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Will there ever be another good combat flight sim for Mac?


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#21 Gamecuber

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Posted 22 August 2006 - 05:01 AM

View PostFlojomojo, on August 21st 2006, 09:44 PM, said:

It seems that combat flight sims, like adventure games have simply gone out of fashion. The last big one was Freespace 2, over five years ago, and everyone says the sales were terrible.

It's a shame, because these are my favorite two genres. These days, WW2 and gory FPS games are dominating the market. Bleah. No wonder I'm seeking out old hardware to run old games.

We need a program like SCUMM VM to run the old LucasArts flight sims!

You've said it !  FPS games are nice but it seems that's all we're getting these days.
As far as SCUMM is concerned, I can only concur. Imagine being able to play X-Wing vs Tie Fighter again, or even the original X-Wing and Tie-Fighter. What a blast !

View PostJanichsan, on August 21st 2006, 02:32 PM, said:

X2 plays very much like Wing Commander - though it's not a pure space combat flight sim... and runs like crap on Intel Macs.

I know, it looks nice enough. Only thing is, I have a G4/800 Quicksilver with a 32Mb Radeon 7500 and it would run even more crappy than on an Intel Mac  :(

#22 Batcat

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Posted 22 August 2006 - 06:30 AM

View PostGamecuber, on August 22nd 2006, 06:01 AM, said:

I know, it looks nice enough. Only thing is, I have a G4/800 Quicksilver with a 32Mb Radeon 7500 and it would run even more crappy than on an Intel Mac  :(
That's another reason there aren't more ports. Serious sims tend to be hardware-intensive games with high system requirements, and the small installed base of capable machinery is a further limiting factor.

#23 Janichsan

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Posted 22 August 2006 - 07:43 AM

View PostFlojomojo, on August 21st 2006, 09:44 PM, said:

We need a program like SCUMM VM to run the old LucasArts flight sims!
Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe runs quite well in the DosBox. I haven't tried Their Finest Hour (I loved this on the Amiga) or Battlehawks 1942 (since I cannot find a copy), but I suppose the do also.

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#24 Jan

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Posted 22 August 2006 - 05:18 PM

View PostFlojomojo, on August 21st 2006, 09:44 PM, said:

It seems that combat flight sims, like adventure games have simply gone out of fashion. The last big one was Freespace 2, over five years ago, and everyone says the sales were terrible.

It's a shame, because these are my favorite two genres. These days, WW2 and gory FPS games are dominating the market. Bleah. No wonder I'm seeking out old hardware to run old games.

We need a program like SCUMM VM to run the old LucasArts flight sims!

I knew the guy was worth it. ;)
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#25 Gamecuber

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Posted 23 August 2006 - 05:08 AM

View PostBatcat, on August 22nd 2006, 02:30 PM, said:

That's another reason there aren't more ports. Serious sims tend to be hardware-intensive games with high system requirements, and the small installed base of capable machinery is a further limiting factor.

Space combat sims seem to need less capable hardware than regular flight sims as in most cases, there's no ground to render. Freespace used to run wonderfully on my Pentium 200 when I was still a PC-user (only in 640x480, mind you) but now it runs super smooth at 1024x768 on my quicksilver. I would already be happy with some mac ports of older games like the aforementioned X-Wing vs Tie-Fighter.
Ports of newer games will never happen, as there aren't even any new space combat games for windows PC's anymore. I guess it's a dying breed.
I can still remember playing Monkey Island 2 and Fate of Atlantis, and then switching over to have a quick blast with Tie Fighter. Ahh, does were the days...

#26 Frost

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Posted 23 August 2006 - 08:29 AM

It's a shame flight sims seem to be dying out on both sides of the OS gulf. I love them to death, but it seems to have boiled down to a limited selection of WWII stuff and then almost nothing at all for folks like me who like modern/space sims. :(
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#27 Janichsan

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Posted 23 August 2006 - 06:24 PM

Give me some good (offline!) WWII sim (for the true and gritty dogfighting), Falcon 5.0 and Elite IV and I'm happy.

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#28 Batcat

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 03:09 AM

View PostGamecuber, on August 23rd 2006, 06:08 AM, said:

Space combat sims seem to need less capable hardware than regular flight sims as in most cases, there's no ground to render. Freespace used to run wonderfully on my Pentium 200 when I was still a PC-user (only in 640x480, mind you) but now it runs super smooth at 1024x768 on my quicksilver.
Hoo. It takes a hella good PC to do justice to X3: The Reunion.

Yeah. Blame Bootcamp for lack of a port.


View PostFrost, on August 23rd 2006, 09:29 AM, said:

It's a shame flight sims seem to be dying out on both sides of the OS gulf. I love them to death, but it seems to have boiled down to a limited selection of WWII stuff and then almost nothing at all for folks like me who like modern/space sims. :(
Sims were declared dead around 2000, but altho diminished, keep refusing to die. See above, IL-2 Sturmovik, Pacific Fighters, Lock-on MAC- hell, even Flanker 2.5 from a few years ago- plus various modern tank, sub, ASW/ surface & combined-arms sims of the last five years, right up to the present. Not at the scale of the mid-late '90s, but not at all dead. See DaveyJJ's thread about BoB II in Windows Gaming.

#29 placy

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 10:38 AM

View PostBatcat, on August 25th 2006, 09:09 AM, said:

Hoo. It takes a hella good PC to do justice to X3: The Reunion.

