Jump to content


TransGaming Announces Cider


  • Please log in to reply
70 replies to this topic

#1 IMG News

IMG News

    Pimpbot 4000

  • IMG Writers
  • 8622 posts
  • Pro Member:Yes

Posted 03 August 2006 - 08:34 AM

TransGaming today announced Cider, a software portability engine for Apple’s Intel based Macs that the company promises will change the landscape of Mac gaming. With Cider, video game developers and publishers can deploy their Windows-based titles on Apple’s new Intel Mac - quickly, easily, and without the need for traditional porting.

Here's more from the press release:

TransGaming’s Cider portability engine will serve as a tremendous asset to video game developers and publishers by allowing them to release a Windows and Mac version of their titles simultaneously, eliminating the need for time consuming and expensive porting. Cider represents a huge win-win for Mac gamers and developers/publishers: it quenches the thirst for more games on Mac and increases the revenue opportunities for publishers through the increased distribution of their titles on the rapidly growing Intel Mac platform.


“TransGaming’s Cider product will change the landscape of the Mac gaming market. Mac gamers have always patiently waited many months for access to only a handful of titles. With Cider, game developers and publishers can easily extend their triple A portfolio to Intel Mac without any effort or delay which means that avid Mac gamers will have access to triple A video games coincidental with the Windows release”, said Vikas Gupta, President and CEO of TransGaming.


The Cider portability engine is targeted at video game developers and publishers and TransGaming already has agreements in place with a number of the top tier video game publishers to bring their titles to the Intel Mac. Mac gamers can expect the release of these titles in the next few months.
Here's a bit more info about how Cider works:

Cider is a sophisticated portability engine that allows Windows games to be run on Intel Macs without any modifications to the original game source code. Cider works by directly loading a Windows program into memory on an Intel-Mac and linking it to an optimized version of the Win32 APIs. Games are simply wrapped up in the Cider engine and they work on the Mac. This means developers only have one code base to maintain while keeping the ability to target multiple platforms. Cider powered games use the same copy protection, lobbies, game matching and connectivity as the original. All this means less work and lower costs. Cider is targeted at game developers and publishers and, unlike Cedega, is not an end user product.
Could the end of porting be really at hand? We'll have more on Cider in the coming days. Until then, check out official Cider web site below.
Return to Full Article - InsideMacGames News


#2 hambone

hambone

    Legendary

  • IMG Writers
  • 890 posts
  • Location:Toronto -- Land of the rising snow

Posted 03 August 2006 - 08:35 AM

Anyone want to buy a slightly used copy of WinXP?  :D

I thought CodeWarrior is working on a similar product geared towards productivity apps, but which could also be used for games?

#3 jgwdoc

jgwdoc

    Legendary

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 997 posts
  • Location:New York, NY

Posted 03 August 2006 - 08:43 AM

This sounds amazing. In fact, it's made me opt out of putting WindowsXP on my kid's new MBP. Any comments from the knowledgable out there?
Home: MacPro 2x3.0 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon/16GB RAM/ATI HD5770,1GB VRAM/Snow Leopard/Windows 7
Travel: MacbookPro 2.9GHz Quadcore i7/16GB RAM/1TB SSD/Radeon Pro560 with 4GB VRAM/Sierra/Windows 10

Beach: iMac 3.5GHz Quad-core Intel Core i7, Turbo-boost to 3.9GHz/16GB RAM/Sierra/Windows10/GeForce GTX 780M 4GB

#4 Blackshawk

Blackshawk

    Narcissist Extraordinaire

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1790 posts
  • Location:Blackshawk Inc.

Posted 03 August 2006 - 08:50 AM

Bloody. If it does what they say it does, this will revolutionize the market. Now we won't have to wait over a year for games like Imperial Glory after they're announced......... In fact, if the porting houses play their cards right, we could see simultaneous launches of titles across the Mac/Windows gulf.
I Can't Feel My Torso – Your Gaming Fix From Blackshawk

I'm going to the vet to get tutored.

#5 wymer100

wymer100

    Heroic

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 272 posts
  • Location:Groton, CT USA

Posted 03 August 2006 - 09:06 AM

I'd be great if it works. I'm withholding judgement until either we see a shipping product that uses this technology or Glenda Adams (or compatriots) says that it might actually work. I'd love to see this not be vaporware. Aspyr could very easily make a mac version of the game and still get revenue. I wonder how hard it would be for them to loan out their services to another publisher to allow for a mac version in the box? They could still get revenue without paying distribution costs.

#6 hambone

hambone

    Legendary

  • IMG Writers
  • 890 posts
  • Location:Toronto -- Land of the rising snow

Posted 03 August 2006 - 09:10 AM

i dont think this technology would be used to make a separate mac version with its own SKU, boxes, and distribution. rather, the goal of this technology is to produce hybrind releases like Blizzard has always done. there is no point in supporting the same broken, limited and expensive distribution channels that has always been a big problem in Mac gaming when it will be so easy for the first-party developers to implement this directly into their main release.

