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#21 Blacktiger

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 09:44 AM

Now what I really want to see are bench marks comparing the mac and windows versions of apps and games. Does Quake III run faster on one or the other? Photoshop? Etc. With Apple providing the necessary drivers to get things working properly (as compared to before where some drivers were missing) we should get much better numbers.

#22 Quicksilver

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 09:47 AM

View PostWSTE_M, on April 5th 2006, 09:40 AM, said:

Mac gaming just died.

Ceremony at 12 sunday.

RIP.

W

Seriously, I thought you'd see how much this will help us Mac gamers, but then again, people said the exact same thing about the switch to Intel processors a few months ago.  Personally, I'll put a streamlined installation of Vista for gaming on my external Firewire drive when the G5 replacements come out--I can't wait!   :happy:
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#23 brute

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 09:49 AM

But, it begs the question;

What makes a 'Mac'?

A few posts up, someone mentioned that they know some people who 'wouldn't be opposed to buying a mac'. But, if you are going to get a mac and put windows on it, what's the postion?

- If a 'Mac' is about the OS, then this ability to boot into windows is a convenience thing for those who need applications that are PC-native.

- If a 'Mac' is about the hardware, and you are placing Windows on it, you are stating that you don't mind paying a premium for the hardware - you prefer the deliciousness of Apple's computer products.



My view; I think that this may further dilute what a 'Mac' is. I believe it is an interface, supported by some beautiful hardware. Beauty to the eye, not necessarily beauty of performance. I think ultimately, this is an opportunity to boost the hardware sales of Apple a little by enticing those who want to have a beautiful Windows machine (in addition to the Mac OS) and I believe that it will benefit Microsoft as well with increased OS sales.

I'm not sure if this is a clever business strategy, or a direct response to what the hackers have been able to accomplish on the new Mac hardware. I tend to believe the latter that Apple chose to capitalize on what others had been able to accomplish with dual booting.

Ultimately, I'm not sure what to think. I'm sure when I pick up the to-be-announced desktop Pro Mac, I will install Windows because I'll be able to. But, I will probably keep my Dell running as well for more of the dedicated PC stuff.

To me, the Mac is a good marriage of OS and hardware, and I feel that this is more than a little odd feeling...

-David

#24 gbafan

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 09:57 AM

View PostWhaleman, on April 5th 2006, 07:52 AM, said:

What most people here fails to realize is that we are the minority here. Dual booting isn't anything most people would consider doing just to play games. I know myself, after dual booting to OS 9 for Deus Ex... Classic performance wasn't good enough for me, and booting to OS 9 was too much work, so I quit playing the game. And if not even Deus Ex can keep me dual booting, what will? And I'm still a pretty advanced user. Seeing how among the best selling games on the Mac are games the Sims, Rollercoaster Tycoon 3, Myst, Enigmo, Bejeweled, EV, Zuma and the like... does that really speak of a market that's willing to dual boot for just a few games?
Dual booting with Boot Camp is a lot easier than it use to be with the Start Up Disk control panel.  Hold down the "alt" key startup or a reboot and pick the OS you want to run.  Who couldn't do that?
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#25 mad_muppett

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 10:02 AM

I've got Battlefield II running sweet as a nut on a 17" 1.8 Intel iMac
At last my life is complete.. happy days!

#26 tthiel

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 10:14 AM

View PostWhaleman, on April 5th 2006, 07:52 AM, said:

What most people here fails to realize is that we are the minority here.The casual gamer will never accept to boot to a different OS just for a game. Period.

I think you're disproving your own point.  The Mac gamer community is pretty small and pretty hard core.  They are exactly the kind of people who will dual boot to run the latest games and run them faster and with all features enable compared to Mac games.  Dual booting is not difficult at all espcially with Boot Camp.  I said months when Apple said they were going with Intel procs that Mac gaming is dead.  I'm even more sure of that now.

#27 gbafan

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 10:15 AM

View Postmad_muppett, on April 5th 2006, 09:02 AM, said:

I've got Battlefield II running sweet as a nut on a 17" 1.8 Intel iMac
At last my life is complete.. happy days!
ZOMG! Screens?!?!?!?!?!  Srsly?  ;)
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#28 Mookiteo

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 10:15 AM

View Postmad_muppett, on April 5th 2006, 09:02 AM, said:

I've got Battlefield II running sweet as a nut on a 17" 1.8 Intel iMac
At last my life is complete.. happy days!

That's just too short a post.  It's practically mean. :)  

Do tell more. How's performance, was the install easy and use easy?

#29 tthiel

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 10:17 AM

XP was running faster on MacBook Pros without all of the Apple supplied drivers than on PC laptops with same specs...

This really makes the desktop Conroe Proc macs even more exciting.  OS X and PC games at blazing speed....

View PostBlacktiger, on April 5th 2006, 08:44 AM, said:

Now what I really want to see are bench marks comparing the mac and windows versions of apps and games. Does Quake III run faster on one or the other? Photoshop? Etc. With Apple providing the necessary drivers to get things working properly (as compared to before where some drivers were missing) we should get much better numbers.


#30 iRolley

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 10:28 AM

The issue here is the gap between PC release and Mac release.

