Jump to content


The Perfect MMORPG


  • Please log in to reply
109 replies to this topic

#1 Huntn

Huntn

    Verbal Windbag

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4074 posts
  • Pro Member:Yes

Posted 04 November 2005 - 08:39 AM

This topic was inspired by a comment made on another thread.  I've played Diablo, Dungeon Siege, and Heros of Might and Magic and no RPG has grabbed me until I played WoW. I realize the list may be unrealistic for one game. And even though most of my comments are directed at WoW, I think they could apply to any MMORPG. What have I overlooked? Feel free to disagree. :)
-Hunt'n

Huntn's MMORPG Wish List:
* Huge Explorable & Dyamic World- an evolving & dynamic world, not a static one.
   - Buildable and destroyable environment- including structures.
* Dynamic Quest Chains- as much emphasis on small party quests as on large raids
   - Solable, Small Party (5-15 players) quests available at all levels.
   - Ability to solo at least 50% of time
   - Medium & Large Raid quests available at mid to upper levels.
   - Bigger is not Better for all players when it comes to Raids. Just as much emphasis on game design catering to solo and small parties at the level cap. (I don't like 40 player raids.)
   - Nice mix of open quests vs instanced quests.
   - Instances should be the exception not the rule at all levels of the game.
   - Avoids excessive grinding
   - A variety of meaningful, unique, and challenging quests for the most part avoids the kill and collect grind.
* More emphasis on exploring and less on rushing to reach the level cap.
   - I realize players decide to rush to the top but could there be game mechanisms that reward you just for exploring?
   - More ways to advance characters other than combat.
   - Maybe some large instance spaces (Guild Wars) where a party of 5 (or less) could explore just to see the wonders of the world and find good loot along the way, with no particular quest in mind? Note: I don't care for GW because all quests are done in instanced space, a personal preference.
* Epic Loot available in a variety of locations (not just the large raid locations).
*Casual Players supported.
    - An avenue for casual game play.
    - The idea of "rest" is good in WoW.
    - Is there a way casual players could compete head on with hard core players in PvP? Prol not.
    - Could there be other ways?
* Professions/Craft System that are actually valuable
   - In depth, but reasonable craft system- the ability to build structures (Tale in the Desert) and change face of virtual world.
   - I'm a WoW armorsmith, and most everything I wear is from drops. So mostly it's only mobs who somehow come into possession of epic gear??
   - WoW Engineer items like goggles and boots that can only be worn by Engineers- silly!. Goggles that act as armor are no more complicated than a helmit. It kills the profitability of Engineering IMO.
* 3rd or first person view from any angle. (all though for situational awareness I'd never choose First Person)
* Built in Voice Comms (for those that want to use it)
* PVP zones on a PVE server- when you cross the line be ready to fight...why not?
*WoW's Loot System- It's very fair, it has options, "round robin", "group loot", "roll for need", "roll for greed". Some parts of it require trust, everyone passes on blue items or Bind on Pickup items then discuss it. And for the very high value items that bosses drop, the party leader can switch to master looter so no one ninjas high value drops.

-Hunt'n

Edited by Huntn, 13 March 2007 - 11:17 AM.


#2 Morrigan

Morrigan

    Legendary

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 655 posts

Posted 04 November 2005 - 08:03 PM

Huntn, on November 4th 2005, 08:39 AM, said:

* Some mechanism so casual players are not penalized.
    - The idea of "rest" is good in WoW.
    - Is there a way casual players could compete head on with hard core players in PvP? Prol not.
    - Could there be other ways?

EVE Online has the answer. You don't level up, you train skills. If you want to train Missile Bombardment from rank 3 to rank 4 it might take 4 days. But you can just log off and come back 4 days later and it's done.

The higher the skills get, typically you get diminishing returns. So if someone starts the game and specializes heavily in one area, say, Gunnery, he might be hitting for 80% of the damage someone who has been playing 6 months longer hits for.

