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Apple Releases Boot Camp


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#41 Maestro

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 01:53 PM

View PostRiko, on April 5th 2006, 01:21 PM, said:

And here's another black cloud which I 'borowed' from MacWorld:

"I don't think you can underestimate the danger of this. The script kiddies and hackers that all love to hate apple will see this as a challenge.
No ifs or anything, just plain virii and trojans that attack every windows machine out there, but only effect hfs mac volumes. They'll want to turn the tables on us, a virus that does nothing on a regular windows machine, but destroys the mac volume of an Intel Mac running windows.
I'm sure there are all sorts of tricks to prevent this, I'm even more sure that if enough people try, one will succeed..."

I really think I keep my PC and Mac seperated from eachother. No matter how much I longer to play F.E.A.R. or HL2.

... shudder.....

That's got to be the dumbest thing i've ever heard.

I'm more worried about the government controlling the ISPs and installing spy software on my machine, with out me knowing!

::Shudder::

I never liked Mac World
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#42 steiner designer

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 02:00 PM

View Posteschatz, on April 5th 2006, 12:44 PM, said:

I am interested in more replies/opinions of porting houses (i.e. Brad Oliver, Glenda Adams, etc.) and what they feel this will do to their business.

here you go:

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#43 paulc

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 02:19 PM

Actually, I think this is the first really BOLD thing they have done in 30 years.

Think about it; dual boot machines, running X and 'blowz. The hardware is gong to HAVE to "live up to" wintel standards to a reasonable  degree... i.e. it can NOT carry such a huge premium (for top end machines, give me a break, none of you iMacIntel folks are going to be running Doom 3 engine games at particularly fast speeds). The issue is going to be "how much of a premium to buy a top class machine that can run X."

As for gaming, it's the death of mac gaming depending on exactly  how you define "mac gaming (and I notice nobody is even breathing what it means)." It clearly will be the end of "converting" those 10 million dollar AAA list titles to run under X. Those kinds of games typically demand top flight, non iMac machines anyway. Aspyr and those ilk will suffer a tad, but they've obviously been preparing for it for a while (when did they start dealing with console titles???). Despite the fact we didn't hear it from the horses mouth, they knew this was coming for quite a while now.

To outfits like Pangea and Ambrosia, dual booting is a non-issue. Produce good games that run under X only  and they'll get the same amount of revenue they do now-a-days (well, that is my opinion).

Now, there are some significant downsides... websites that are so 'blowz oriented have even less reason to do more standards based work. AND one of the biggest guns in macdom, Adobe... I REALLY wonder what those guys are thinking about. N ow there is an even better case to be made for single versioning their apps. THAT scares the popsnizzle out of me!

#44 Smoke_Tetsu

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 02:37 PM

That's still assuming that every single person who might want to run a game on a mac will want to also install windows. It doesn't automatically mean no AAA titles for OS X anymore after all you do still see some of those AAA titles being released for Linux and that has always been able to relatively easily be dual booted with Windows. Maybe it might mean less games for mac but who knows there are already not quite as  many games released for Mac compared to windows as it is.

I actually don't think requiring windows on a mac for games is a good or bad thing for mac in general as I doubt that EVERYONE will want to plunk down the money for a copy of windows and set it all up themselves after having bought a mac. I'm sure there will always be a demand for AAA titles on the Mac.

Although for hardcore mac gamers it is a boon to be able to play those games that just aren't available for the mac and won't ever be ported.
--Tetsuo

Alex Delarg, A Clockwork Orange said:

It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen.

the Battle Cat said:

Slower and faster? I'm sorry to hear such good news?

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#45 Endymion

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 04:01 PM

Not going to bother reading through the trove of responses already but something people are not seemingly aware of here is that this is another step closer to a virtualisation of Windows, inside of their beloved MOSX. The old Connectix way with an image? Gone. It should work much faster, much nicer, and because Apple is providing it, likely much more polished than other solutions that the hacksters would have cobbled together eventually. That's right I am saying you'll surely be able to run Windows in the same way that you run Classic now. Maybe you guys deleted Classic from your drives years ago, but I like playing Unreal every so often and you know what? I love hearing the music when I do.

This won't be any more of a "problem" than Classic was. It'll be there for you if you need it, and you don't have to bother with it if you don't. It'll also have enough quirks that for whatever reason it may not be a universal solution for everybody. No need to sell the farm if it doesn't suit you, just don't go to that pasture if you don't like the smell.

#46 Eric5h5

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 04:38 PM

View PostBrad Oliver, on April 5th 2006, 03:16 PM, said:

And there's the difference - it's here now.

Good point...I guess this thread would basically have occured when the 3D drivers were working, then.  

--Eric

#47 Brad Oliver

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 04:40 PM

View PostEndymion, on April 5th 2006, 03:01 PM, said:

This won't be any more of a "problem" than Classic was. It'll be there for you if you need it, and you don't have to bother with it if you don't.

