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Paying people to beat early levels?


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#1 jgwdoc

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Posted 09 December 2005 - 08:50 AM

Can you believe this? Paying Chinese kids to beat the early levels of MMORPGs and then sliding into the game with accumulated gold? NY Times/Gold Farming
There ought to be a 10 commandments for gamers outlawing that sort of thing.
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#2 StopDropBurn

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Posted 09 December 2005 - 09:22 AM

Erm, this has been around for a looong time, this is nothing new, however, I don't see how that should be out-lawed, I wouldn't do it, but since they WANT to do it, why not?
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#3 Hippieman

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Posted 09 December 2005 - 10:03 AM

Gamers are SOOOO outraged by this...

and yet people keep buying the chinese gold.  I have a chinese farmer from WoW on my friends list, he's hilarious.  Not a bad guy, very broken english but he's able to have fun in the game while farming.
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#4 jgwdoc

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Posted 09 December 2005 - 10:10 AM

Askilfeasd, on December 9th 2005, 08:22 AM, said:

Erm, this has been around for a looong time, this is nothing new, however, I don't see how that should be out-lawed, I wouldn't do it, but since they WANT to do it, why not?

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I guess that's what I get for getting my news from the NY Times--I'm years out of date. I still find it kind of shocking, not from the point of view of the Chinese who are just making a living, but from the gamers who are cheating their way to the upper levels.
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#5 StopDropBurn

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Posted 09 December 2005 - 11:14 AM

They aren't "cheating" their way, they are cheating themselves, they are PAYING real money to get to a higher level? They are cheating themselves out of the fun of it as well.
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#6 Morrigan

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Posted 09 December 2005 - 12:19 PM

Askilfeasd, on December 9th 2005, 11:14 AM, said:

They aren't "cheating" their way, they are cheating themselves, they are PAYING real money to get to a higher level? They are cheating themselves out of the fun of it as well.

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Ah yes, and those people who play Unreal Tournament are being cheated because they didn't spend 9 months grinding to earn the ability to PvP. If your goal in WoW is to PvP but you don't have time for the grind, why not pay someone to get you to 60? Makes more sense from that perspective.

The real problem with these farmers is they alter the game economy. In EVE Online there are macro-using asteroid miners in such abundance that they've significantly mangled the market price of the minerals they are dumping on the market. This really hurts the guy who mines for a virtual living, for example. But in addition to this, the macro farmers earn huge piles of $$$ off the mining/selling to NPCs and then sell those virtual monies, which causes inflation in a big way. The small guy working his way through the game finds he no longer can afford to buy cool toys because his income is tied to static forms of income while inflation has blown the price of anything player-produced/controlled out of his range.

I'm not sure what it is like now, but the Auction House in WoW had similar problems. Items that were worth $ were being sold for $$$ because people were buying piles of farmed gold and inflating things horribly. If you wanted a level 40 whacker of immenseness, you had to spend a lot more time farming gold, or go buy some virtual gold on ebay. Dunno if that is still the situation, but I saw a serious increase in the cost of AH items over my several months of play.

#7 the Battle Cat

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Posted 09 December 2005 - 03:20 PM

I'm not going to close or merge this topic into another farming thread, but I am going to move it to the Adventure & RPG forum.  You might want to climb on top of a gold sluicing box or sit on a Giantstalker's Helmet because we are going to be passing over Stubbs in the Action forum.  He can jump pretty high and if any of you guys have your heads up your asses he just might be able to reach your brains!  Not saying you do.  You know, just saying.  

[Edit - Actually that gag was a lot funnier in my head.  Maybe I'm the one that should be sitting on the Giantstalker's Helmet - tBC]

But to add some relevant content into this discussion, there are at least a dozen Chinese gold farming spammer's posts that I've removed from the forums.  This has been going on for awhile, started up right about when the game became popular.
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#8 Frost

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Posted 09 December 2005 - 07:20 PM

jgwdoc, on December 9th 2005, 10:10 AM, said:

I guess that's what I get for getting my news from the NY Times--I'm years out of date. I still find it kind of shocking, not from the point of view of the Chinese who are just making a living, but from the gamers who are cheating their way to the upper levels.

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Not to start a debate or anything, but just purely for the sake of commenting that's one of several reasons I dropped the NY Times from my regular news sources. News can be late, and too often seems to have a political slant to it to me. I've since gone elsewhere.

On the subject of gold/item farming, I do think it's gotten just a tad out of control. My cousin's roommate at SMU runs Diablo II bots on his computer when he's not at class and sells any really good items on eBay. I can understand wanting to bypass a tedious system, but when you get to something like what Mr. Roomie is doing it's just really not in keeping with the spirit of the game if you ask me.