If your guild all starts in November, you're all of equal skill level in May. Where the pro gamer and the casual gamer differ is that the pro gamer will spend the extra time to trade, mine, hone his fighting techniques, and run missions for $$$ and faction standing with NPCs. This equates to more power for the pros in the game due to being able to afford better ships and gear, but the gap is not crippling to the casual gamer.

This is the most equitable MMOG power system I've seen, everything else simply rewards the person with the most time to dedicate to the game, making him many times more powerful than the casual gamer. That sucks for everyone who can't spend 2 months secluded in their basement trying to reach level cap in record time.

#3 Eric5h5

Eric5h5

    Minion Tormentor

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7160 posts

Posted 04 November 2005 - 08:20 PM

Morrigan, on November 4th 2005, 09:03 PM, said:

This is the most equitable MMOG power system I've seen, everything else simply rewards the person with the most time to dedicate to the game, making him many times more powerful than the casual gamer.

This is something I don't get...if you're spending all your time playing a MMORPG, why shouldn't you be rewarded for that and become more powerful than a casual gamer?  If your character gets experience when you're logged off, what's the incentive for playing?  I also don't get the obsession with removing penalties for dying.  If you suck and get yourself killed, why shouldn't you be penalized?  (Heck, I still sometimes play games like Moria, where if your character gets killed, that's IT, he's dead and loading a saved game won't get him back.)  If there are no consequences, there's no fun, or at best the fun is very shallow.  But I guess that's just me....

--Eric

#4 NeoWolf

NeoWolf

    Heroic

  • IMG Pro Users
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 364 posts

Posted 04 November 2005 - 09:35 PM

I personally like a system where dedicated players do get an edge, it just shouldn't be obscene either. WoW TRIES to facilitate casual and ... hardcore.. gamers. With varying success. You can get a pretty decent set of equipment without doing endless raids, but the very best comes from dedicated raid runs.

#5 Huntn

Huntn

    Verbal Windbag

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4074 posts
  • Pro Member:Yes

Posted 04 November 2005 - 11:15 PM

Morrigan, on November 4th 2005, 08:03 PM, said:

EVE Online has the answer. You don't level up, you train skills. If you want to train Missile Bombardment from rank 3 to rank 4 it might take 4 days. But you can just log off and come back 4 days later and it's done.

The higher the skills get, typically you get diminishing returns. So if someone starts the game and specializes heavily in one area, say, Gunnery, he might be hitting for 80% of the damage someone who has been playing 6 months longer hits for.

View Post


Sounds great! Eve is PC only but here are some screen shots. Does the entire game take place in space or can you explore planets? If so are the planets huge?

I was very fond of Planetside (PC only) for 18 months until I finally burned out. Even though you get XP for kills you train skills based on XP.  After just a day or so, you have enough points to train to say drive a tank. What this means is that in a guild, you can have brand new players playing with veterans, being part of the team, and and being effective in combat.  In contrast, WoW is incredibly level sensitive.

-Hunt'n

#6 Joe M.

Joe M.

    Fanatic

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 148 posts

Posted 05 November 2005 - 07:57 PM

Huntn, on November 4th 2005, 07:39 AM, said:

* Professions that are actually valuable
   - I'm a WoW armorsmith, and most everything I wear is from drops. So mostly it's only mobs who somehow come into possession of epic gear??
   - WoW Engineer items like goggles and boots that can only be worn by Engineers- silly!. Goggles that act as armor are no more complicated than a helmit. It kills the profitability of Engineering IMO.

* PVP zones on a PVE server- when you cross the line be ready to fight...why not?


I'd like to see a TON more armorsmith quests in the game. Dozens and dozens and dozens, literally. There's no reason an armorsmith shouldn't be able to equip him or herself if they put the time in to master their profession - just make long, interesting quests out of it. IMO they need this for every CRAFTING profession. I understand that they have a lot on their "to-do" list....but maybe someday? How I would love to have a million engineering quests available to me, even if completing a certain line made another unavailable. The 3 part deal that made me a gnomish engineer really didn't do much for me.

