Jump to content


Civ III the "new port"


  • Please log in to reply
77 replies to this topic

#41 Eric5h5

Eric5h5

    Minion Tormentor

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7160 posts

Posted 25 January 2006 - 05:50 PM

View Posttotallywhacked, on January 25th 2006, 03:35 PM, said:

1) So we have a user with a G5 dual processor with 1.5 GB ram saying the game runs just as slow as it ever did.

You mean, just as FAST as it ever did.  It runs just about exactly the same on a 600MHz G3 as it does on a dual 2.5GHz G5, which I know from personal experience.  It's a turn-based game, and there are more units to control later in the game...short of re-writing it to turn it into a RTS or something, I'm not sure what Aspyr is supposed to do to make it "faster."

I don't have the new port, but I seriously doubt there are any speed issues, and it should run under Rosetta just fine.

--Eric

#42 totallywhacked

totallywhacked

    Fanatic

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 117 posts

Posted 25 January 2006 - 08:14 PM

View PostMaestro, on January 25th 2006, 02:55 PM, said:

Civilization isn't a game that "runs fast", it isn't Quake or Doom. It is a turn based game, it takes time in between turns (especially when the you see the entire map). It may seem "slow" but that is the design of the game.
no, Civilization isn't all that demanding. It will run just fine under Rosetta. I hope one of the devlopers can confirm this.
what kind optimization are you looking for?

dude, thanks for the input, but have you ever played this game? I was playing the original port on OS 9 a couple years ago, and on that machine (imac 500 MHz, 512 MB) it was slow. Not slow as in "frames per second" as you might discuss when talking about Doom or something. No. I mean slow when scrolling, slow when the computer would take turns, slow when units are moving about on the railroads to different parts of your territory. Yes, slow. Of course it is turn-based. That is one of the GOOD things about this game. I was wondering if any of that had been improved. And yes, I feel that as the average non-universal app takes a 50% hit in performance, we should definitely be asking whether this NEW GAME is built to run native on the new macintels.

'nuff said.

#43 dojoboy

dojoboy

    DJJ is the greatest!

  • IMG Pro Users
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3449 posts
  • Steam ID:dojoboy65
  • Location:Tanasi (USA)
  • Pro Member:Yes

Posted 26 January 2006 - 07:14 AM

Anyone playing Civ3 Complete, or Civ3, on large and huge maps is going to suffer significant between-turn delays.  It's due to AI computation-like stuff.  ;)  I've never played a game on those size maps.  On standard size maps, the game has minimal pause times, and then only when a war is taking place.
"There is no end to sorrow."  ---Van Gogh

#44 Fourth Horseman

Fourth Horseman

    Notorious

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 151 posts
  • Location:On your six, 1.2nm... and I have tone!

Posted 26 January 2006 - 01:36 PM

View Postdojoboy, on January 26th 2006, 06:14 AM, said:

Anyone playing Civ3 Complete, or Civ3, on large and huge maps is going to suffer significant between-turn delays.  It's due to AI computation-like stuff.  ;)  I've never played a game on those size maps.  On standard size maps, the game has minimal pause times, and then only when a war is taking place.

I only play on huge maps, myself. :) I've noticed there seems to be a longer pause with the newer version that what I saw with the previous release. Could it be that map size is larger? I even get skips and pauses in game music that I never saw before.

Other than that and not being able to Command-H to hide a full-screen game, the rest of the game runs great.
- FH -
MacBook Pro 15" (2010): 2.53 GHz Core i5, 8 GB RAM, 128 GB SSD, Hi-Res (1680x1050) display, MacOS X 10.7.1
PowerMac G5: dual 1.8 GHz, 4 GB RAM, Radeon 9600 PC & Mac Edition, Dell U2410 24" LCD, MacOS X 10.5.8
PC: Core i7 960 3.6 GHz, Asus P6X58D mobo, 12 GB DDR3-2000MHz RAM, Radeon HD5970, Samsung 245BW 24" LCD, Win 7 64bit

#45 dojoboy

dojoboy

    DJJ is the greatest!