I was going to make a persuasive comparison right here, but my brain is so fried from finals and crap all day that I lost my train of thought. Oh well. :)
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#9 Zwilnik

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Posted 09 December 2005 - 08:40 PM

One solution is to do what MUDs do and simply reset the game regularly. Then the fun of the game is focused on actually playing the characters and gaining the levels rather than paying for a good character just before a reset. It would be a waste of time paying a gold farmer or leveller as the game would probably reset just as you take control of the character.

You could make it really challenging and reset as soon as the 'final' quest is completed by anyone, they would then "win" that round. That or be really mean and have an "Orb of resettage" that resets the world if the player who found it is killed :)

#10 Inali

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Posted 10 December 2005 - 12:19 AM

If you are paying someone to play a game then you obviously don't want to play the game, take a break. Come back when you want to game again? Also doing this outsourcing sucks, aren't there enough sweatshops, now gamers promote them...Also to the person who commented "I just want to pvp at highest level cap blah blah" I have seen so many people say this, then when the china dude gets them to 60 they never play. The only way I could justify this is if I had so much money I could burn it and then again if you have that much money I am sure there are much better things to be done then playing world of warcraft. Bottom line is, if you want to play a game you will want to lvl up, it is a such a huge part of a game.

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#11 DaveyJJ

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Posted 10 December 2005 - 03:30 PM

Personally, and with my limited time playing WoW, I think anyone who wants to spend $300-$600 real dollars to spend on a character in a game should have their heads examined. Like the folks who spend thousands buying XBox 360s because they couldn't buy one in a store.

Honestly, if anyone has $300-600 dollars they don't need, feel free to send it along to me and I'll donate it to the local foodbank or other charity here in town.

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#12 zapranoth

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Posted 10 December 2005 - 04:01 PM

IMHO, there's a fine line, and sometimes a distinction, between fun and addiction.  WoW and games like it make me wonder, at times, how much fun they really are.  People paying cash for virtual gold, to get the next bell or whistle for their characters?  That sounds more like addiction than fun, to me.    Just my two CP worth.
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#13 Dark_Archon

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Posted 10 December 2005 - 09:23 PM

Zwilnik, on December 9th 2005, 09:40 PM, said:

One solution is to do what MUDs do and simply reset the game regularly. Then the fun of the game is focused on actually playing the characters and gaining the levels rather than paying for a good character just before a reset. It would be a waste of time paying a gold farmer or leveller as the game would probably reset just as you take control of the character.

You could make it really challenging and reset as soon as the 'final' quest is completed by anyone, they would then "win" that round. That or be really mean and have an "Orb of resettage" that resets the world if the player who found it is killed :)

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People would flip out at Blizzard if they did that.
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#14 Rubel

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Posted 10 December 2005 - 10:23 PM

You know what gets on my nerves? Tells from strangers trying to get me to go to a gold-buying website, and spam arriving in my WoW mailbox. I don't like that jabbing up into my gaming experience.

Especially on a Roleplaying Server! ;) Talk about breaking the immersion!
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#15 Frost

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Posted 11 December 2005 - 12:16 AM

Zwilnik, on December 9th 2005, 08:40 PM, said:

One solution is to do what MUDs do and simply reset the game regularly.
...

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Interesting idea, but hell no. My friends are already having a hard time convincing me to play (5 months of failure thus far), and that would seal the deal on a Non vote faster than Brussels bombing Paris with those blasted sprouts. I thought resets were a good idea until I played Myth multiplayer. After spending weekends fighting my way up to being a high ranked crown for the third time and getting reset to a dagger yet again I said f[censored] it and stop playing ranked games permanently. Might be fun for people who have the game as their second life, but for casual gamers, it means every time they start getting somewhere the game gets reset. I wouldn't put up with that from a free service, nevermind a pay one.
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#16 Huntn

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Posted 11 December 2005 - 07:46 AM

Zwilnik, on December 9th 2005, 08:40 PM, said:

One solution is to do what MUDs do and simply reset the game regularly.

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That would require a complete restructuring of WoW even if you said it in jest. :)

Regarding buying gold, it's against WoW's user agreements. My understanding is that Blizzard has banned accounts involved with such activity, but the question is- how hard is it to get caught? For christmas, I know someone who purchased $1000 gold for $70 dollars to give as a gift.

