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#41 Huntn

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Posted 05 October 2006 - 02:59 PM

Since I've changed my character to a mystic elf, I'm very pleased with the game. Elder Scrolls 4: Oblivion has no real competition in the RPG genre. That may change soon with NWN2 and Gothic 3 around the corner. But for now, Oblivion's immersion factor can't be beat.

There is much discussion regarding Oblivion's leveling system in the Elder Scrolls forums. I'm undecided. There are several mods out there, at least one discussed in this thread, that alter the game's leveling. But although I don't like mobs who level with me because it makes most fights very similar, it does give me freedom to explore where ever I wish. The problem with mods that changes the leveling system is that when entering a fight, you don't know what your getting yourself into. There is no indicator that shows the health of a mob so you just keep wacking until they fall over or watch your health plumit while trying to run away. I've decided to keep playing with the basic leveling scheme and maybe later trying one of these mods.

I'm also finding that with multiple opponents I end up running away a lot. I need to work on some techniques to handle these situations for example I need poison on my blades, shield potion, etc.

#42 Huntn

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Posted 14 October 2006 - 10:24 AM

I am surprised that Bethesda is selling plugins to Oblivion. First time I've noticed a developer selling these kind of add-ons. Is this a precedent?

http://obliviondownl...SubCategoryId=1

#43 StopDropBurn

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Posted 14 October 2006 - 10:31 AM

My main gripe with Oblivion is that all "fire" spells look the same, and all "lightning" spells look the same, no matter how powerful they are, it kinda' bugs me.
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#44 Huntn

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Posted 14 October 2006 - 12:44 PM

View PostAskilfeasd, on October 14th 2006, 11:31 AM, said:

My main gripe with Oblivion is that all "fire" spells look the same, and all "lightning" spells look the same, no matter how powerful they are, it kinda' bugs me.

Well, me too. I like impressive magicka.

#45 Atticus

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Posted 10 November 2006 - 10:21 AM

I'm about six or so hours into the game, and I'm kinda regretting my impulse purchase.  :(

Looks like a case where all the reviewers seem to have collectively drank the Bethesda Softworks Kool-Aid. Immersion? Not for this guy. I find the NPCs to be about as life-like as mannaquins. The world is so sparsely populated and devoid of environmental effects (you know, even a single bird flying overhead would've helped) that it seems wholly empty of life (except for the swaying leaves!). I know I'm not an RPG guy, but if role-playing involves clicking through thousands of lines of inane NPC text, well, guess RPGs aren't for me. It's pure, unadulterated, hellish tedium.

The "Persuasion" mini-game? Don't even get me started. I don't understand how it can possibly increase an NPC's disposition (click on the large pie and...she hates you!), and the manual is of no help.

My kingdom for a drag-and-drop interface!!! Nothing like scrolling....and scrolling....and scrolling....and scrolling. To hell, you console ports!

And if the rest of the quests are like "Canvas the Castle," I'll kill myself with a rusty lock-pick. Oh, wait, I can't, it just broke.

In fact, this game might be just the antitode I need to start playing WoW again. :-)

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#46 Huntn

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Posted 10 November 2006 - 10:52 AM

View PostAtticus, on November 10th 2006, 10:21 AM, said:

I'm about six or so hours into the game, and I'm kinda regretting my impulse purchase.  :(

Looks like a case where all the reviewers seem to have collectively drank the Bethesda Softworks Kool-Aid. Immersion? Not for this guy. I find the NPCs to be about as life-like as mannaquins. The world is so sparsely populated and devoid of environmental effects (you know, even a single bird flying overhead would've helped) that it seems wholly empty of life (except for the swaying leaves!). I know I'm not an RPG guy, but if role-playing involves clicking through thousands of lines of inane NPC text, well, guess RPGs aren't for me. It's pure, unadulterated, hellish tedium.