I think we should always have specific engineer items. Who would need anything but an engineer alt or two per guild to craft engineering items if everyone could reap the benefits from the profession? I would love it if we could craft modifications for other players armor (ala librams, enchants), available through long engineering quests.

As far as PVP zones go, I dunno. We have PvP servers, we have PvE servers. The only difference is lowbies get griefed on PvP, while PvE players have specific places to kill each other (BGs).

#7 Huntn

Huntn

    Verbal Windbag

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4074 posts
  • Pro Member:Yes

Posted 06 November 2005 - 07:37 AM

Joe M., on November 5th 2005, 07:57 PM, said:

I think we should always have specific engineer items. Who would need anything but an engineer alt or two per guild to craft engineering items if everyone could reap the benefits from the profession? I would love it if we could craft modifications for other players armor (ala librams, enchants), available through long engineering quests.

As far as PVP zones go, I dunno. We have PvP servers, we have PvE servers. The only difference is lowbies get griefed on PvP, while PvE players have specific places to kill each other (BGs).

View Post


I did not quote it but I agree there should be a ton of armorsmith quests and not all of them located in L60 instances.

As far as engineer items only for engineers, look at Blacksmiths- they can make mail and plate used by 3 classes and weapons used by just about all classes. Tailors can make items worn by anyone, all though its the mages, warlocks, and priests who benefit most, and don't forget bags. My tailor is selling lots of them. Alchemy buffs- I think they can be used by all classes. All items can be  enchanted. Now comes the poor engineer- besides some dynamite, they can sell nothing to other than another engineer who is probably making for themselves anyway. What is really galling is that items like a pair of goggles that only provide an armor benefit can't be worn by other classes? Even Rocket Boots, u press a button and they make u run fast. Not to difficult. I mean come on!! :) My point is that these restrictions appear to make engineering a distinctly unprofitable profession.

Having a PvP region on a PvE server example might be to have Silithus be PvP on an otherwise PvE server. When you cross the border, your fair game. But it's just a thought. You could get a taste of a general PvP environment without having to start a new character. I'm not completely sold on the concept.

-Hunt'n

#8 Dark uk

Dark uk

    Notorious

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 170 posts

Posted 06 November 2005 - 07:57 AM

One thing I love to see in MMORPGs is the ability to make your Char more or less Unique in apperance or skill.

If any of you have ever played morrowind I'd love an MMORPG that played with that skill system when there are no exp points, you just simply get better at what you do. E.G if you were to use you'r bow 100% of the time you'd only be getting better in your use with the bow.

I also like MMOFPS because the char is only as good as the player behind them and its not all dependant on a dice role.

Inovation, a game with fresh new ideas that just keeps getting better and updating.

#9 Morrigan

Morrigan

    Legendary

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 655 posts

Posted 07 November 2005 - 10:21 AM

Eric5h5, on November 4th 2005, 08:20 PM, said:

This is something I don't get...if you're spending all your time playing a MMORPG, why shouldn't you be rewarded for that and become more powerful than a casual gamer?  If your character gets experience when you're logged off, what's the incentive for playing?  I also don't get the obsession with removing penalties for dying.  If you suck and get yourself killed, why shouldn't you be penalized?  (Heck, I still sometimes play games like Moria, where if your character gets killed, that's IT, he's dead and loading a saved game won't get him back.)  If there are no consequences, there's no fun, or at best the fun is very shallow.  But I guess that's just me....
Did I say you should not be rewarded for putting unhealthy hours into a game? No I did not, but I do believe it is in everyone's interest to keep the hardcore and the casual gamers competitive if they're both paying $15 per month to play, even if the casual gamer isn't able to log in half as much. "Competitive" doesn't mean the casual gamer defeats the hardcore gamer in combat.