Yeah. Blame Bootcamp for lack of a port.
Sims were declared dead around 2000, but altho diminished, keep refusing to die. See above, IL-2 Sturmovik, Pacific Fighters, Lock-on MAC- hell, even Flanker 2.5 from a few years ago- plus various modern tank, sub, ASW/ surface & combined-arms sims of the last five years, right up to the present. Not at the scale of the mid-late '90s, but not at all dead. See DaveyJJ's thread about BoB II in Windows Gaming.

There are plans for a Silent Hunter 4 sub sim for the PC:

http://www.gamespot....tml?sid=6156326

#30 DaveyJJ

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 11:43 AM

View Postplacy, on August 25th 2006, 12:38 PM, said:

There are plans for a Silent Hunter 4 sub sim for the PC:

http://www.gamespot....tml?sid=6156326

Hope fully this one won't employ StarForce. Which was the reason I sold mine back to EB Games.

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#31 Huntn

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 10:08 AM

Although flight sims are mostly dead, they are more dead for native mac apps. On the PC enough of a trickle of titles keeps appearing to keep virtual pilots semi-happy. ;)

#32 Fourth Horseman

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 03:48 PM

View PostHuntn, on August 26th 2006, 10:08 AM, said:

Although flight sims are mostly dead, they are more dead for native mac apps. On the PC enough of a trickle of titles keeps appearing to keep virtual pilots semi-happy. ;)

The mod groups have kept Falcon 4 alive and kicking on the PC side through the drought, thank the gods.
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#33 Batcat

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 04:26 AM

They kept it alive long enough to be bought and commercialized by Graphsim, anyway.

I think Ubi gave Starforce the boot... meanwhile there's a fine air/ surface/ sub warfare sim by Sonalysts. Name escapes me, but it's current.

#34 Fourth Horseman

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 10:31 PM

View PostBatcat, on August 30th 2006, 04:26 AM, said:

They kept it alive long enough to be bought and commercialized by Graphsim, anyway.

The FreeFalcon guys say they're on track to release the next version of their mod pack, Free Falcon 4. We'll see. Modding of Falcon 4 may not be dead with the Lead Pursuit / Graphsim re-release of Falcon.
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#35 Janichsan

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 10:56 PM

View PostBatcat, on August 30th 2006, 12:26 PM, said:

I think Ubi gave Starforce the boot... meanwhile there's a fine air/ surface/ sub warfare sim by Sonalysts. Name escapes me, but it's current.
Dangerous Waters or something?

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#36 Batcat

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Posted 31 August 2006 - 03:30 AM

Dangerous Waters sounds very familiar. Yep, that's it:

http://www.3dgamers....angerouswaters/

#37 WSTE_M

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Posted 31 August 2006 - 05:59 AM

not for mac; not interested.

W
blowing stuff up in the virtual world since 1994

#38 Morrigan

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Posted 31 August 2006 - 10:05 AM

View PostWSTE_M, on August 31st 2006, 06:59 AM, said:

not for mac; not interested.
W
of course it is for mac... intel mac with bootcamp set up!

#39 Rank Xerox

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Posted 04 September 2006 - 02:48 AM

View PostHuntn, on August 1st 2006, 05:20 AM, said:

If there is indeed a virtual wind tunnel for testing virtual aircraft, I'm interested in hearing about it. My understanding is that many/most entertainment flight sims use charts of data to determine how a plane should act. For a realistic sim, those charts would be based on the real aircraft. The weakest aspect of charts is that the aircraft is only going to do what the charts say. In cases of unstable flight like stalls and spins flight performance is not usually realistically represented.

One exception that I know about is X-Plane where the program actually reads the drag/lift coefficients of different parts of the airframe to determine performance although I won't claim it does a better job of simulating unstable flight.

If you're still interested in the Windtunnel used by the developers to WWII Online should you check out this site. It is created by the fellow that wrote the Windtunnel for CRS.

There is lots of other good stuff at that site too. Like how the damage model and bullets work. Just an introducing excerpt to tempt you with:  ;)

Quote

In a World War II aircraft simulation, accuracy of the aircraft weapons is  paramount.  To that end this involves modeling every round, ensuring accurate trajectories, using accurate ammo sequencing (belting), and providing an accurate collision detection and terminal ballistics system.

Accurate trajectories required a high-quality bullet position and velocity model.  To accomplish this, WW2OL uses the G1 ballistics formula, which accurately models the drag applied to a bullet during flight.  A simple drag formula can be written as:

Drag = 1/2 * density * v^2 * BC (where BC is the ballistic coefficient).

The problem with this method is that drag rises sharply as rounds fly supersonic, then returns to a (higher) velocity squared curve at higher supersonic airspeeds.  The G1 model uses the following formula:

Drag = p/p0 * G1(v)/BC * v

(where p = air density at current altitude, p0 = sea level density, G1 is a speed-dependant constant that models the variations in drag due to mach number, and v is the speed of the round at that instant)


Btw, I don't think I said that CRS head-coder RickB is a die-hard Mac-fan, that wont touch a Windos machine with a six-foot pool. Hence, WWIIOL's code is a written on a Mac which I think is rather keen (and not very common in the gaming industry, I've to assume?).

And now has the CEO at CRS stated that he is planning to by himself an Intel iMac. :D