  • IMG Pro Users
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3449 posts
  • Steam ID:dojoboy65
  • Location:Tanasi (USA)
  • Pro Member:Yes

Posted 26 January 2006 - 05:02 PM

View PostFourth Horseman, on January 26th 2006, 02:36 PM, said:

Other than that and not being able to Command-H to hide a full-screen game, the rest of the game runs great.

Expose should still be operative.  It is in my build.  Well, it is in window mode.
"There is no end to sorrow."  ---Van Gogh

#46 Maestro

Maestro

    Legendary

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 662 posts
  • Steam Name:kgmoome
  • Location:Boston

Posted 26 January 2006 - 05:07 PM

View Postdojoboy, on January 26th 2006, 05:02 PM, said:

Expose should still be operative.  It is in my build.  Well, it is in window mode.

it's wierd that Aspyr can't fix bugs that exist in the PC version.

I think ports would be better if Aspyr has more control over the game.
Tortillas are sleeping bags for ground beef.

#47 Brad Oliver

Brad Oliver

    Awesome Developer Dude Guy

  • Developer
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1692 posts
  • Steam Name:hoserama99
  • Steam ID:hoserama99
  • Location:Glendale, AZ
  • Pro Member:Yes

Posted 27 January 2006 - 03:39 PM

View PostMaestro, on January 26th 2006, 04:07 PM, said:

it's wierd that Aspyr can't fix bugs that exist in the PC version.

Depending on the bug, we can. Since you quoted something about Expose though, I'm not sure how this falls into the category of PC bug fixing. ;)
Brad Oliver
bradman at pobox dot com

#48 totallywhacked

totallywhacked

    Fanatic

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 117 posts

Posted 28 January 2006 - 01:42 AM

Hi Brad,

So YOU would know: Is civ.III complete going to be released in Universal Binary?
And do you have an agreement to fix bugs should they arise?

#49 Brad Oliver

Brad Oliver

    Awesome Developer Dude Guy

  • Developer
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1692 posts
  • Steam Name:hoserama99
  • Steam ID:hoserama99
  • Location:Glendale, AZ
  • Pro Member:Yes

Posted 28 January 2006 - 02:34 PM

View Posttotallywhacked, on January 28th 2006, 12:42 AM, said:

So YOU would know: Is civ.III complete going to be released in Universal Binary?
And do you have an agreement to fix bugs should they arise?

It'll eventually be a Universal Binary, sure. We weren't planning on seeing Intel Macs quite so soon, so it wasn't ready in time for the new hardware.

I don't know how to answer your second question though. We do fix bugs, although ones that also exist on the PC side are a much lower priority than Mac-specific bugs in the short-term.
Brad Oliver
bradman at pobox dot com

#50 dgallina

dgallina

    Fanatic

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 57 posts

Posted 29 January 2006 - 03:22 AM

Brad:

Talking about bugs: Civ 3 Complete has crashed 3 times in about 6 hours of separate play on my dual 1.8ghz G5 and 1.5 Ghz G4 PowerBook (both running 10.4.4).

Do you have any known crashes that you're working on fixing? Anything we can do to provide bug detail towards an eventual patch?

Otherwise very pleased to play the final Civ 3 variant on the Mac!

Diego

View PostBrad Oliver, on January 28th 2006, 03:34 PM, said:

We do fix bugs, although ones that also exist on the PC side are a much lower priority than Mac-specific bugs in the short-term.


#51 Thain Esh Kelch

Thain Esh Kelch

    Admin

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3779 posts
  • Steam ID:thaineshkelch
  • Location:Denmark

Posted 29 January 2006 - 07:18 AM

View Posttotallywhacked, on January 26th 2006, 03:14 AM, said:

dude, thanks for the input, but have you ever played this game? I was playing the original port on OS 9 a couple years ago, and on that machine (imac 500 MHz, 512 MB) it was slow. Not slow as in "frames per second" as you might discuss when talking about Doom or something. No. I mean slow when scrolling, slow when the computer would take turns, slow when units are moving about on the railroads to different parts of your territory. Yes, slow. Of course it is turn-based. That is one of the GOOD things about this game. I was wondering if any of that had been improved. And yes, I feel that as the average non-universal app takes a 50% hit in performance, we should definitely be asking whether this NEW GAME is built to run native on the new macintels.