Why is it in the game publisher's interest to reward the hardcore gamer rather than the casual gamer? I don't see that it is, both of those gamers are spending the same $$. Heck, the casual gamer should actually be preferred, he logs in only a quarter as much as mr. hardcore, so he's using a lot less server resources ;)

As far as getting skill trained up while you're logged off goes, it's brilliant, really. When you're logged in you play the game to make money, improve your relationship with npc factions, pirate other players, and fight wars. You don't grind nonstop, you concentrate on playing rather than advancing to the next level of whatever. As I said in my frist post, the hardcore gamers are rewarded by earning more money, thus access to better gear and ships. There -is- a benefit to playing 12 hours per day. It just isn't an overpowering benefit when compared to a casual gamer's progress.

Regarding no death penalty... dying is painful in EVE. You lose millions in ships and gear and cargo, plus if your escape pod is targetted and killed you lose any cyber-implants you have jacked in, and if your clone isn't up to date, say goodbye to any skill points not covered by your lower quality clone.

#10 Morrigan

Morrigan

    Legendary

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 655 posts

Posted 07 November 2005 - 10:30 AM

Huntn, on November 6th 2005, 07:37 AM, said:

Having a PvP region on a PvE server example might be to have Silithus be PvP on an otherwise PvE server. When you cross the border, your fair game. But it's just a thought. You could get a taste of a general PvP environment without having to start a new character. I'm not completely sold on the concept.
I quit WoW mainly because I was a casual gamer on a pvp server. By the time I hit level 35 i was getting ganked just about every login, and usually more than once, and always by someone much higher level than myself or a group of them. I became more and more frustrated with the pvp interference in my ability to level up, quest, and become competitive. I tried rerolling on another server but I hated to throw away my months of work on my first character.

Bliz started doing server migrations to take the load off of some servers, but they didn't allow PvP toons to move to PvE or RP servers. If they had allowed that, and there is no reason not to allow it, I would likely still be subscribed. Being able to decide -when- i want to pvp is important to me as a casual gamer.

#11 Rubel

Rubel

    Legendary

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 914 posts
  • Location:Mountain View, HI

Posted 07 November 2005 - 10:39 AM

When I started, I considered going PvP just because of all the thrilling tales I'd heard, and how it seemed to be a large side of the game. Luckily, I heard enough stories about idiot gankage and also realized that I could always get in some PvP on my own terms on a PvE server.

I'd like to explore the world of PvP at some point, but for now I'm certainly in it to quest with my buddies and see the stories unfold. I'm glad I didn't go down your path, Morrigan. It was a close thing!

I remember seeing a pack of Night Elves riding on their big white kitties down the Gold Road in the Southern Barrens. I thought, wow, some crazy Alliance players looking to stir up trouble. Good thing they can't touch my unflagged self! Then, as  they charged over and stomped me into the ground, I realized that they were actually rare NPCs! damn you, Outriders! If my skills were honed to a jitter on a PvP server, I would never have been so confident.

But my point is that there's plenty of danger and excitement to be found on the PvE-RP servers I frequent (Shadow Council and Kirin Tor). It's good to be a (somewhat) casual gamer!
I left my heart in Port Montyhaul.

#12 Huntn

Huntn

    Verbal Windbag

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4074 posts
  • Pro Member:Yes

Posted 07 November 2005 - 11:35 AM

The PvP horror stories are why the majority of my toons are on a PvE server and only 2 toons on PvP servers that are not played too often... PvP definitely makes you rethink questing. Most likely it becomes questing in large numbers for self preservation. :)  My PvP toons are not high enough yet to worry about it.