#7 nagromme

nagromme

    Master Blaster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1954 posts

Posted 03 August 2006 - 09:12 AM

If something sounds too good to be true... well, there's still some hope that it might be :)

I'm thinking that if it DOES work:

1. It will cause some CPU overhead. 5%? 20%? I'm curious.

BUT, I would guess:

2. The chips in an Intel Mac (multi-core, no less) are fast enough to swallow that overhead. Even Core Solo is a very fast chip by top-end desktop standards from not long ago. And Macs with good graphics boards will be moving to Core 2 soon.

This could be bad for PPC owners if Mac porting houses decide not to port for them. (And bad for Mac porters if they suddenly have less work to pay their bills. I say make up for it by converting MANY games in the time you would have spent :) )

#8 ajmas

ajmas

    Fan

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 41 posts

Posted 03 August 2006 - 09:17 AM

This sounds good, but the question is now whether game companies are willing to put the effort into doing the compilation for MacOS X.

As for performance, well there is bound to be some overhead, though if they provide this in a form of a library, that games just need to link to, then hopefully as they provide performance increases to the library you will simply need to swap out the old one.

What they need to do is start by working with a small collection of games developers and then providing examples of games that use it. This would help convince those who aren't sure.

#9 Cougar

Cougar

    Legendary

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1371 posts
  • Steam Name:FuzzyPuffin

Posted 03 August 2006 - 09:25 AM

I wonder how much this will cost the developers...

From the FAQ: "The business model for Cider is based on a revenue share with the publisher with no upfront fee, no risk and lots of upside potential."

No Risk. Sounds good.

#10 bobbob

bobbob

    Uberspewer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3367 posts

Posted 03 August 2006 - 09:38 AM

View Posthambone, on August 3rd 2006, 07:35 AM, said:

I thought CodeWarrior is working on a similar product geared towards productivity apps, but which could also be used for games?

Freescale/Motorolla's CodeWarrior, the one that ditched the Mac rather than continue development for X86? Freescale/Motorolla's CodeWarrior, the one with the Libraries of Stagnation beside the River of Perpetual Embedded Development? Freescale/Motorolla's CodeWarrior, the one that time forgot somewhere between the far past and 2001? I doubt they were doing it, and if they are I doubt it be worth using.

#11 nagromme

nagromme

    Master Blaster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1954 posts

Posted 03 August 2006 - 09:39 AM

I have to say, if my Mac Pro can run Need For Speed Most Wanted (say) at 100 fps, native in OS X, vs. the grief of rebooting and buying a license for Windows to get a Ciderless 110 fps, well... I'll gladly let the Windows users brag about the extra 10 fps, and enjoy my OS X gaming :) I'll also enjoy not wasting my life trying to secure Windows from viruses--which is not a fun part of gaming.

#12 gromit

gromit

    Heroic

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 308 posts

Posted 03 August 2006 - 09:42 AM

View PostCougar, on August 3rd 2006, 11:25 AM, said:

I wonder how much this will cost the developers...

From the FAQ: "The business model for Cider is based on a revenue share with the publisher with no upfront fee, no risk and lots of upside potential."

No Risk. Sounds good.

That FAQ is worth a read.  It sounds like Transgaming is looking to take the place of the traditional Mac porting houses, not work with them.  So, if it works (a BIG if) this could be very, very bad news for Aspyr.

On the other hand, if I understand the business model correctly, Aspyr licenses its titles, whereas Transgaming is looking for the original publishers to cover the (supposedly minimal) costs of development.  In other words, Aspyr was assuming all the risk to start out with.  If I'm not mistaken, that is.

Of course, the whole thing has a "too good to be true" aroma about it.

#13 Tuncer (IMG)

Tuncer (IMG)

    Pimpbot 5000

  • Admin
  • 923 posts
  • Location:Calgary, Canada
  • Pro Member:Yes

Posted 03 August 2006 - 09:49 AM

This could actually be a boon for Aspyr and the like. Remember that a lot of those PC companies have little to zero interest in selling their games on the Mac. Aspyr and others have the knowledge, marketing, and distribution know-how that a lot of PC publishers lack.

I would imagine that if Cider works as good as it sounds like it does, we will see many more Mac games on the market from both the traditional Mac publishers and PC publishers.
Tuncer
Inside Mac Games

Twitter - http://www.twitter.com/tuncerdeniz

#14 atari

atari

    Notorious

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 243 posts
  • Location:Vienna,Austria

Posted 03 August 2006 - 09:52 AM

View Postgromit, on August 3rd 2006, 05:42 PM, said:

That FAQ is worth a read.  It sounds like Transgaming is looking to take the place of the traditional Mac porting houses, not work with them.  So, if it works (a BIG if) this could be very, very bad news for Aspyr.

