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WoW- Uber PvP Classes?


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#1 Huntn

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Posted 11 November 2005 - 02:55 PM

All though it's unlikely that I'll ever be a Battlegrounds addict, is there a consensus about the best World of Warcraft classes for player versus player conflict? I realize there is more than one way to look at it. One might be straight 1v1. Another might be in support of a party in Battlegrounds.

Is there a single clear winner?

I'm currently leveling these classes- a rogue, a druid, a hunter, a mage, a warlock, and a priest. And while I'm having great fun with all of them, I realize the PvP experience is a different environment.

I'm thinking that some classes like a mage/priest working in combination with tanks/rogues would be a deadly combination.

-Hunt'n

ps- I recently realized that PvP rank and the functionality of PvP gear obtained based on rank, depends on continued participation. If you don't participate your rank goes down and you become unable to use awarded PvP gear. Kind of like always needing a fix? :)

#2 Tetsuya

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Posted 11 November 2005 - 03:08 PM

actually, the gear you buy with PvP rank was changed so that you only need the rank to purchase it, not wear it.  

As for the best class to use in PvP - i'd say an Arms/Fury Mortal Strike warrior or a Marskman/Beastmastery ranged hunter.

both deal incredibly silly damage - enough to outright kill some classes in shot.  

PvP in WoW is starting to slide into the abyss of ever-more-uber gear, and Hunters and MS Warriors in particular are getting exponentially more powerful as the gear gets better.

Caster are getting weaker and weaker, as time goes on, as the itemization for casters falls behind that of non-caster classes.  I play a warlock, and of the caster classes, we probably have it the worst.  I have 5500 HP, and relatively good gear, and im lucky if i can last 10 seconds against a well geared warrior or hunter.

No matter what you do, dont choose a caster for your PvP focus - MMO's have a long history of caster's getting the itemization shaft in the long run.  Almost all MMO's cater to melee in the long or short run, and WoW is already falling down that hill.

#3 Rubel

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Posted 12 November 2005 - 11:25 AM

I haven't ever done any PvP, although it does sounds appealling. What's a good way to start? My main character is a 25th level Shaman, so I figure I could play an interesting counter to various classes.
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#4 BadgerHunter

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Posted 12 November 2005 - 11:48 AM

All depends on what you are and your spec and your opponent and his spec.

For instance Beast Mastery hunter can chew through cloth classes with almost no effort. A Marksman hunter will also do very good against all but mages who can exploit our need to be at a good distance. However all hunters have trouble with warriors.. and warrior have trouble dealing with paladins and rogues...

It really depends how good you are and your spec and your gear. Other than that there is no single PvP class.

#5 Tetsuya

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Posted 12 November 2005 - 01:32 PM

BadgerHunter, on November 12th 2005, 10:48 AM, said:

All depends on what you are and your spec and your opponent and his spec.

For instance Beast Mastery hunter can chew through cloth classes with almost no effort. A Marksman hunter will also do very good against all but mages who can exploit our need to be at a good distance. However all hunters have trouble with warriors.. and warrior have trouble dealing with paladins and rogues...

It really depends how good you are and your spec and your gear. Other than that there is no single PvP class.

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Warriors do NOT have a problem with rogues. An Arms/Fury MS warrior will destroy a rogue.  All it takes is one dodge and the Rogue is dead.  (Overpower ftl)

Also, a marksman hunter shouldnt have any problem with a mage - if they try to close on your deadzone, Scattershot them.  Scattershot lasts as long as Frost Nova does and is on roughly the same cooldown.  Also, if they get into your dead zone and freeze you, and start to charge a huge spell - feign death.  Itll detarget you and theyll lose the spellcast.  

Aimed Shot + Multishot, Scattershot, back off, Amed SHot + Multishot.  that should put any mage down.

#6 bookman

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Posted 12 November 2005 - 04:52 PM

Hunters seem to be pretty tough - at least they are ganking me often enough. The rogue can also be effective. I play as a druid, and am easlity owned by lower level characters, but I'm not very good at PvP.
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#7 Tetsuya

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Posted 12 November 2005 - 05:52 PM

Druids dont do a lot of damage unless they are well geared and Feral spec'ed, but a Restoration Druid is the next best thing to unkillable.  

They have 3 Heal over time abilities and the best single target heal in the game, as well as the ability to instantly heal every 2 minutes (and ive been involved in fights where a Druid has used NS multiple times, because they are so hard to kill.

At the very least, when you get Travel Form no one should ever kill you again.  They cant snare you, and you can outrun them on foot and get far enough ahead to turn into a cat and dissapear before they can mount.