If you want to come on and farm all day long, that is not illegal. We all farm. But it's when you have a team of people, farming 24 hours per day for the purpose of selling your goods for real money. Now that stinks. Number one it's one heck of a lot of competition for someone who is farming to improve their proffession and as we all know, purchasing game items gives individuals an unfair advantage.

Apparently it's pretty difficult for Blizzard to catch the cheaters without making some changes to the game, changes that would radically alter the economy of the game. Such as they could eliminate straight fund transfers between characters on different accounts. And they could set prices for items to be purchased. In other words, you can no longer give items to players on different accounts. Everything would have to be sold for within a price range. This would kill black market purchases, but how many players would be upset by that kind of change?

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#17 Sternum

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Posted 12 December 2005 - 08:19 AM

Huntn, on December 11th 2005, 07:46 AM, said:

Apparently it's pretty difficult for Blizzard to catch the cheaters without making some changes to the game, changes that would radically alter the economy of the game. Such as they could eliminate straight fund transfers between characters on different accounts. And they could set prices for items to be purchased. In other words, you can no longer give items to players on different accounts. Everything would have to be sold for within a price range. This would kill black market purchases, but how many players would be upset by that kind of change?

For one, it would radically diminish the purpose of guilds.

#18 Morrigan

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Posted 12 December 2005 - 07:51 PM

Inali, on December 10th 2005, 12:19 AM, said:

Bottom line is, if you want to play a game you will want to lvl up, it is a such a huge part of a game.
You sir, are incorrect. Shadowbane is a prime example of a game where leveling up was an obstacle to the real meat of the game. You won't find anyone who levelled more than one character past 60 who would disagree.

WoW, for those who tire of the repetitive quests or don't have time for the hours-long dungeon instances required to get good items, has a similar situation. Sure the vast majority will grind and enjoy the path to level cap, or they'll quit (like i did) ... or if they want to try high end pvp they might pay for a level 60 toon, so what? Who cares if someone had their toon leveled by a guy named Ping, if they enjoy the end result great. If they are still bored with the game, so what? Who loses? The guy who didn't waste 6 months levelling up? The guy who got paid to level up his toon? Blizzard? nope, nope, and nope.

#19 Inali

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Posted 12 December 2005 - 11:27 PM

Morrigan, on December 12th 2005, 07:51 PM, said:

You sir, are incorrect. Shadowbane is a prime example of a game where leveling up was an obstacle to the real meat of the game. You won't find anyone who levelled more than one character past 60 who would disagree.

WoW, for those who tire of the repetitive quests or don't have time for the hours-long dungeon instances required to get good items, has a similar situation. Sure the vast majority will grind and enjoy the path to level cap, or they'll quit (like i did) ... or if they want to try high end pvp they might pay for a level 60 toon, so what? Who cares if someone had their toon leveled by a guy named Ping, if they enjoy the end result great. If they are still bored with the game, so what? Who loses? The guy who didn't waste 6 months levelling up? The guy who got paid to level up his toon? Blizzard? nope, nope, and nope.

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Leveling was an obstacle of the real meat of what? It took me 1-2 days to lvl a character in shadowbane, a completely broken game. I do agree with you on shadowbane because leveling in shadowbane had no events or anything other then standing in the same spot and nuking/killing mobs for xp, you did not even have to be at your keyboard. World of warcraft is much different, it has interlined your level grind into tons of quests that let you travel across the world. Playing the quest lines from 1-the highest raid dungeons is almost like a 1 player game in itself. Instead of encouraging a higher lvl friend to Power Level you while you watch star trek, it is far easier to go it alone or with a friend and complete the quests where you learn much about the story line and lands.

If you have fun leveling in wow you will love the end game, I am sure you won't spend 6 months playing a game you do not like? Outsourcing is retarded, especially for gaming, in my opinion it is a loss to all and everything about it is irrational. Leveling is part of the game, if you can't handle leveling then don't play, that would be better then paying some asian dude 700 bucks to level a character that you will never play. If all else fails think about the person on the street that died because you had to burn 700 dollars to have a lvl 60 character.....If you level yourself you will know about the game later on and won't be completely useless also.

Also I have had 3 rank  7 cities and unfortunately still have over 10 r7 characters on shadowbane.(inactive)

#20 Becky Rose

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Posted 13 December 2005 - 01:41 AM

MMO's more than any other form of game are a hobby, and people like to spend money on their hobby.  I'm not really fussed by people who buy extra gear or a high level character - I always judge people individually.

If I had excess money to burn when I was playing MMO's I would have spent some on better gear for my characters.  I personally wouldn't worry about buying a high level character, but each to their own.