The "Persuasion" mini-game? Don't even get me started. I don't understand how it can possibly increase an NPC's disposition (click on the large pie and...she hates you!), and the manual is of no help.

My kingdom for a drag-and-drop interface!!! Nothing like scrolling....and scrolling....and scrolling....and scrolling. To hell, you console ports!

And if the rest of the quests are like "Canvas the Castle," I'll kill myself with a rusty lock-pick. Oh, wait, I can't, it just broke.

In fact, this game might be just the antitode I need to start playing WoW again. :-)

Atticus

Sorry to hear that. My thoughts-

Immersion- I would not describe myself as a kool aid drinker, but when I compare this to other games I've played, it is top rung for "my kind" of immersion. But I don't expect my immersion to be yours. Haven't you seen the butterflies, the rain storms, and heard the frogs and crickets chirping? I'm very attracted to close up 3rd person view as displayed by Oblivion and WoW. And by my previous posts, isometric god's eye view is a hinderance to immersion, but that is just me. I want to be on the ground face to face with adversaries, not looking down from the clouds. :)

Regarding NPCs, I'm the first to admit that they are very limited in what you can get out of them, but is there another RPG populated with better NPCs and their routines?

Persuasion mini-game- are you referring to when you persuade a NPC by bribing or complementing them? It's not really a mini-game if I understand what you are saying. And it's not all of that great a feature. It's just that when you talk to an NPC looking for info, their disposition can control how much info you get. You use "persuade" and the choices that are available to raise their disposition. Bribing costs money and it does not guarantee that you'll get any more info but some of the quests require that the disposition of an NPC be high enough that they will even agree to discuss a subject. One way to play it is to quick save the game prior to a discussion, and see what you get with and without the persuasion.

Bottom line is that the attraction to this game as with any game is a personal preference. Thank goodness we all don't like the exact same thing. :)

If you think the game has any redeeming qualities, my suggestion would be to consider some strategic cheats to get rid of the real annoyances and to look at some of the walkthroughs. For example you can add lock picks to your inventory using a consol command. UESP.net/wiki has excellent info. Here is an example of the Bravil Mage Recommendation quest. I've got a bunch of links posted in the Oblivion FAQ.

#47 StopDropBurn

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Posted 12 November 2006 - 09:45 PM

To be honest, I kinda' agree with what Atticus and Tetsuya have said about Oblivion, while I do consider it fun, it's been way overhyped, I'd give it about a 7.5/10, maybe I'm jaded after playing a bunch of PS2 RPGs, and while I do my best to not compare it to any of them, "Playing a funny, little, possesed girl in Phantom Brave is more immersive than this" kept going through my head, the game felt dead, even being in the Imperial City surrounded by citizens felt empty, they just wandered around pointlessly, randomly making comments to whoever is closest.
I'll agree with you about the camera though, the thing that attracted me to Morrowind was the first person camera, and the combat just felt right at home in the first person camera in Oblivion.
And as to the combat, while it's fun for awhile, the melee combat can get repetetive, "hack, hack, block, hack, hack, block" or "block, power attack, block, power attack" got old after the 50th goblin, and the magic isn't very fun either, all the fire spells look the same, all the lightning spells look the same, all the frost spells look the same, etc.
Also, as I've said before, the game doesn't seem open-ended, while I'll be the first to say that making a truly open-ended game has gotta' be hard, EV Nova or any of the prequels felt infinitely more free than Oblivion.