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#8 Huntn

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 03:51 PM

Thanks guys for the opinions. I stand corrected on the PvP gear. I do have a Beastmastery-specced hunter in the low 50s. :)

A very large complaint I have is that it's tough (from a time perspective) to get into BGs with a full party. I'd like to do that with friends and 2-4+ hr waits suck.

-Hunt'n

#9 hambone

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 05:04 PM

i have a 60 hunter and once had a 55 warrior. i definately prefer the hunter class for PvP and everything else too.

as a hunter, i've played a fair bit of PvP in Warsong Gulch and the Arathi Basin. it is fairly rare that i ever get into a clear 1-on-1 duel with anyone in there, and usually am cast as an effective jack-of-all-trades defender, midfielder, or attacker. in open-field melee i can usually tip the scales in my teams favour by standing back and playing tactical support by slowing, freezing, multi-shoting, scatter-shotting and sicking my pet on mages.

when i do get into 1-on-1 situations, i can generally take down mages, warlocks and warriors without much hassle. if i see a rogue coming (and i usually do with my Detect Invisible) it's almost always a win for me. combat against paladins usually just ends in a draw with neither side killing the other (the exception being paladins who are too dumb to cleanse my Viper Sting mana drain shot). the two classes i have the most trouble with are druids that understand how to shape-shift effectively, and shadow priests. the later can generally melt my face right off before i've done much at all. i can't speak to a hunter/shaman duel because i play an orc.

as of level 60, i've respeced to a rather innovative 5/34/12 (BM/MM/Surv) talent build. i feel this build gives me the most flexibility and over-all DPS in PvP, while the Trueshot Aura and extended trap duration and damage makes me desirable on instance runs. i'll be totally honest that playing a BM build is a lot more fun generally, but it just isn't very practical since you arn't PvE'ing solo and since pets are only of moderate utility in instances. but hey, if you wanna be known as the dedicated Kloth Killah, go for it.

the great thing about being a hunter is that they are probably less gear dependent than many other classes to be effective. i have pretty terrible gear for a level 60, with only two pieces of the Beaststalker Set and, until a few days ago, was still using a level 50 Gryphonwing Long Bow (a lovely Ancient Bone Bow dropped for me on my first Scholomance run :) ). and yet i still seem to be able to hold my own quite effectively in the battlegrounds, often coming out on top of my faction at the end of the match. obviously, someone with a crazy number of trinkets, armor procs, or full Molten Core set is going to drop me in a 1-on-1 situation. but those guys are still pretty rare on my server.

one thing a hunter has to be is imaginative. no one technique is going to get you a win against any particular class. even against those classes that i am well practiced, contingencies of teh battlefield mean i am often forced to use my various talents and skills in different ways and combinations.

#10 Joe M.

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 12:22 AM

I PvP with a warrior wearing half a set of epic armor, epic rings, and a tier 2 epic axe. Definitely much fun to play in group PvP, but 1v1 warriors can be kited to all hell. Fortunately, most players in group pvp situations aren't very good and I get crit multiple times (causing enrage, 40% damage boost) and then run wild on their casters while paladins and druids spam me with heals and dispels. It's a blast. But again, if 1v1 is your thing warriors are a little weak (if the person you're fighting is any good, anyway).

#11 Tetsuya

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 09:14 AM

Hamstring?

your opening should be Charge - Hamstring - 'zerk Stance - Mortal Strike
no one is getting away from you then.  At best, they can snare you too, at which point you're both moving at the same speed.

If they get a little bit away from you - Intercept.

The only class that can really kite warriors at all is Hunters, and only because they can snare you from long range.

#12 Huntn

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Posted 16 November 2005 - 07:38 AM

Of these classes how would the local WoW experts prioritize the following classes for PvP: hunter, warlock, priest, mage, druid, rogue?

hambone, on November 14th 2005, 05:04 PM, said:

i have a 60 hunter and once had a 55 warrior. i definately prefer the hunter class for PvP and everything else too.

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My hunter is Beast Mastery specced and I'm having a great time with my pet. I'm a newbie when it comes to BGs and last night I was in 3 Arathi Basin fights. The groups I were in only won 1 of 3, but it was fun never the less. I see the build you mentioned is mostly marksman.

Regarding the Talent Calculator, I was surprised that you could save a link to a talent build. I assume you can do this with any Talent build?

Regarding being BM specced, it appeared that I died more than my pet. I have heard such good things about BM, that you've given me pause to think about this alternate build.

So pets are not that effective in hi-end instances?

Thanks!

