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Bootcamp: The Death of Mac Games?


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#21 Auron

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 10:16 AM

View PostXxtraLarGe, on April 5th 2006, 10:06 AM, said:

Well, Apple has finally done it. They have released Bootcamp. Now you can "officially" boot into Windows on Mac OS X, including all drivers. What is the incentive to create native Mac games?

How many average computer users do you know who could even install windows nevermind fool around with something like BootCamp?

#22 tthiel

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 10:19 AM

Feel free to do so...

View PostGlendaAdams, on April 5th 2006, 09:05 AM, said:

Thanks for the support. I'll go ahead and kill the Sims 2/Nightlife/Universal UB patches :)


Mac gamers are not average computer users.  They are a minority within a minority.

View PostAuron, on April 5th 2006, 09:16 AM, said:

How many average computer users do you know who could even install windows nevermind fool around with something like BootCamp?


#23 Haoshiro

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 10:20 AM

View PostAuron, on April 5th 2006, 11:16 AM, said:

How many average computer users do you know who could even install windows nevermind fool around with something like BootCamp?

How many dedicated gamers are average computer users?  Honestly most gamers I know are very familiar with Windows, installation, tweaking, etc...  they now just lost their reason to NOT get a mac... the only thing left is price.

#24 DaveyJJ

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 10:26 AM

View PostGlendaAdams, on April 5th 2006, 12:05 PM, said:

Thanks for the support. I'll go ahead and kill the Sims 2/Nightlife/Universal UB patches :)

That is one of the funniest postings I've seen all day over this hysteria. Thanks, Glenda. :)

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#25 stevep63

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 11:12 AM

I'm a die hard Mac user, who was dying to play the latest and greatest PC games that were not coming to the Mac due to middleware, such as Half Life 2 and Battlefield 2. I have a friend who is an expert at building PCs so he built my AMD machine for free. Here's the result:

1- PCs are NOT as cheap as everyone makes them out to be. Mine was well over $1900.00, and it's not as powerful, good-looking and reliable as today's Intel iMac. Plus, that $1900.00 cost doesn't include a monitor.

2- People, for those who don't use Windoze, it sucks. Seriously. I can't even count how many times a game that crashes has crashed THE WHOLE COMPUTER! This is NOT OSX folks, where crashing an app means all you have to do is restart the app. That sometimes works in Windoze, but usually it doesn't

3- I do NOTHING but play game on my PC. I don't even get email on my PC. I use my dual G5 for everything else, including playing Mac games (Roller Coaster Tycoon 3 is AWESOME, btw. Thanks Aspyr!). I had my PC for grand totoal of two weeks just playing games, when I got hit with over 400 spyware apps. I kid you not. And that was with Windoze' built-in firewall running.
See, from gaming on a PC, I know very well why console gaming took off; gaming on Windoze is FAR from perfect. Sometimes it downright sucks.

Lastly, speaking of consoles, there's some rumors that the PS3 might support mice for gaming. If this was true, it could spell the end for ALL computer gaming, both Mac and Windoze.

Personally, I have and will always buy the Mac version of the same game, even if it means waiting a bit. I plan on buying COD 2 even though I could play it right now on my pee cee. At least on my Mac, I know it'll WORK correctly the first time out and will CONTINUE to work correctly.

Long live Mac gaming!

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#26 Brad Oliver

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 11:29 AM

View PostMacProject, on April 5th 2006, 09:00 AM, said:

Well, they have branched out a bit by publishing PC and console titles over the last year or so rather than focusing solely on Mac games.  Maybe they knew this was coming...

The first time I heard of it was this morning when I read IMG. ;-) My birthday is Saturday, so this is a sort of early birthday present.
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#27 johnwillo

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 12:06 PM

I prefer to buy Mac games.  I hope that the porting houses can find ways to release closer to PC dates.  I would even pay more for a "PC version now, Mac version when it ships" package.  But I guess that margins are too tight for something like this, unless it costs a full 200% of PC game price.  I'm worried that if true virtualization is part of Leopard, we may truly lose the big Mac game porters forever.