Now I'm not saying that Oblivion doesn't have its strengths, I enjoyed the game a lot, and I would recommend it to anyone looking for a fun ORPG, I just find it easier to dwell on the game's weaknesses.
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#48 Tomatocow

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Posted 13 November 2006 - 03:54 AM

Everything gets really funny when NPC's start fighting amongst themselves and the whole town gets involved for some reason. I've seen it twice and I cracked up both times. :D

#49 AussieMacGamer

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Posted 13 November 2006 - 05:44 AM

id have to say the funniest thing is when your talking to one NPC and another come's and walks directly infront of the other bloke then stops...and stands for a while.

or the fact that in the first build (i dont know weather they fixed this or not) whenever you enter into a convo with an NPS most things around you freeze. a guy once talked to me about being chased and attacked...i could see what he meant because right behind him was his attacker already swinging ready to kill. the blade was literally inches from the NPS's head :happy: ha owned is what i said

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#50 Huntn

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Posted 13 November 2006 - 09:11 AM

View PostAskilfeasd, on November 12th 2006, 09:45 PM, said:

And as to the combat, while it's fun for awhile, the melee combat can get repetetive, "hack, hack, block, hack, hack, block" or "block, power attack, block, power attack" got old after the 50th goblin, and the magic isn't very fun either, all the fire spells look the same, all the lightning spells look the same, all the frost spells look the same, etc.

Regarding combat, I've noticed in RPGs, the category of stand-there-and-select attacks/spells to launch such as in NWN and WoW. This is the first RPG I've played that your combat movements are important including dodging spells. I do like moving to avoid hits and trying to time my attacks. So while it's not perfect and it can become repetitive, (for my knowledge) is there another RPG that does combat better? In WoW the trick was to know your spell book inside and out and how to mix attacks with healing (spell 1, spell 2, heal, spell 3, repeat). I'd call that a different kind of combat than what Oblivion offers, not better or worse, just different and just as repetitive imo. I tend to get into a repetitive attack routine for whatever character I'm playing. Most noticeable was when I was a WoW junky and rotated through 6 characters of differerent classes. I really did enjoy the variety in combat styles.

I totally agree that the spells are a disappointment for example, in that all fire spells look identical. You really want magic coming out of your finger tips! :)

#51 Huntn

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Posted 17 December 2006 - 07:54 AM

After playing a lot of Oblivion, my major critique of the game is too many gates to close, too much all-most identical content based on those gates, and they can totally be ignored with no adverse consequences to the world. (Gates are portals to another plain that allow bad creatures to invade the province of Cyrodiil.)

#52 StopDropBurn

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Posted 17 December 2006 - 01:06 PM

Quote

is there another RPG that does combat better?

In terms of computer RPGs? (in my opinion obviously) I think that NWN has more engaging combat, sneaking into houses and murdering people is more fun than in Oblivion, though I'll admit that grinding is more fun in Oblivion, though the bosses are more fun in NWN.
In terms of console RPGs? Hell yes, there are many more, but I doubt you were talking about that.
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#53 Huntn

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Posted 17 December 2006 - 05:30 PM

View PostAskilfeasd, on December 17th 2006, 01:06 PM, said:

In terms of computer RPGs? (in my opinion obviously) I think that NWN has more engaging combat, sneaking into houses and murdering people is more fun than in Oblivion, though I'll admit that grinding is more fun in Oblivion, though the bosses are more fun in NWN.
In terms of console RPGs? Hell yes, there are many more, but I doubt you were talking about that.

Regarding consol RPGs I agree there are many more games, but the question is do they do combat better than say Oblivion? NWN combat does not really impress me at all.

Sometimes I wonder if there is a whole gaming world out there I'm missing out on. Gears of War and Resistance: Fall of Man both look like interesting titles. But sitting in front of the tv with a consol controller really turns me off. Did you know consol titles despite selling millions of them go for $59? That seems very high to me especially considering the volume.

#54 StopDropBurn

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Posted 17 December 2006 - 10:11 PM

Oh yes, I've seen many console RPGs do better combat than Oblivion, I haven't been refering to them because I thought this was more of a computer RPG comparison, but to be honest, the computer side of RPGs is very limited, I can't believe that you don't have a console since it seems you like RPGs so much.

Quote

Sometimes I wonder if there is a whole gaming world out there I'm missing out on. Gears of War and Resistance: Fall of Man both look like interesting titles. But sitting in front of the tv with a consol controller really turns me off. Did you know consol titles despite selling millions of them go for $59? That seems very high to me especially considering the volume.