-Hunt'n

#13 hambone

hambone

    Legendary

  • IMG Writers
  • 890 posts
  • Location:Toronto -- Land of the rising snow

Posted 07 November 2005 - 03:54 PM

your initial post pretty much just describes WoW with a few personal preferences thrown in. but it does build a basic vocabularly of the traditional building blocks of an MMO.

if you are interested, Richard Bartle published a book back in the mid-1990s called "Designing Virtual Worlds" that has pretty much been the bible of MMO development since then.

if you want to imagine the future, you have to think beyond the basic vocabularly you have described. the key is interaction, not only with the environment, but with other players and other players through the environment. i think it is pretty obvious what better environmental interaction entails, and would point to games like Second Life and Project Entropia for some potential. What better personal and communication interaction entails is a lot more difficult. Games like Shadowbane allow players to build their own cities and fight continental wars; could activities like these be made more accessible to the general gamer? What else might people want to do together if you give them the tools for infinite creation? The challenges are clearly as much technological and they are imaginative.

#14 Huntn

Huntn

    Verbal Windbag

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4074 posts
  • Pro Member:Yes

Posted 07 November 2005 - 05:20 PM

hambone, on November 7th 2005, 03:54 PM, said:

your initial post pretty much just describes WoW with a few personal preferences thrown in. but it does build a basic vocabularly of the traditional building blocks of an MMO.

if you are interested, Richard Bartle published a book back in the mid-1990s called "Designing Virtual Worlds" that has pretty much been the bible of MMO development since then.

View Post


Your first statement is correct. WoW if the first RPG that I have cared about.

I'm sure "Designing Virtual Worlds" discusses questing, but does it talk about the fact that the majority of MMORPG quests (at least in the ones I've seen) center on violence and killing? Same with Real Time Strategy. Violent action is the real draw. Could there be a fun RPG, MMORPG not centered on violence? This is just an observation. My intent is not to put anyone on the defensive or criticize the morals of video games.

-Hunt'n

#15 NeoWolf

NeoWolf

    Heroic

  • IMG Pro Users
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 364 posts

Posted 07 November 2005 - 05:23 PM

A Tale in the Desert comes to mind for non-violent MMORPGs.

#16 hambone

hambone

    Legendary

  • IMG Writers
  • 890 posts
  • Location:Toronto -- Land of the rising snow

Posted 07 November 2005 - 10:09 PM

Huntn, on November 7th 2005, 07:20 PM, said:

I'm sure "Designing Virtual Worlds" discusses questing, but does it talk about the fact that the majority of MMORPG quests (at least in the ones I've seen) center on violence and killing? Same with Real Time Strategy. Violent action is the real draw. Could there be a fun RPG, MMORPG not centered on violence?

View Post


yes and yes.

this sounds a little facetious, but the great things about full-length books is that they can discuss topics in depth from many angles. Bartle spends almost an entire chapter talking about what motivates gamers to game, and covers everything between simulated violence to simulated creativity. his book is also very easy to get into and read. if you are interested in this topic, you should definately give it a look. any university library should have it, or its on amazon for like $30.

as for games that actually follow this model, they tend to blur the idea of what a "game" is. As mentioned, games like Second Life or There are more about producing creative products for yourself and others than just smashing things and creatures. are these "quests"? well, what is a quest? you could say that creating something that everyone in Second Life wants to use is a "quest", especially since it will make you rich in the game. You can also use Second Life to create quests of any kind you like, sort of like a D&D Dungeon Master placing tricks and traps. my guess from your question though is that you are looking for some kind of middle-ground between the "complete quest, gain XP, level up" model and something more creative or social.

i'd say that examples of non-violent RPG games have been around for a long time. think of Monkey Island. it combined elements of RPG with non-violent solutions to problems through puzzles and dialogue. could you make a Monkey Island MMO in which, say, players replaced the NPCs, or in which Game Masters did? i think so. but you also have to keep in mind many other demands, such as the fact that gamers want to play when the want to play, and that most people will not favor regular "MMO appointments" over their real lives. or that paying someone to be a full-time gamemaster costs a lot of money. your MMO might be really cool, but it might also be a complete financial disaster. ;)

and thats the real trick isn't it? blizzard has created a fantastic amount of content that is a lot of fun to explore. in fact, they have probably created more raw territory and content than any game before it. but even for a company with such enormous resources, they have to stop somewhere.