Joe M., on November 15th 2005, 12:22 AM, said:

I PvP with a warrior wearing half a set of epic armor, epic rings, and a tier 2 epic axe. Definitely much fun to play in group PvP, but 1v1 warriors can be kited to all hell.

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What does kited mean?
Thanks!
-Hunt'n

#13 Tetsuya

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Posted 16 November 2005 - 09:35 AM

"kiting" referes to the process of pulling someone along behind you, like a kite, while damaging them and keeping them out range to effectively reply.  Hunters are pro's at it

#14 Huntn

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Posted 16 November 2005 - 09:44 AM

Tetsuya, on November 16th 2005, 09:35 AM, said:

"kiting" referes to the process of pulling someone along behind you, like a kite, while damaging them and keeping them out range to effectively reply.  Hunters are pro's at it

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Ranged attacks?  Aren't you facing them and retreating as you send damage their way?  As a Hunter, I've found it challenging to keep situation awareness at a level so that I'm not run down by the opposition. :)
-Hunt'n

#15 Tetsuya

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Posted 16 November 2005 - 09:49 AM

Concussive Shot makes it very easy to kite.   Hit them with Concussive Shot and run away from them.  Turn with the mouse to fire off arcane shots and other instant attacks.  Keep doing it.  

There is nothing most classes can do to prevent it, since hunters have the longest range in the game.  (41 yards)

#16 Macs Rock

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Posted 16 November 2005 - 08:30 PM

best pvp class hmmmm they all have their pros and cons so whatever fits your play style.

#17 hambone

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Posted 17 November 2005 - 01:52 AM

Huntn, on November 16th 2005, 09:38 AM, said:

So pets are not that effective in hi-end instances?

sort of depends what instances you want to run. if it is mostly just going to be 5-man, then a BM-spec can make a pet extremely useful. with a strong pet holding aggro and a freeze trap on teh ground, a hunter can pretty much knock two mobs out of a fight for 20-30 seconds while himself pumping DPS into a third mob. a stronger pet also requires less healing, which is important since most 5-man groups only have one healer with them.

if you mostly want to run the really big instances for groups of 10 or more, or intend to run the smaller 5-man instances as raids of more than 5 people just to get loot, the pet really doesn't do much other than add to your overall DPS, which is otherwise more advantageously got through MM/Surv specing your character.

as for PvP as a hunter, the situational awareness and kiting technique is not all that easy to keep up. which is exaclty why i like playing the class. ;)

#18 Sternum

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Posted 17 November 2005 - 05:56 AM

I'm always a little conservative when using my pet in an instance. Don't tell anyone, but due to some bad pathfinding and monsters with aggression issues, my pet is responsible for at least two total party kills.

#19 Huntn

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Posted 17 November 2005 - 07:17 AM

Sternum, on November 17th 2005, 05:56 AM, said:

I'm always a little conservative when using my pet in an instance. Don't tell anyone, but due to some bad pathfinding and monsters with aggression issues, my pet is responsible for at least two total party kills.

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LOL! The key is to put your pet on "neutral" when in an instance. The downside is that it will no longer defend you, unless you tell it too. But at least it won't go aggroing multiple mobs. I was in Razorfen once on a spiraling path upwards when something from above (range) attacked the hunter in our party. The dutiful pet, took off and disappeared to kill the transgressor. 15-30 seconds later he came back trailing a mob of mobs who killed the group. I'm sure you have a similar story. :)

-Hunt'n

#20 Huntn

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Posted 17 November 2005 - 07:23 AM

This sounds right to me. I like having the strong pet for when I'm soloing. It's too bad you can't change the talent load without having to pay. I've been doing Arathi Basin with my hunter for the last couple of nights and I've come to loath rogues and mages. :D
-Hunt'n

hambone, on November 17th 2005, 01:52 AM, said:

sort of depends what instances you want to run. if it is mostly just going to be 5-man, then a BM-spec can make a pet extremely useful. with a strong pet holding aggro and a freeze trap on teh ground, a hunter can pretty much knock two mobs out of a fight for 20-30 seconds while himself pumping DPS into a third mob. a stronger pet also requires less healing, which is important since most 5-man groups only have one healer with them.

if you mostly want to run the really big instances for groups of 10 or more, or intend to run the smaller 5-man instances as raids of more than 5 people just to get loot, the pet really doesn't do much other than add to your overall DPS, which is otherwise more advantageously got through MM/Surv specing your character.

as for PvP as a hunter, the situational awareness and kiting technique is not all that easy to keep up. which is exaclty why i like playing the class. ;)

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