Uhh, they only sell for $59 dollars when it's a "next gen" console game, generally the max price is $50 for a brand new game, generally you can get a decent console RPG for $15-30.
And as for volume? I could name an RPG or two that have more content than all the Elder Scrolls and NWN games combined.
In the end, it all comes down to preference, as of now, I generally play strategy games on my Mac, and do most of my other gaming on consoles, though a few years back, I wouldn't believe someone if they told me that I would spend more time gaming on a console.
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#55 Huntn

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 09:17 AM

View PostAskilfeasd, on December 17th 2006, 10:11 PM, said:

Oh yes, I've seen many console RPGs do better combat than Oblivion, I haven't been refering to them because I thought this was more of a computer RPG comparison, but to be honest, the computer side of RPGs is very limited, I can't believe that you don't have a console since it seems you like RPGs so much.
Uhh, they only sell for $59 dollars when it's a "next gen" console game, generally the max price is $50 for a brand new game, generally you can get a decent console RPG for $15-30.
And as for volume? I could name an RPG or two that have more content than all the Elder Scrolls and NWN games combined.
In the end, it all comes down to preference, as of now, I generally play strategy games on my Mac, and do most of my other gaming on consoles, though a few years back, I wouldn't believe someone if they told me that I would spend more time gaming on a console.

I know you've been following the Gothic and Oblivion chat, so what would you say are the best consol RPGs (best = non linear, non static, dynamic world where things change, dynamic combat, dynamic quests) and on what platform? It will give me something to investigate. Thanks!:)

#56 StopDropBurn

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 04:24 PM

For one, Jade Empire is good, it's for the Xbox, it's not really open-ended, but every time you go through the game it's going to be different, because of multiple paths, different of combat, and a dynamic leveling up and combat system, with interesting mini-games, I recommend it, it's also made by Bioware.

I'll edit this post with more suggestions later.

EDIT:

Valkyrie Profile 2
Platform: PS2
An interesting game, side-scrolling movement in towns and dungeons, but when you enter combat, it's 3D, it's hard to explain, but the combat feels very satisfying, because being smarter than the enemy, and outflanking them does help, along with locational damage, and the ability to destroy enemy body parts.(such as their legs so they can't move) And the graphics are some of the best I've ever seen in a PS2 game.
However, if you are looking for an open-ended game, I would advise to stay away from this one, while you can go back to the dungeons you have explored, and finish them in different ways, and unlock new areas, it still feels very linear, and the plot isn't very engaging, that along with very steep leveling requirements and basically no side-quests make this one for PS2 RPG veterans only.

Final Fantasy XII
Platform: PS2
While I haven't own this one myself, I've played it, and it feels a lot like World of Warcraft, in fact they could have called it World of Final Fantasy and it'd be closer to the truth.
Anyway, beautiful graphics, and the Gambit system is pure genius, it makes the level grinding in the game much more stream-lined, and if you turn the game speed all the way to fastest, it seems like it's real-time, a must-buy, and if I wasn't already busy with Valkyrie Profile 2, I would have myself.

Rogue Galaxy
Platform: PS2
While this one isn't out yet, it's certainly one I'm looking forward to, no loading times, with good graphics to boot, however, I don't know enough about it yet to suggest it or not.

Xenosaga series
Platform: PS2
An immensely long game series, many people have described it as "space opera", another RPG I haven't played myself, but definetly worth looking into to.

Shadow Hearts: Covenant
Platform: PS2
If you can ignore the targeted-at-people-like-Ichigo boxart, it makes for a fun game, though the visuals don't fit the game at all, the "Judgement Ring" makes every random encounter fun, and you earn awards for how well you perform in combat, you should check it out, however, little to no freedom to explore bogs down the game.