Not really. Classic passed on calls to the native OS to pick up some speed and make things easier. This allowed for 3D OpenGL stuff to work pretty good. A virtual XP solution would not have that luxury.
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#48 hambone

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 06:06 PM

View PostBrad Oliver, on April 5th 2006, 02:05 PM, said:

As far as Mac gaming goes, right now the people who are dual-booting are already Mac owners, so that huge sucking sound (to quote Ross Perot) is the flood of existing Mac gamers rushing to dual-boot to play games. To compensate for that, it'll be a while (in my estimation) before enough PC switchers buy Macs (and Mac games) to make up for those lost sales.

well brad, you probably have access to sales figures that i don't, but in my thinking this wouldn't quite as dramatic in the short term (and hopefully made up in the long term). the way i reckon, the "hardcore" gaming aficionado who is the guy willing to acquire and install windows and do the dual-boot dance might not account for as many sales as one would think. furthermore, the majority of the installed gaming base will still be G5s for at least the next six months if not longer. admittedly that is hardly time to see a groundswell of increased Mac marketshare, but it certainly should help to mitigate that sucking sound you hear.

#49 Smoke_Tetsu

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 06:08 PM

View Posthambone, on April 5th 2006, 06:06 PM, said:

well brad, you probably have access to sales figures that i don't, but in my thinking this wouldn't quite as dramatic in the short term (and hopefully made up in the long term). the way i reckon, the "hardcore" gaming aficionado who is the guy willing to acquire and install windows and do the dual-boot dance might not account for as many sales as one would think. furthermore, the majority of the installed gaming base will still be G5s for at least the next six months if not longer. admittedly that is hardly time to see a groundswell of increased Mac marketshare, but it certainly should help to mitigate that sucking sound you hear.

That's some of my point exactly!
--Tetsuo

Alex Delarg, A Clockwork Orange said:

It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen.

the Battle Cat said:

Slower and faster? I'm sorry to hear such good news?

Late 2012 27 inch iMac, Core i7 Quad 3.4GHz, 16GB RAM, Nvidia GeForce GTX 680MX 2GB, 3TB HDD - Mavericks

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#50 kingarthur_kom

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 06:54 PM

View Posthambone, on April 5th 2006, 07:06 PM, said:

well brad, you probably have access to sales figures that i don't, but in my thinking this wouldn't quite as dramatic in the short term (and hopefully made up in the long term). the way i reckon, the "hardcore" gaming aficionado who is the guy willing to acquire and install windows and do the dual-boot dance might not account for as many sales as one would think. furthermore, the majority of the installed gaming base will still be G5s for at least the next six months if not longer. admittedly that is hardly time to see a groundswell of increased Mac marketshare, but it certainly should help to mitigate that sucking sound you hear.

At least delay the sucking sound.
Sure I would love to have Mac native games! However the delay, networking, & other reasons Brad stated are exactly why I also have a PC. Another factor is I have many PC friends which I like to play with too.
Then there is the price factor which is somewhat related to the delay of licensing, etc. By the time the Mac port is done the Windows publishers already made enough profit so that their game's price gets lowered. While I would love to support Mac publishers & have done so in the past, I also need to support my own meager budget.
I predict Windows will become more of a game only OS. Let's face it when you run a game you don't have to see the Windows GUI. It gets hidden in the background. What could also happen is people will become fed up with Windows instability & demand a Mac port. I hope that is the case.

#51 Brad Oliver

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 07:16 PM

View PostSmoke_Tetsu, on April 5th 2006, 05:08 PM, said:

That's some of my point exactly!

Didn't you also say that you'd be dual-booting into Windows yourself? ;)
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#52 Smoke_Tetsu

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 07:20 PM

View PostBrad Oliver, on April 5th 2006, 07:16 PM, said:

Didn't you also say that you'd be dual-booting into Windows yourself? ;)

That's if and that's a big IF I get an intel mac and decide to do that which I haven't yet. I might get a seperate new PC to play PC games. But either way even if I do install XP on a hypothetical future intel Mac I'd want native mac games if at all possible. But either way I'm a hardcore user and represent a small percentage of users because I use Mac, Windows, and Linux sometimes. In general though I'd really prefer that I didn't have to dual boot I'd rather have native OS X games, period. So what's your point? I'd only do it if I have to and to play the games not available for OS X I'd still support companies like Aspyr. Of course though to be perfectly honest with you I wouldn't want to play a half assed port. ;) I'll take a good port anyday.
--Tetsuo

Alex Delarg, A Clockwork Orange said:

It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen.

the Battle Cat said:

Slower and faster? I'm sorry to hear such good news?