For example, even though I could play Quake 4 in Windows on my intel Mac, I am going to buy the Mac version now that it is available. But for games that are already available on Windows and only announced for Mac... it makes it harder/more frustrating to wait for the Mac version.

#31 tthiel

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 10:31 AM

I was going to buy Quake 4 for the Mac but see no point now. It's not that great a game anyway and now that I can play whatever I want its not of any interest.  I have COD 2 for the PC now and will be running that on my Mac as well.

#32 stutz

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 10:34 AM

This has got to be the worst day in Feral, Aspyr, Macsoft history.

I really don't see how the already slim profit margin of Mac game publishing will survive more than another couple years. I'm sure Mac ports will still sell, but a lot less than before depending on how popular the title is, killing the profitability of Mac game publishing once Intel based Macs really take over the Mac user base. This year could very well be the last year of significance in Mac games for the AAA titles. Strangely enough, I imagine this doesn't affect smaller guys like Pangea, Freeverse or Ambrosia. Actually this will force all game titles to be done the way Blizzard does things (both Mac and Windows compatible). Aspyr has done a little of this, but unless they do everything like Stubbs, the big boys are in serious trouble.

I imagine there will be an enormous problems early on with this thing (it's only in beta now), but with Apple's full support, it will be running smoothly with the release of Leopard.

I'm wondering what Microsoft thinks. Sure, they have access to an additional 3%-5% marketshare now, but now it will be so easy for people to see how much their operating system sucks compared to Mac OS X. With this announcement Vista might get delayed......again...to 2008?

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#33 DaveyJJ

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 10:35 AM

View PostBlacktiger, on April 5th 2006, 11:44 AM, said:

Now what I really want to see are bench marks comparing the mac and windows versions of apps and games. Does Quake III run faster on one or the other? Photoshop? Etc. With Apple providing the necessary drivers to get things working properly (as compared to before where some drivers were missing) we should get much better numbers.

I'll provide Photoshop ones later. Our firms has tons of licenses (some always not in use) for me to install as the chief graphics software guru here. My best guess now ... I'm doin gthe bootcamp thing behind me ... is that Photoshop may even run faster under XP than it does under OSX because of the whole Rosetta thing and the PC version is most-likely dual-core aware. I'll post later.

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#34 Whaleman

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 10:39 AM

View Postgbafan, on April 5th 2006, 05:57 PM, said:

Dual booting with Boot Camp is a lot easier than it use to be with the Start Up Disk control panel.  Hold down the "alt" key startup or a reboot and pick the OS you want to run.  Who couldn't do that?

Anybody that could get a working install of Windows... but it wasn't hard to reboot to OS 9 either... but the fact that I often play games in short bursts of 15-30 minutes when creativity stops while working, having to reboot is a major fire trucking pain. Having to save everything, shut all open apps down, reboot, play a while, quit, reboot again, start licence managers, X11, applications, open all documents and start over. It's not "just" to reboot. The "just" takes several minutes in this case.

Imagine trying to log in to WoW to see how your actions are going on a dual boot machine ;) Not the best of examples since WoW works amazing on intel machines... but imagine something similar in City of Heroes/Villains. If all you ever play game is hours on a row, well, then dual booting isn't much of an issue... but a lot of people only play short bursts .A few deathmacthes during lunch, a quick quest before dinner and similar. Dual Booting is an obstacle and not a help for those occasion.
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#35 DaveyJJ

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 10:40 AM

View PostMookiteo, on April 5th 2006, 12:15 PM, said:

That's just too short a post.  It's practically mean. :)  

Do tell more. How's performance, was the install easy and use easy?

Forget that, grab the Rome Total War demo here ... and test that. Please, please, please......

http://www.gamershel...load_6784.shtml

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#36 Atticus

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 10:48 AM

Yep--mark your calendars--Wednesday, April 5th is the day Mac Gaming officially died. I feel bad for the employees of the Mac porting houses, but have no doubt they'll go on to greener pastures.

Personally, I have mixed feelings--sad that "Mac gaming," as its own entity, is gone, but OTOH, a little bit giddy about being able to play AAA PC titles on Mac hardware (when I do finally upgrade from my dual G5 to Mactel).

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#37 seveneleven

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 10:49 AM

Look at this german site. Live installment and game testing. Games run like cream!!!! Next will be 3D Mark 06 test.

http://www.mactechne...nction=2&id=145

#38 Mister Mumbles

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 10:50 AM

More like RIP my Xbox, for me, since I only really play games on it that were also released on PC, but were never made available to the Mac.

*dreams of playing Pirates!, Stronghold 2, and Dreamfall on his future Intel Mac*  :w00t:
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#39 Mookiteo

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 10:53 AM

View PostPegasus, on April 5th 2006, 09:50 AM, said:

More like RIP my Xbox, for me, since I only really play games on it that were also released on PC, but were never made available to the Mac.

*dreams of playing Pirates! and Dreamfall on his future Intel Mac*  :w00t:

I'm thinking the same thing.  I just picked up an Xbox 360 this weekend and this news is making me wonder if I needed to.

#40 tthiel

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 10:54 AM

I almost bought an Xbox yesterday.  Glad I didn't.