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Apple Boot Camp


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#41 etehoy

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 10:59 AM

Any desire to purchase a PC or xbox 360 has just vanished. I look forward to seeing those mini towers.

Peter

#42 Deathlok2001

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 11:05 AM

View Postetehoy, on April 5th 2006, 10:59 AM, said:

Any desire to purchase a PC or xbox 360 has just vanished. I look forward to seeing those mini towers.

Peter

What mini towers?

The  intel Imacs with those x1600 ati chip 256 mb video cards?
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#43 Atticus

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 11:09 AM

Let me correct myself - Mac gaming in general *might* survive (maybe), but the market just lost every hardcore gamer it had. Half Life 2 ftw?

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#44 mad_muppett

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 11:14 AM

View Postgbafan, on April 5th 2006, 05:15 PM, said:

ZOMG! Screens?!?!?!?!?!  Srsly?  ;)


I've submitted a screen shot to the News section.. but will upload it online l8r this evening..

Promise you it works and works very well..

#45 Atticus

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 11:33 AM

Damn all of you already playing BF2 on your MacBooks! (shakes fist)

Gimme a Mactel tower.....NOW. ;-)

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View Postmad_muppett, on April 5th 2006, 05:14 PM, said:

I've submitted a screen shot to the News section.. but will upload it online l8r this evening..

Promise you it works and works very well..

"I'm standing in the middle of life with my pants behind me."

#46 guategeek

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 11:55 AM

This isn't the death of Mac gaming. This is the rebirth of Mac gaming. So you all consider yourself hardcore gamers that will boot into Windows to play games that are not on the mac, thats fine.

But Mac gaming isn't playing ported games, Its playing Original Mac Games. Now that you can boot into Windows the porting houses ought to stop porting and 1) make original games or 2) port consel titles to the Mac and Windows. The "big boys" as you call them were alread hurting, Macsoft has been going down hill, MacPlay is dead. But then look at aspire they are still going full tilt, they are releasing games on PC and they are doing some dual platform games. I think this is a trend that will continue.

Now turn to the Indy crowd, its growing, we have great tools like Unity. With the ability to boot into windows now someone can buy Unity get a cheaper 3D program and use PC software to animate or other tasks that you need expensive mac software to do. They can build for UB, PPC and Windows and test both the Mac and PC versions on the same hardware. Stop dissing Mac gaming, this is the begining not the end. Now go support your platform of choice by paying for Original Mac Games. Jeff
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#47 hambone

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 12:01 PM

if BootCamp were some seamless virtualization software that offered near 100% performance for emulated XP software, the Port Industry Doomsayers might be more belivable. but as for the stability of the port industry otherwise, there are three important points:

(1) the vast majority of actively used OSX machines will continue to be PPC for the next year
(2) if Apple sells more hardware because of BootCamp, it will inevitably grow OSX marketshare too, which could paradoxically increase the demand for OSX software ports
(3) the "hardcore" gamers who will install XP and dual-boot do not necessarily account for the bulk of port sales

if you add those three points up, it seems entirely possible that the Mac port industry could easily weather the storm of this transition over the next year and still be around to take advantage of an increase in OSX marketshare in the years to come.


View PostWhaleman, on April 5th 2006, 12:39 PM, said:

Anybody that could get a working install of Windows... but it wasn't hard to reboot to OS 9 either... but the fact that I often play games in short bursts of 15-30 minutes when creativity stops while working, having to reboot is a major fire trucking pain.

i dunno whaleman -- i don't think the "casual gaming" argument holds much water either. if all the mac port companies give up on making ports, their only alternative is to write new games instead. letting BootCamp take over for the big, commercial, mainstream games means that there is going to be more original creative development on the mac platform by the people who know the technology better than anyone.

in a lot of ways, if i were a guy as competent as Brad Oliver, i'd feel pretty good about BootCamp. no more boring ports, lots more original programming.  :)

EDIT: I'd just like to add that I agree with the spirit of everything Outcast said in the post above mine.

#48 tthiel

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 12:07 PM

Umm no.  It's dead.

View Postoutcast, on April 5th 2006, 10:55 AM, said:

This isn't the death of Mac gaming. This is the rebirth of Mac gaming.


#49 placebo

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 12:14 PM

The whole Mac porting thing was just an ugly thing Mac users had to endure to play games meant to run on Windows. This fixes it. Very good.

I'll still be playing made-for-Mac games like Gooball and other such original, lighthearted Mac-only diversions. But when I want to play Doom 3 or even World of Warcraft, I'll play it how it plays best: in Windows.

#50 tthiel

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 12:15 PM

Exactly.  We will know a year from now who is right but I wouldn't buy stock in a Mac game company in the meantime.

View Postplacebo, on April 5th 2006, 11:14 AM, said:

The whole Mac porting thing was just an ugly thing Mac users had to endure to play games meant to run on Windows. This fixes it. Very good.
I'll still be playing made-for-Mac games like Gooball and other such original, lighthearted Mac-only diversions. But when I want to play Doom 3 or even World of Warcraft, I'll play it how it plays best: in Windows.


#51 Auron

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 12:16 PM

View Posttthiel, on April 5th 2006, 02:07 PM, said:

Umm no.  It's dead.

Umnn no its not, that's a bunch of crap.

#52 Ben

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 12:19 PM

I don't know if it's dead or not.

