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Fallout 3


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#21 Huntn

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Posted 07 May 2007 - 09:11 AM

View PostRev-O, on May 7th 2007, 08:25 AM, said:

Heck, I'd pick up a Mac version of ES3 today if someone released it.

I have purcashed ES3 and will be playing it as soon as I buy a MacBook Pro in Oct when Leopard comes out.

#22 DavidM

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Posted 08 May 2007 - 06:15 PM

As the great game philosopher once said;

If one Plays Fallout 1 and one plays Fallout 2, has not one played Fallout 3? :blink:

But seriously, I got the impression from reading on the subject, they were unwilling to give up there code for someone to port. So, probably no Fallout 3

#23 Dark_Archon

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Posted 08 May 2007 - 09:31 PM

View PostRev-O, on May 7th 2007, 09:25 AM, said:

Fallout 3 is supposedly using much the same engine as Oblivion from what vague statements have been made by Bethesda.

What?!?!?!?! It isn't turn based combat?
Fallout will not work as a game styled after Elder Scrolls. If the rest of Bethesda's games are any hint, it is going to have a moronically simple storyline, and it will lack the satire and wit that made Fallout 1 and 2 the games they are.
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#24 DavidM

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 01:25 PM

That would be a concern as well, but, the Gamespot note did indicate they had purchased not only the property Fallout 3, but also all of the work that had been done on Fallout 3 before Interplay went under. This at least gives some small hope they might maintain the isometric game play and look and feel and storyline of Fallout.

On the other hand it being released for consules suggests an inherit dumbing down of the gameplay unfortunately.

#25 Rev-O

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 06:57 PM

From a Fallout 3 FAQ posted on No Mutants Allowed:
"Can we expect something similar to the work done on Morrowind, in terms of that style of game experience?
Pete Hines: Again, it's early to say, but it wouldn't be a leap of faith to say that we plan to use technologies in development otherwise. You could make some fairly safe leaps of faith that it would be similar in style. We're not going to go away from what it is that we do best. We're not going to suddenly do a top-down isometric Baldur's Gate-style game, because that's not what we do well."
Much of this FAQ is from discussion prior to ES4 (which means much of this info is oldish), and the technology & engine that the folks from Bethesda are referring to are presumably/probably the work being done for ES4. When I reading the statements from Bethesda contained here (as well as similar stuff on the web), it says to me Fallout 3 is going to be Elder Scrolls: Fallout. Supposedly much effort is being made to keep the games galows humor though.

#26 Eric5h5

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 07:16 PM

Well, count me out, then, even if there was the slightest possibility of a Mac version (heh heh).  No doubt they'll have the bad guys level with you, too.  :blarf:

--Eric

#27 DavidM

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 11:45 PM

Yes, I have seen the info on using the Elder Scrolls engine, I was trying to put a positive spin on it before they take the Fallout franchise to the abyss.


And seriously, Elder Scrolls 5:Fallout, which is what it is shaping up to be from the many other things I read, is something I have zero interest in seeing on any platform.

#28 Huntn

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Posted 10 May 2007 - 08:33 AM

I recently looked at some old Fallout screenshots to refresh my memory. As compared to the previous Fallout version (itty-bitty characters in isometric view),  1st/3rd person adjustable camera perspective in Fallout 3 (similiar to Oblvion) would be a welcome change for myself.

#29 Cyan421

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Posted 10 May 2007 - 08:42 AM

View PostRev-O, on May 9th 2007, 06:57 PM, said:

Pete Hines: We're not going to go away from what it is that we do best. We're not going to suddenly do a top-down isometric Baldur's Gate-style game, because that's not what we do well."

So he is saying that what they do well is make good LOOKING games not good games.......?

#30 Eric5h5

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Posted 10 May 2007 - 12:02 PM

View PostCyan421, on May 10th 2007, 10:42 AM, said:

So he is saying that what they do well is make good LOOKING games not good games.......?

Could be.  There's a place for 1st-person RPGs (I enjoyed Dungeon Master way back in the '80s), but to apply that paradigm to all RPGs is to destroy gameplay.

--Eric

#31 Frost

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Posted 10 May 2007 - 01:48 PM

View PostEric5h5, on May 10th 2007, 01:02 PM, said:

Could be.  There's a place for 1st-person RPGs (I enjoyed Dungeon Master way back in the '80s), but to apply that paradigm to all RPGs is to destroy gameplay.

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Agreed. I think Fallout is one of those game types that will always come across better in the third person.
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#32 DavidM

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Posted 10 May 2007 - 09:32 PM

Give me isometric or give me death!

or perhaps put another way:

Taking Fallout's isometric turn based game play and turning it into a First person arcade RPG is the same as going from Baldur's Gate to Diablo...

Making it not the same thing anymore. You can call it Fallout because you have the license, but still, it is not.

#33 Huntn

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 02:21 PM

The Elder Scrolls type camera allows the camera to set to whatever angle you want in addtion to 1st or 3rd person serving everyone's preferences. :)

#34 bookman

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 02:40 PM

View PostDavidM, on May 10th 2007, 10:32 PM, said:

Give me isometric or give me death!

Making it not the same thing anymore. You can call it Fallout because you have the license, but still, it is not.

Precisely - the look and feel were an integral part of the originals. I can't see Bethesda capturing the humor of the game either. They'' probably turn it into some serious, boring game.