#28 WhiteSavage

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 12:08 PM

Well I aint clunkin down the cash it takes just so I can play some games on Windows. And I want to open my laptop lid and start playing, not boot back and forth for games and life. No, I'm sticking with what Aspyr, Feral, and Macsoft can give me. If I wanted to play games on Windows, I would buy one of those $300 laptops. I wouldn't corrupt my poor computer like that :)

P.S. I'm sure there's gonna b a lot of pirated versions of XP circulating these next few weeks.

#29 johnwillo

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 12:16 PM

View PostWhiteSavage, on April 5th 2006, 10:08 AM, said:

P.S. I'm sure there's gonna b a lot of pirated versions of XP circulating these next few weeks.

For those who want to stay legal, remember that places like Newegg will sell OEM versions of XP for a LOT less than a boxed version from CompUSA.  Just be careful not to buy an upgrade version.  I bought one a month ago to play with the Q emulator, so I'm good to go now!

#30 iRolley

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 12:27 PM

View PostWhiteSavage, on April 5th 2006, 12:08 PM, said:

Well I aint clunkin down the cash it takes just so I can play some games on Windows. And I want to open my laptop lid and start playing, not boot back and forth for games and life. No, I'm sticking with what Aspyr, Feral, and Macsoft can give me. If I wanted to play games on Windows, I would buy one of those $300 laptops. I wouldn't corrupt my poor computer like that :)

P.S. I'm sure there's gonna b a lot of pirated versions of XP circulating these next few weeks.

I second that.

And I think we are making too much of a deal out of this. Look, even Linux users, who would always dual boot Windows, got UT2004, Doom3, Enemy Territory...

This is really important to people who would buy a Mac but THE application they need is not supported on Mac. The important point will be selling more Macs, increasing the Mac market share and then selling more Mac Applications/Games.

I think Apple is betting that once a PC user buys a Mac, he will stick with MacOS and forget about Windows, just like we slowly forgot about OS9 once applications were ported to OSX or an equivalent application was released for OSX. It is a huge bet though. Very interesting.

#31 XxtraLarGe

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 12:37 PM

View PostiRolley, on April 5th 2006, 06:27 PM, said:

I second that.

And I think we are making too much of a deal out of this. Look, even Linux users, who would always dual boot Windows, got UT2004, Doom3, Enemy Territory...

This is really important to people who would buy a Mac but THE application they need is not supported on Mac. The important point will be selling more Macs, increasing the Mac market share and then selling more Mac Applications/Games.

I think Apple is betting that once a PC user buys a Mac, he will stick with MacOS and forget about Windows, just like we slowly forgot about OS9 once applications were ported to OSX or an equivalent application was released for OSX. It is a huge bet though. Very interesting.

I will still boot up into OS 9 to play some games that don't play well in Classic under OS X.

Linux is a great example of what to worry about. Many Linux users hate Windows even more than us Mac users. How many commercial games have been ported for Linux? Not anywhere near as many as for Mac OS X.

As far as your final point, I'm sure that's exactly what Apple is planning on. They are trying to expand their market share. But what they're not planning on is the current Mac owners who are like me and will want to play Oblivion, HL2, etc. Now I don't even have to buy a gaming PC as many others here have.

#32 tthiel

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 12:42 PM

$86.95 for XP Home OEM

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16837102059

View Postjohnwillo, on April 5th 2006, 11:16 AM, said:

For those who want to stay legal, remember that places like Newegg will sell OEM versions of XP for a LOT less than a boxed version from CompUSA.  Just be careful not to buy an upgrade version.  I bought one a month ago to play with the Q emulator, so I'm good to go now!


Great.....

View PostiRolley, on April 5th 2006, 11:27 AM, said:

Look, even Linux users, who would always dual boot Windows, got UT2004, Doom3, Enemy Territory...


#33 Batcat

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 12:49 PM

View PostWhiteSavage, on April 5th 2006, 01:08 PM, said:

P.S. I'm sure there's gonna b a lot of pirated versions of XP circulating these next few weeks.

Quote

What you’ll need

...
...
■ A bona fide installation disc for Microsoft Windows XP, Service Pack 2, Home or Professional (No multi-disc, upgrade or Media Center versions.)

Looks like steps've been taken against piracy, simpler perhaps with the EFI/BIOS issue. Don't pirate. If you do, you know better than to ask here for help.

#34 Auron

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 12:49 PM

View Posttthiel, on April 5th 2006, 12:19 PM, said:

Feel free to do so...
Mac gamers are not average computer users.  They are a minority within a minority.