I can only speak from personal experience, but I found dual booting just to play games wasn't worth it for OS 9 titles. There were a number of games I still enjoyed playing, but the hassel of shutting everything down just for 30-45 minutes of gaming wasn't really worth it for me. Heck, even firing up classic was a pain I tried to avoid.

Now, certainly, the 'hard core' Mac gamers will buy the Windows version of games when they're released, but how many in that group don't already have a 'gaming PC' or an Xbox? Is that really such a large group to lose?

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#53 tthiel

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 12:20 PM

Don't cry.  Like I said we will know who is right with time.

View PostAuron, on April 5th 2006, 11:16 AM, said:

Umnn no its not, that's a bunch of crap.


#54 mad_muppett

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 12:22 PM

View Postmad_muppett, on April 5th 2006, 06:14 PM, said:

I've submitted a screen shot to the News section.. but will upload it online l8r this evening..

Promise you it works and works very well..

Okay photo is up on my site...

Check it out at  

http://web.mac.com/r.....tel iMac.html

:w00t:

#55 tthiel

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 12:23 PM

Big difference between what was available at that time for OS 9 and OS X and what is available now for OS X vs. XP.  Dual booting is a matter of rebooting and choosing between which OS to boot from .  Not exactly difficult and well worth it to play HL 2 CS Source, FEAR etc. that we will never see on the Mac.  Now I need to put a 500 GB drive in my iMac until the desktop Intel Macs come out.

View PostBen, on April 5th 2006, 11:19 AM, said:

I don't know if it's dead or not.
I can only speak from personal experience, but I found dual booting just to play games wasn't worth it for OS 9 titles. There were a number of games I still enjoyed playing, but the hassel of shutting everything down just for 30-45 minutes of gaming wasn't really worth it for me. Heck, even firing up classic was a pain I tried to avoid.
Now, certainly, the 'hard core' Mac gamers will buy the Windows version of games when they're released, but how many in that group don't already have a 'gaming PC' or an Xbox? Is that really such a large group to lose?
Ben


#56 Beamup

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 12:26 PM

Look people, let's be realistic here.  People aren't going to be booting into Windows and staying there.  If they were going to do that, they shouldn't have bought a Mac to begin with.

By definition, anyone who would make use of Boot Camp wants to use both Mac and Windows software - but they can't do both at the same time.  And every time they want to switch, they have to reboot.  That, combined with installing and maintaining a Windows partition, means that using Boot Camp will cost a HUGE amount of time.  You also have no way to multitask between Mac and Windows apps.

Simply put, anyone who'd be in Windows the vast majority of the time wasn't on a Mac anyway.  Anyone who'd be splitting their time about evenly between Windows and OS X still can't do that without prohibitive time investment.  Which means this solution really only covers the people who want to spend almost all their time in OS X, but occasionally need/want to run a Windows program.  That won't put that big a dent in porting.

Let's also consider the fact that you won't be able to get support for this.  Apple will not provide any support.    It would be a sufficiently unconventional Windows setup that Microsoft and game developers probably won't, either.  BIG problem.
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#57 Auron

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 12:31 PM

View Posttthiel, on April 5th 2006, 02:20 PM, said:

Don't cry.  Like I said we will know who is right with time.

So you're saying all those companies making games for Macs only (Freeverse, Ambrosia) are suddenly going to stop because a few people will dual-boot their Macs? Are you stupid or just missing the point here?

#58 tthiel

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 12:35 PM

They will be booting to play games and run the occasional PC app.  Not at all difficult or far-fetched.  Sine when does anyone get support for Wndows anyway?  I still say that Mac gamers are a minority within a minority and many of them will be only too happy to dual boot to play the latest Windows games with all the features intact.  Given that the Mac game companies already have a very small population of users even a minor change is likely to cause them to go under.  Yeah I know Aspyr sells some lame Windows games. Big deal.  Thats not going to sustain them or any of the other few Mac game companies.  We will also ahve to see how well the various virtualization software works.  Thats going to take another check and eliminates the dual boot "issue" that some of you think is so onerous.

View PostAuron, on April 5th 2006, 11:31 AM, said:

So you're saying all those companies making games for Macs only (Freeverse, Ambrosia) are suddenly going to stop because a few people will dual-boot their Macs? Are you stupid or just missing the point here?


#59 steiner designer

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 12:36 PM

View Posthambone, on April 5th 2006, 11:01 AM, said:

(1) the vast majority of actively used OSX machines will continue to be PPC for the next year

I'm definitely in that (just bought a PPC recently) category as well as many others, I'm sure. Buying an Intel machine won't be a realistic option for me for another 2-3 years. When the time comes, and I have an Intel Mac, I'm not sure if I'll go the dual booting route. It does seem pretty tempting, and at the same time kind of a pain in the butt (to have to reboot back and forth).

Until then, I'll be supporting the Mac porting companies as much as I can.
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#60 Brad Oliver

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 12:40 PM

View Posthambone, on April 5th 2006, 11:01 AM, said:

in a lot of ways, if i were a guy as competent as Brad Oliver, i'd feel pretty good about BootCamp. no more boring ports, lots more original programming.  :)

You're aware that the company I work for has been branching out into PC and console games, right? We're not doing Mac versions of a lot of those other titles, and Boot Camp isn't going to help that. ;) In many ways, it doesn't make sense for us to do small Mac original titles since Aspyr is going after the big guns (and big revenue) now.
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