Phantom Brave
Platform: PS2
Avoid this game at all costs, not because it's bad, because it'll be the most depressing game you'll play.





Heh, it's hard not to suggest a bunch of RPGs, but a good deal of those that spring to mind are just too complicated for someone who hasn't played a lot of the same type of RPG a lot(no offense),  I'll post some more on the conventional Xbox side of things tommorrer.
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#57 Huntn

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Posted 19 December 2006 - 07:44 AM

View PostAskilfeasd, on December 18th 2006, 04:24 PM, said:

Heh, it's hard not to suggest a bunch of RPGs, but a good deal of those that spring to mind are just too complicated for someone who hasn't played a lot of the same type of RPG a lot(no offense), I'll post some more on the conventional Xbox side of things tommorrer.

Thanks bro!

Final Fantasy XII on PS2- I wonder how good it looks? If the graphics are not up to par, I probably won't like it no matter how good the game play is. Which makes we wonder if there are any really outstanding RPGs that have been released for the 360 or PS3?

Edit: Holy Smoke- Final Fantasy XII looks awesome!

#58 StopDropBurn

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Posted 19 December 2006 - 09:33 AM

Oh hell yes, FFXII looks good, you shouldn't worry about that, the plot is very different from other FF games, it's more about political stuff, and "save our country" as opposed to "save the world".

As for 360 and PS3 RPGs, for the 360, "Enchanted Arms" is out(I would stay away from it) and "Blue Dragon" is coming out in January, though it looks a little... odd, and basically is just a standard, though pretty RPG, however, Lost Odyssey is coming out for the 360 sometime, and that seems to be a must buy.

As to the PS3, right now? Nothin', which basically sums up the PS3 right there, it's going to be sometime October-November '07 when some decent games start coming out for the PS3.
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#59 Huntn

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Posted 19 December 2006 - 04:13 PM

Well, I'm sad to report I borrowed a PS2 along with FFXII and I was disapointed. Dispite the fact that it's a blockbuster franchise, and the graphics & cinematics blew me a way, and the story was good, the game play was blah, VERY lineal, highly scripted, long cut scenes at every corner, and the quests & combat was nothing to write home about- very basic. In some ways it seems more like an adventure game than a RPG.  I'll keep checking out consol titles (I realize Oblivion is also a consol title). So far Oblivion has the best combat I have seen in a RPG, although I don't expect anyone has to agree with me. :)

#60 StopDropBurn

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Posted 19 December 2006 - 04:20 PM

Heh, while FF games might not be your cup of tea, and I'm not sure how far you got in it, but one thing to remember with many console RPGs is that they start off very slowly, I mean VERY slowly, infact, it's my policy to not think at all about whether I like an RPG or not 'till I'm about a third in, most console RPGs out there don't start you off fast-paced, for example, Star Ocean: Till the End of Time, the first 15 hours of the game are so boring, and so dry, that I thought about selling it, but then it picks up pace, and gets very fun, same thing with SH:C, FFX, Valkyrie Profile, and many others, and relating to that same topic, for a good deal of the beginning of the game, they are going to want to immerse you more in the world, and give you a lot of cutscenes, it'll die down after awhile, and leave you to your own vices.
By the way, look at Shadow of the Colossus, it's not an RPG, but it's definetly a must-play for anyone who has a PS2.

And as for combat? As I think I've remarked before, a lot of the RPGs with best combat are complicated, not at all user-friendly, and would completely overwhelm someone used to computer RPGs, also, a lot of console titles are "split up" in terms of what they do, so a certain title might have amazing, in-depth combat(you aren't going to find that in a RPG though), but be terrible in other respects, while a game might be very open-ended, but be terrible in other respects.

Also, I'm not exactly sure of what type of RPG you're looking for, do you loathe turn-based combat, and looking for something like Zelda? Are you looking for something really combat-oriented? Or maybe something with more emphasis on plot? I understand that you want them all together, but whats the main deciding factor in you liking a game?
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.