You have no proof of that. The people on these forums aren't the majority of people who play Mac games. In fact, most of the people I know who play games on their Macs ARE average computer users.

#35 iRolley

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 12:57 PM

View PostXxtraLarGe, on April 5th 2006, 12:37 PM, said:

Linux is a great example of what to worry about. Many Linux users hate Windows even more than us Mac users. How many commercial games have been ported for Linux? Not anywhere near as many as for Mac OS X.

Would there be more Linux games if a Linux box could not dual boot windows? No. The fact is dual booting probably doesn't influence much, games still get ported independantely of that.

Between a Mac version or a PC version, I hope mac user will buy the Mac version (as I said previously, close release to the PC version will have a bigger impact now).

Quote

Now I don't even have to buy a gaming PC as many others here have.

Exactly. People who are going to dual boot are the type of people that would have (or already) bought a PC or a console at some point.

The real blow would be virtualization. If I could launch a PC game without quitting OSX and without any performance impact, THAT would be a hundred times more serious.

But anyway, if Apple significantely increases its market share, it might balance it out.

#36 Batcat

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 01:03 PM

View PostAuron, on April 5th 2006, 01:49 PM, said:

You have no proof of that. The people on these forums aren't the majority of people who play Mac games. In fact, most of the people I know who play games on their Macs ARE average computer users.
Mac gaming will go on, but I've a hunch that hard-core Mac gaming- CoD2, Quake 4- was just dealt a mortal blow. Enough hardcore gamers will dual-boot to drop ports of high-vis, hardware-intensive games below profitability, and the market will increasingly shift to the softer games that now sell, and still will... enough, tho, who want to play R:TW, most serious sims, Halo 2 etc. etc. down the line, will shift to make the difference.

Apple will benefit, but I feel for the devs and porters who were blindsided.

MS already plans to support virtualized Linux. MS seems to have foreseen this opening shot in OS Wars, Round Two and be working on their own:

Quote

Microsoft has announced that they will support customers that run Linux within Microsoft Virtual Server 2005 R2

...

Microsoft has also said that the upcoming server edition of Windows Vista will have virtualization built in to it. Specifically Microsoft said that it is developing hypervisor software, code-named Viridian, to host multiple operating systems on one machine.
http://www.dailytech...spx?newsid=1589

#37 steiner designer

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 01:05 PM

View PostiRolley, on April 5th 2006, 11:57 AM, said:

The real blow would be virtualization. If I could launch a PC game without quitting OSX and without any performance impact, THAT would be a hundred times more serious.

Now THAT would nice - and who know, in the next few months, it may just happen.

By "nice", I'm of course, referring from the consumers point of view. Not so nice for the companies that port PC games to OSX.
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#38 Auron

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 01:11 PM

View Poststeiner designer, on April 5th 2006, 03:05 PM, said:

Now THAT would nice - and who know, in the next few months, it may just happen.

By "nice", I'm of course, referring from the consumers point of view. Not so nice for the companies that port PC games to OSX.

I doubt such virtualization would have much in the line of 3D graphics support in the like unless it was easy to put in, remember Apple isn't aiming at gamers with any of this stuff.

#39 Haoshiro

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 01:19 PM

View PostAuron, on April 5th 2006, 01:49 PM, said:

You have no proof of that. The people on these forums aren't the majority of people who play Mac games. In fact, most of the people I know who play games on their Macs ARE average computer users.

Sure, but I think this will do more for PC gamers switching to mac then those Mac users who want to play PC games.

And PC gamers, all that I've known, are far above average in their technical know-how...  I mean, you almost have to be... what with reinstalling your OS all the time, etc... heh.

So maybe Mac gamers aren't, but maybe they'll still try Boot Camp if it means getting games Faster *and* Cheaper.

#40 iRolley

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 01:25 PM

View PostAuron, on April 5th 2006, 01:11 PM, said:

I doubt such virtualization would have much in the line of 3D graphics support in the like unless it was easy to put in, remember Apple isn't aiming at gamers with any of this stuff.

Unless it runs the full windows OS. I remember going back and forth from Gnome to OSX just using a keyboard shortcut on my Mac (no rebooting). Its very different to running windows but still, if it runs the full windows OS, it would have 3d capability.