'nuff said.
Funny, runs perfect here on the same machine as you have. And I even has less ram.

The only thing slow is the computerturns, and I can live with that.
"They're everywhere!" -And now, time for some Legend of Zelda.

iMac 2011, quad 3,4Ghz i7, 1TB Samsung EVO 840, 8GB RAM, 2GB Radeon 6970m. + 2016 Macbook m3 + iPad 2 64GB + iPhone 4S 64GB + Girlfriend + Daughter

#52 osprey54

osprey54

    Fan

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 15 posts

Posted 29 January 2006 - 06:09 PM

in terms of slow, i can provide an example of how it's not turnbased slow, but actually SLOW slow. For example, in the original CivIII, when playing the huge earth scenario in modern times, the AI turn could take up to 1 hour to complete. On a friend's PC, a similar turn (actually with more nations and cities and units total) would take FAR less time to complete.

Also, on the topic of full screen mode (Brad, you may be able to answer this), why don't more games have the ability to hide the game or put it into a windowed mode nowadays?

#53 dojoboy

dojoboy

    DJJ is the greatest!

  • IMG Pro Users
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3449 posts
  • Steam ID:dojoboy65
  • Location:Tanasi (USA)
  • Pro Member:Yes

Posted 29 January 2006 - 06:11 PM

View Postosprey54, on January 29th 2006, 07:09 PM, said:

in terms of slow, i can provide an example of how it's not turnbased slow, but actually SLOW slow. For example, in the original CivIII, when playing the huge earth scenario in modern times, the AI turn could take up to 1 hour to complete.

Why on earth would anyone suffer through that.   :blink:
"There is no end to sorrow."  ---Van Gogh

#54 eschatz

eschatz

    Legendary

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 788 posts
  • Location:Baltimore, Maryland

Posted 29 January 2006 - 06:55 PM

This game has repeatedly crashed on me and it still has the missing sound effects issue the old port did. I posted a bug report at Aspyr's support but their solutions did not remedy these issues.
Edward

#55 Brad Oliver

Brad Oliver

    Awesome Developer Dude Guy

  • Developer
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1692 posts
  • Steam Name:hoserama99
  • Steam ID:hoserama99
  • Location:Glendale, AZ
  • Pro Member:Yes

Posted 29 January 2006 - 09:18 PM

View Postdgallina, on January 29th 2006, 02:22 AM, said:

Talking about bugs: Civ 3 Complete has crashed 3 times in about 6 hours of separate play on my dual 1.8ghz G5 and 1.5 Ghz G4 PowerBook (both running 10.4.4).

E-mail your crash logs to me : brad@aspyr.com.

View Postosprey54, on January 29th 2006, 05:09 PM, said:

in terms of slow, i can provide an example of how it's not turnbased slow, but actually SLOW slow. For example, in the original CivIII, when playing the huge earth scenario in modern times, the AI turn could take up to 1 hour to complete. On a friend's PC, a similar turn (actually with more nations and cities and units total) would take FAR less time to complete.

That's great to hear - I haven't had very good luck reproducing this. Every time I benchmark the AI on my 800 MHz G4 vs. my 933 MHz P3, I get roughly the same timings out of the AI. If you can provide me with a saved-game file that exhibits slowness on the Mac but is dramatically faster on the PC, I can probably fix this pretty easily. E-mail it to brad@aspyr.com.

Quote

Also, on the topic of full screen mode (Brad, you may be able to answer this), why don't more games have the ability to hide the game or put it into a windowed mode nowadays?

I think most games do (Civ3 included). I suppose there are specific games that may not, but of the recent titles I've worked on, I'm not aware of any that don't allow this.
Brad Oliver
bradman at pobox dot com

#56 Eric5h5

Eric5h5

    Minion Tormentor

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7160 posts

Posted 30 January 2006 - 03:43 AM

View Postosprey54, on January 29th 2006, 07:09 PM, said:

For example, in the original CivIII, when playing the huge earth scenario in modern times, the AI turn could take up to 1 hour to complete.