On the other hand, if I understand the business model correctly, Aspyr licenses its titles, whereas Transgaming is looking for the original publishers to cover the (supposedly minimal) costs of development.  In other words, Aspyr was assuming all the risk to start out with.  If I'm not mistaken, that is.

Of course, the whole thing has a "too good to be true" aroma about it.

You nailed it,essentially.
It would bypasses any traditional porting.
27 inch quad beastie ordered :)

#15 Blackshawk

Blackshawk

    Narcissist Extraordinaire

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1790 posts
  • Location:Blackshawk Inc.

Posted 03 August 2006 - 09:52 AM

Quote

I have to say, if my Mac Pro can run Need For Speed Most Wanted (say) at 100 fps, native in OS X, vs. the grief of rebooting and buying a license for Windows to get a Ciderless 110 fps
What games run at 100 fps? Whenever I did game design I purposely crippled the engine to 60 fps. Anything slower was the user's fault. At 100 fps it would look like the game was moving in fast forward.
I Can't Feel My Torso – Your Gaming Fix From Blackshawk

I'm going to the vet to get tutored.

#16 macplayer1

macplayer1

    Newbie

  • Members
  • 1 posts

Posted 03 August 2006 - 09:52 AM

my understanding is that there is no cost (i.e. no risk) to the developer/publisher. it's all incremental (and shared) revenue. If this works, it will indeed revolutionize the Mac gaming market...why would any developer previously focused on Windows or consoles not use Cider for Mac?

Also happens that Transgaming is a publicly-listed company (TNG on the Toronto Stock Exchange Venture Market).

#17 Momus

Momus

    Fan

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 45 posts
  • Location:New York

Posted 03 August 2006 - 09:53 AM

View Postgromit, on August 3rd 2006, 08:42 AM, said:

That FAQ is worth a read.  It sounds like Transgaming is looking to take the place of the traditional Mac porting houses, not work with them.  So, if it works (a BIG if) this could be very, very bad news for Aspyr.

On the other hand, if I understand the business model correctly, Aspyr licenses its titles, whereas Transgaming is looking for the original publishers to cover the (supposedly minimal) costs of development.  In other words, Aspyr was assuming all the risk to start out with.  If I'm not mistaken, that is.

Of course, the whole thing has a "too good to be true" aroma about it.

As I read this, there is "risk" for PC publishers:  if they use this Cider product to publish directly to the Mac market, rather than licensing a game to a Mac porting house, then the PC publisher will be responsible for directly supporting the game on the Mac platform.  Surely PC publishers will think twice before getting into the business of supporting their software on another platform.

#18 gromit

gromit

    Heroic

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 308 posts

Posted 03 August 2006 - 09:55 AM

View PostTuncer (IMG), on August 3rd 2006, 11:49 AM, said:

This could actually be a boon for Aspyr and the like. Remember that a lot of those PC companies have little to zero interest in selling their games on the Mac. Aspyr and others have the knowledge, marketing, and distribution know-how that a lot of PC publishers lack.

I would imagine that if Cider works as good as it sounds like it does, we will see many more Mac games on the market from both the traditional Mac publishers and PC publishers.

I guess that's one way to look at it.  And, of course, Aspyr has been hedging its bets by getting into original game development.

#19 Morrigan

Morrigan

    Legendary

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 655 posts

Posted 03 August 2006 - 10:40 AM

how is this different from, say WINE?

#20 hambone

hambone

    Legendary

  • IMG Writers
  • 890 posts
  • Location:Toronto -- Land of the rising snow

Posted 03 August 2006 - 10:46 AM

View Postgromit, on August 3rd 2006, 11:55 AM, said:

I guess that's one way to look at it.  And, of course, Aspyr has been hedging its bets by getting into original game development.

Aspyr is quietly becoming a bigger publisher than most of us realize. I agree with Tuncer that their PC->OSX porting business is likely going to come to an end but that they are very well positioned to profit from Cider with their future titles, and possibly even advising other companies who had not previously considered the Mac market.

Consider the support issue for example. When Cider games are not working someone has to provide support for them. For a traditionally PC-only gaming company to decide to support OSX computers is a serious financial investment and likely a barrier many of them won't take the risk to jump over until there are hard numbers that the Mac gaming market is expanding. On the other hand, Aspyr (and other Mac companies) already have the ability to offer such support, and so can take advantage of Cider immediately and without incurring much risk.

So while the Mac porting industry as we know it is probably dead, my guess is that a new business-to-business opportunity could emerge in which established Mac gaming companies will be able to offer support services and market consulting to PC publishers and developers interesting in tapping the millions of Mac users.