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#35 Eric5h5

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 03:39 PM

View PostHuntn, on May 11th 2007, 04:21 PM, said:

The Elder Scrolls type camera allows the camera to set to whatever angle you want in addtion to 1st or 3rd person serving everyone's preferences. :)

That's fine, but doesn't address the fact that a proper Fallout game wouldn't be playable from a 1st person viewpoint, thus making the option entirely pointless.  Kind of like the "1st-person" view in Warcraft 3...you can do it, but why?  You certainly can't play the game like that....  You sometimes have more than 1 character to keep track of in Fallout, and it's hard to make many tactical decisions in a 1st-person view.  Plus they'll probably make it realtime instead of turn-based too. :bleedingeyes:

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#36 Huntn

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 04:46 PM

View PostEric5h5, on May 11th 2007, 04:39 PM, said:

That's fine, but doesn't address the fact that a proper Fallout game wouldn't be playable from a 1st person viewpoint, thus making the option entirely pointless.  Kind of like the "1st-person" view in Warcraft 3...you can do it, but why?  You certainly can't play the game like that....  You sometimes have more than 1 character to keep track of in Fallout, and it's hard to make many tactical decisions in a 1st-person view.  Plus they'll probably make it realtime instead of turn-based too. :bleedingeyes:

--Eric

Actually I never play ES4 in first person because I want the situational awareness so the ES4 camera controls would be good for a new Fallout. ;) I was just mentioning 1st person because you can do it if you want to.

#37 Tacohead

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 07:42 PM

View PostHuntn, on May 11th 2007, 03:46 PM, said:

Actually I never play ES4 in first person because I want the situational awareness so the ES4 camera controls would be good for a new Fallout. ;) I was just mentioning 1st person because you can do it if you want to.

I think he meant if they design the game around a 3D engine with rotating cameras then it just wouldn't be the same, even if the viewpoint could be adjusted.

Plus, some people don't like having to deal with cameras. In Fallout 1 & 2 you never had to worry about fidgeting with cameras because there were none. The view was always exactly what was needed and perfect in a tactical manner. The viewpoint zoomed in on certain NPCs for conversations but that was about it.

Making Fallout 3D, with all the stuff associated with 3D, is like making a 3D version of Checkers or something. What's the point?

So if Bethesda goes this route with Fallout 3 it will probably look nice, but it won't be Fallout. Changing the combat to real-time would make it even less like Fallout. I wish them the best of luck with this but it could be a disaster in the making.

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#38 Dark_Archon

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 11:48 AM

Agreed.

They can call it a Fallout inspired action RPG if they want, but sadly, it isn't the sequel to Fallout 2. We will probably never see a true Fallout 3.
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#39 Huntn

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 04:07 PM

View PostTacohead, on May 11th 2007, 08:42 PM, said:

I think he meant if they design the game around a 3D engine with rotating cameras then it just wouldn't be the same, even if the viewpoint could be adjusted.

Plus, some people don't like having to deal with cameras. In Fallout 1 & 2 you never had to worry about fidgeting with cameras because there were none. The view was always exactly what was needed and perfect in a tactical manner. The viewpoint zoomed in on certain NPCs for conversations but that was about it.

Making Fallout 3D, with all the stuff associated with 3D, is like making a 3D version of Checkers or something. What's the point?

So if Bethesda goes this route with Fallout 3 it will probably look nice, but it won't be Fallout. Changing the combat to real-time would make it even less like Fallout. I wish them the best of luck with this but it could be a disaster in the making.

-PN

I respect different opinions, but I assume that previous Fallout and other isometric view games were created due to limits in technology at the time they were created. An argument for isometric nostalgia can be made, but I don't think it serves todays gamers unless of course the goal is to be retro which I don't think most gamers or major game developers are interested in. Your analogy of why have 3D checkers is not valid imo because well checkers is just checkers. If the goal is to make an exact duplicate of a previous RPG but only in 3D, then really why bother?  New games take advantage of new technology and should not allow themselves to be boxed into a dated format. A game plot and setting like Fallout can be improved upon without destroying the nature of it's game play, can't it? I never really got into RPGs until I played WoW. I realize this holds no weight with classic RPGers, but it was a combination of good game play along with visual immersion into the setting where you could look around from a near 3rd person view and see a complete environment.

If someone does not like messing with a camera I understand, but I found that with minimal fuss, I became acclimated to it quickly and now make adjustments as second nature.

#40 Rev-O

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 05:59 PM

View PostHuntn, on May 12th 2007, 04:07 PM, said:

I respect different opinions, but I assume that previous Fallout and other isometric view games were created due to limits in technology at the time they were created. An argument for isometric nostalgia can be made, but I don't think it serves todays gamers unless of course the goal is to be retro which I don't think most gamers or major game developers are interested in. Your analogy of why have 3D checkers is not valid imo because well checkers is just checkers. If the goal is to make an exact duplicate of a previous RPG but only in 3D, then really why bother?  New games take advantage of new technology and should not allow themselves to be boxed into a dated format. A game plot and setting like Fallout can be improved upon without destroying the nature of it's game play, can't it? I never really got into RPGs until I played WoW. I realize this holds no weight with classic RPGers, but it was a combination of good game play along with visual immersion into the setting where you could look around from a near 3rd person view and see a complete environment.

If someone does not like messing with a camera I understand, but I found that with minimal fuss, I became acclimated to it quickly and now make adjustments as second nature.

What I take issue with in general is the notion that some people have that newer technology = better game, which is not always the case. Cutting edge graphics do not make a bad game good, they just make a bad game pretty. I would not make the case that this will be the case with Fallout 3, just pointing sumptin' out ;)
OTOH, isometric views doesn't make a game necessarily better either! 3D rpgs have a tendency to focus less on solid story and charater building and more on hack and slash and eye candy, IMHO.