What were you playing it on, an original 128K Mac?  ;)  Seriously, something's completely wonky there, as I never saw the AI take anywhere remotely like that kind of time.  Maybe, what, a minute or so at the very longest.

--Eric

#57 totallywhacked

totallywhacked

    Fanatic

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 117 posts

Posted 30 January 2006 - 09:07 PM

Well you know, that's what I'm talking about with the speed issues:

1) Player turn: any time a unit has to move a long distance, say by rail, things slow down a lot, because it takes a long time for the units (possibly up to a hundred) to go to where they were sent. Cities go into revolt, slows (maybe because it takes time to report?).

2) Computer turns: same thing, only longer. I never had an hour long move, but it still felt slow. Maybe 5 minutes or something.

Crashes:

The older port felt clunky and slow in this regard, on OS9 on an nld imacDVSE with 512MB ram. It would also crash fairly often. Not all the time, but often enough. And autosave turns would not work. Sometimes when crashing there would first be a bird twittering.

#58 osprey54

osprey54

    Fan

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 15 posts

Posted 31 January 2006 - 07:10 PM

Quote

That's great to hear - I haven't had very good luck reproducing this. Every time I benchmark the AI on my 800 MHz G4 vs. my 933 MHz P3, I get roughly the same timings out of the AI. If you can provide me with a saved-game file that exhibits slowness on the Mac but is dramatically faster on the PC, I can probably fix this pretty easily. E-mail it to brad@aspyr.com.

I haven't tried the complete edition, I was providing an example about the old one and how it is SLOW slow and not Turn Based Strategy slow. I could send you my game (vers 1.29f), but I cant get a hold of the PC one.

Quote

What were you playing it on, an original 128K Mac?   Seriously, something's completely wonky there, as I never saw the AI take anywhere remotely like that kind of time. Maybe, what, a minute or so at the very longest.

1 minute? that's amazing! it takes me about 3 times that long just to load the game. But yeah, an AI turn could take up to a minute in ancient times w/ fewer units and nations. The world map game I was playing had almost the maximum number of nations (14 I think), and I personally contolled armies of 800-1000 units (886 in this particular case). Each computer had between 200-500 units. Running the game again just now on a 1.2GHz G4 w/ 1.25GB RM, an AI turn took exactly 42 minutes with no movement being shown. Running it back when I was using an 800 MHz G4, I can remember the turn taking up to an hour, which seems very probable based on my results now.

Some of the game rules in this scenario have been changed from the original, but I don't know if that is the cause of the slowdown.

#59 Brad Oliver

Brad Oliver

    Awesome Developer Dude Guy

  • Developer
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1692 posts
  • Steam Name:hoserama99
  • Steam ID:hoserama99
  • Location:Glendale, AZ
  • Pro Member:Yes

Posted 01 February 2006 - 10:19 AM

View Postosprey54, on January 31st 2006, 06:10 PM, said:

I haven't tried the complete edition, I was providing an example about the old one and how it is SLOW slow and not Turn Based Strategy slow. I could send you my game (vers 1.29f), but I cant get a hold of the PC one.

The saved games are interchangeable between Mac and PC. Are you saying that you're comparing performance of 2 different saved games? At any rate, I can load up your saved game on my PC and get a pretty good comparison. E-mail it to brad@aspyr.com

Judging from your last post though, I'd fully expect to see it take as long on the PC simply because you've got a grotesquely large and complex game going.
Brad Oliver
bradman at pobox dot com

#60 Thain Esh Kelch

Thain Esh Kelch

    Admin

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3779 posts
  • Steam ID:thaineshkelch
  • Location:Denmark

Posted 09 February 2006 - 06:46 AM

Just got around to try it on my iMac 500. The Complete version is DEFINATELY slower on all things compared to the original. Actually it now feels so slow that I wont play it on this machine.. :(
"They're everywhere!" -And now, time for some Legend of Zelda.

iMac 2011, quad 3,4Ghz i7, 1TB Samsung EVO 840, 8GB RAM, 2GB Radeon 6970m. + 2016 Macbook m3 + iPad 2 64GB + iPhone 4S 64GB + Girlfriend + Daughter