Late 2012 27 inch iMac, Core i7 Quad 3.4GHz, 16GB RAM, Nvidia GeForce GTX 680MX 2GB, 3TB HDD - Mavericks

Late 2009 27 inch iMac, Core i5 2.6GHz, 12GB RAM, ATI Radeon 4850HD 512MB, 1TB HDD - Mavericks

Mac Mini, PowerPC G4 1.4Ghz, 1GB RAM, Radeon 9200 32MB, 256GB HDD - Leopard

Dell Inspiron 1200 Notebook: 1.2GHz Celeron, 1.2GB RAM, Intel GMA915, 75GB HDD - Ubuntu

Generic Black Tower PC, Dual Core 64-bit 2.4GHz, 4GB RAM, GeForce 9600 GT 512MB - Windows 7


#53 DaveyJJ

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 08:37 PM

View PostSmoke_Tetsu, on April 5th 2006, 09:20 PM, said:

I'll take a good port anyday.

And Brad, Glenda, Peter and the others haven't lost me as a Mac (ported) game buyer either. This is the solution I've been waiting for for only three reasons:

1. To the run one or two Windows only apps I need in my business (Autodesk Studio Max 8 esp.) that will never have a Mac port.

2. Connect to my strictly Windows-only corporate network to do my time sheets, access files etc from home as required.

3. To play games that never made it to Mac and those that never will or will take an inordinately long amount of time between PC release and Mac announcement.

We can all name some of the titles I refer to in point 3, but that list is dependent on the personal taste of the dual-booting Intel Mac owner. Flight sims, sports games, strategy games, Havok-using games, whatever.

What I'm waiting to see is not how this affects Aspyr and their brilliant ilk (because it will in some way or another), but how it affects the timing of how Mac porting houses go about announcing their upcoming ports. We'll see in the coming months.

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#54 Brad Oliver

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 08:42 PM

View PostDaveyJJ, on April 5th 2006, 07:37 PM, said:

What I'm waiting to see is not how this affects Aspyr and their brilliant ilk (because it will in some way or another), but how it affects the timing of how Mac porting houses go about announcing their upcoming ports. We'll see in the coming months.

We announce our titles when we are finally able to from a legal standpoint. We don't hold back because we're cruel and want to lose preorders. ;) I do believe that MacSoft does like to announce titles when they're right on the verge of shipping though, so perhaps this could have some impact on them.
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#55 Turtle

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 09:09 PM

So has anyone tested Half Life 2, Far Cry, Guild Wars, Oblivion or Black yet? :)

Would also like to see how GTA runs. OOH, this also means I can play UT99 again :D

#56 Eric5h5

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 09:12 PM

View PostBrad Oliver, on April 5th 2006, 10:42 PM, said:

We don't hold back because we're cruel and want to lose preorders. ;)

WHAT the... OK, I suppose you're also going to claim that you don't knock over little old ladies and steal candy from babies?  Don't you have a reputation to maintain?  Next thing we know, you'll be saying that the reason for the lack of Mac/PC networking ISN'T because you're bad, lazy coders who just want to torment Mac gamers....

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#57 PMAvers162

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 09:43 PM

View PostRiko, on April 5th 2006, 07:01 PM, said:

You mean MacPlay with AvP II as THE worst port ever?

Simon the Sorcerer II begs to differ.

Holy *crap*, that was bad.

#58 Lectrick

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 12:29 AM

I am a long-time, dyed-in-the-wool, still-refusing-to-purchase-a-Windoze-machine-just-for-games Mac gamer. For YEARS now I have suffered, ever since Myst (the last smash-hit Mac-only game) got ported to Windows. I've watched Half-Life just evade my Mac grasp. I've seen friends rave about Battlefield 1942 (FINALLY got ported!! Still play Desert Combat mod! Rocks!!), FarCry, Rome:TotalWar, HalfLife2, etc. etc. etc. In pain.

I love OS X. I love the game ports. But as a consumer, I just want to play some more goddamn games already.

Apple is giving the consumer what they want. This is often a brave move, but rarely does it fail.

I am excited by this. (And today is my birthday. Whatta gift.) As is every other on-the-fence-but-sticking-with-windoze-for-now friend I know.

This will grow the Mac hardware market: for sure.

This will expose more people to OS X: for sure.

Most of those people will realize they prefer OS X: for sure.

Most of those people will realize they do not want to reboot just to play a game: for sure.

Add in: Apple is heavily courting the creative class (designers/musicians/coders). I work with open source (read: smart creative geeks who love what they do) and the apple fandom is deafening. This is going to pay off big in a year or two.

Do the math.

#59 Space_Pirate_Killer

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 01:55 AM

The thing that interests me the most is that this a Beta of software that is going to be in Leopard. What will that be capable of? :o

This won't kill Mac Gaming, but Leopard might.
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#60 Turtle

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 04:58 AM

View PostSpace_Pirate_Killer, on April 6th 2006, 12:55 AM, said:

The thing that interests me the most is that this a Beta of software that is going to be in Leopard. What will that be capable of? :o

This won't kill Mac Gaming, but Leopard might.


Kinda like the movie old yeller. It may be a sad thing to do, but steve needs to take the dog out back and put the damn thing out of its misery. Course this sort of analogy only works if you, like me, believe there are no decent mac games (save for the old bungie games and anything made by blizzard). And yes, I despise Sim/tycoon games.