don't want Aspyr or MacSoft to work for free, do you?

[Frigidman]

Cider is a pipe dream. One that is over hyped with nothing to show for itself.

And you think a "PC" company is going to give a rats asshole about the Mac in terms of support ??? LOL Oh my goodness, that just made me bust a gut laughing... wow... good one.


Edit:
Why play a quick and crappy port (wrapped windows game on the mac?), when you could just bootcamp to windows and play it native. I for one would rather buy a properly ported game to the Mac by a company that will actually support their Made-For-Mac product. Aspyr and Macsoft (and a nice big list of others) are all very dedicated to what they do. I'd like to see Mac gamers try and get ANY sort of support out of someone like Ubisoft... lol... wow, that's just painful to think about.

[bobbob]

Frigidman, on August 9th 2006, 01:53 PM, said:

over hyped with nothing to show for itself

Cedega seems to work ok with HL2, so it's not 'nothing'. Presumably paid-for ports using Cider, on a stable platform, etc. will work better.

[guategeek]

Frigidman, on August 9th 2006, 02:53 PM, said:

Aspyr and Macsoft (and a nice big list of others) are all very dedicated to what they do. I'd like to see Mac gamers try and get ANY sort of support out of someone like Ubisoft... lol... wow, that's just painful to think about.

No kidding. Take Myst V for example. Its an Ubisoft game ported by beenox (two companies I hate) but I'm a Myst fan so I bought it. Well it crashes all the time on my G5, 4GB RAM, Radeon X800 (in fact its the only thing crashes my comp). So much so that I just quit playing it. If Transgaming dousn't work with the Mac people like MacSoft and Aspire then they are going to be a flop. I know that I personaly won't buy any cider ported game provided by a publisher like Ubisoft. If it was by Aspire or MacSoft on the other hand I would. Jeff

[cdnWolverine]

Hobeaux, on August 9th 2006, 01:52 PM, said:

As tempting as it is to blame them, you have to realize that they're a business and they do work for their clients. Moving things over to Universal can be easy or daunting, depending on the complexity of the project at hand. Unless the client (the publisher and/or developer) isn't willing to foot the bill for the update then it's not going to happen. I'm sure you don't want Aspyr or MacSoft to work for free, do you?

Plenty of game companies provide patches and support after shipping thier product -- it's how the PC (and Mac) game industry works. Do those companies get more money for developing patches? Of course not because I've already paid my $50 to them for thier product. The kings of this are Blizzard (not that they have released a UB patch for Diablo II or anything, but that game IS pushing 8 years old).

Unless the game developers were going to charge $5 for another patch, they won't get paid for further development. Of course EA has already started down this path with the 'map packs' they offered for Ghost Recon Advance Warrior for the PC -- it's not far until they do start charging for required patches.


Brad; being an Aspyr employee, my words probably came off as rather harsh. But having recently bought a Macbook Pro and found a good number of games sluggish-but-acceptable to nigh-unplayable, a good deal of frustration is present with regards to Mac gaming. Your comment about how those games are dependant on another sound codec that hasn't been adapted to the Intel chipset is probably a good indication that the PPC to Intel migration isn't as ros(etta)y as Apple would have us believe.

and yes, I am canadian. Soon to be in Toronto, matter of fact.

[Brad Oliver]

cdnWolverine, on August 9th 2006, 02:50 PM, said:

But having recently bought a Macbook Pro and found a good number of games sluggish-but-acceptable to nigh-unplayable, a good deal of frustration is present with regards to Mac gaming. Your comment about how those games are dependant on another sound codec that hasn't been adapted to the Intel chipset is probably a good indication that the PPC to Intel migration isn't as ros(etta)y as Apple would have us believe.

FWIW, with regards to the original page you posted, I think it's important to point out that we have in fact promised (or in some cases "wistfully speculated" out loud about) Universal Binary upgrades for a number of our existing games. Those weren't empty promises - most are actively in the works. And I believe we'll have some games moved to Intel that aren't on that list as well when it's all said and done. But as you say, it's not quite as rosy a picture as we'd like when it comes to migrating them for various reasons. Manpower is one - some lagging middleware is another.

With that said, we have been working on contingency plans for various pieces of middleware that haven't made the jump to Intel (like the aforementioned sound library), so hopefully Mac KOTOR and others will be able to move forward sooner rather than later. It just takes a little more time than we had originally anticipated.

[cdnWolverine]

In retrospect, I suppose I shouldn't be so eager to see Cider displace a traditional porting of the games -- as previously mentioned, companies such as Aspyr and Macsoft have supported the Mac games for some time now.

I can imagine that if PC game companies were to start using Cider over the Mac porting companies, support would and could be a nightmare for for the same reason I mentioned previously -- patches. Say, EA used Cider to wrap Battlefield 2. They could easily stop patching the Mac version of it, thinking that it's too much of a pain to keep the software at parity. There's been a few times through Quake 3 and UT where I couldn't play with my friends either due to a bad mod, or a patch a few days out.

In the future of course, when these games come out from Aspyr and Macsoft, and are already UB .. well, then it won't matter.

Just growing pains at this point.

[teflon]

people have to factor in that Aspyr still want to support the PPC market, which would still result in more sales than simply targetting the the intel side of things (which Cider will work for exclusively)..

so in the short term i dont really see this as a problem. But if Cider becomes the new Havok (ridiculous fees for certain companies) then id rather choose Aspyr and Macsoft over Transgaming technology... not to mention that Im currently still on PPC.

this smacks of ridiculousness and stupidity of a scale ive not seen in a while...

[Lampeft]

Frigidman, on August 9th 2006, 01:53 PM, said:

Cider is a pipe dream. One that is over hyped with nothing to show for itself.

Nicely said.  My experience with the company's other product, Cedega ("Play Windows games on Linux!!") has been one of frustration and greatly lowered expectations.  I'd imagine that Cider will be no more a panacea for playing Windows games in OS X.

[tthiel]

PPC sales are dead both hardware and software. Buh-bye.  I don't think anyone knows for sure how good Cider is yet. But PC game companies want to make money like any other company and if they can get into the demographically desirable Mac market (more disposable income on average, buy more software etc) I don't see why they wouldnt do that especially if it continues to grow.  I don't see any advantage in cider working with Mac porting companies.  Why involve a middleman if you can go right to the source?  Any way you slice it Mac game companies better start looking for other sources of revenue.

[DaveyJJ]

Brad Oliver, on August 9th 2006, 04:52 PM, said:

Did you know TransGaming are also Canadian, based in Toronto? Welcome!

They are?? I drove down there tonight (an hour) tonight to pick up a piece of my finished digital art (the first one on artspin.com). I'll drop round their offices the next time with a wish list of questions from developers.

[dorkhero]

Maybe this exactly the 'kick to the seat of the pants' Mac game companies need to get them to start developing ORIGNAL games.

[Brad Oliver]

dorkhero, on August 9th 2006, 08:32 PM, said:

Maybe this exactly the 'kick to the seat of the pants' Mac game companies need to get them to start developing ORIGNAL games.

That, and money.

[Eric5h5]

Brad Oliver, on August 10th 2006, 12:07 AM, said:

That, and money.

I thought you of all people would know better.  Game models, graphics, and code grow on trees, so all you have to do is go out and pick some, throw 'em into a jar, shake vigorously, and presto!  A new game!  I have no idea why more people don't do that.

--Eric