#17 Sternum

Sternum

    Legendary

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 646 posts
  • Location:Your ribcage

Posted 10 November 2005 - 10:45 AM

I've had lots of fun on my PvP-RP server, Emerald Dream. The RP element seems to keep out some of the more obnoxious elements found on your average PvP server, so ganking isn't quite as widespread. It still happens, but I think I get ganked once a week, as opposed to every day. And since the only penalty for death in WoW is a corpse walk, it's not usually a big deal.

The benefit of PvP is edge-of-your-seat gameplay. The other day I had a quest that forced me to walk across the Barrens from Ashenvale to the Thousand Needles, which is basically the heart of enemy territory. It was a busy night and there was lots of Horde activity, so I was forced to creep from tree to tree and from rock to rock in order to avoid detection. It totally captured the feeling of being behind enemy lines, and it turned what could have been a long, tedious walk into an exciting adventure.

I don't think I'd enjoy a game without an element of "watch your back," but that's just my preference.

#18 Whaleman

Whaleman

    High Priest of Bork

  • IMG Pro Users
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5632 posts
  • Steam ID:holybork
  • Location:The Land of Bork
  • Pro Member:Yes

Posted 10 November 2005 - 11:22 AM

hambone, on November 7th 2005, 10:54 PM, said:

if you want to imagine the future, you have to think beyond the basic vocabularly you have described. the key is interaction, not only with the environment, but with other players and other players through the environment. i think it is pretty obvious what better environmental interaction entails, and would point to games like Second Life and Project Entropia for some potential. What better personal and communication interaction entails is a lot more difficult. Games like Shadowbane allow players to build their own cities and fight continental wars; could activities like these be made more accessible to the general gamer? What else might people want to do together if you give them the tools for infinite creation? The challenges are clearly as much technological and they are imaginative.

View Post


The thing about interaction and dynamics in MMOs is that they make the games less accesible for the casual player. This is the reason for WoWs, in my eyes, absolutely largest flaw; A static world. Since a casual player is supposed to know where he is when he logs on after being gone for a week, the world has to be more or less the same. Imagine an undead logging off in the safety of Brill just to find it overrun by human liberation forces when he logs on the week after... or a tauren druid trying to find a cure for the sick gazelles all over Barrens just to log on a week later to see that they were saved by somebody else. Because everybody should have the right to do everything in the game, the world has to stay completely static.

As a normal RPG player, this gets to you... badly. If you do something, you want it to stay done... not respawn in a minute or so. All of the sudden all you do loses its reason to be done, because you know it will be back shortly.

I don't think there's any good compromises between the two though. So I think WoW does it right for an MMO aimed at casual players.
You shouldn't ask yourself such worthless questions. Aim higher. Try this: why am I here? Why do I exist, and what is my purpose in this universe?

(Answers: 'Cause you are. 'Cause you do. 'Cause I got a shotgun, and you ain't got one.)

***END MESSAGE***

#19 Silver Samurai

Silver Samurai

    Legendary

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 937 posts
  • Location:Ontario

Posted 10 November 2005 - 09:12 PM

NeoWolf, on November 7th 2005, 04:23 PM, said:

A Tale in the Desert comes to mind for non-violent MMORPGs.

View Post


What about sims online? :unsure:
Mac Mini- 2.26Ghz Core 2 Duo + OSX 10.6
5GB RAM, 500GB HD + 250GB and 160GB External HDs

Rev.B-Macbook 1.83Ghz Core 2 Duo + OSX 10.6
1GB RAM. 60GB HD

2nd Gen 8GB iPod Touch + OS 3.1

#20 Huntn

Huntn

    Verbal Windbag

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4074 posts
  • Pro Member:Yes

Posted 10 November 2005 - 10:17 PM

WoW Comments- I hope I'm not being too repetitive, but for all it's goodness, top end game play in WoW is its major flaw. I find the trip to the level cap is the treat. Level 60 game play is unsatisfying IMO. Questing is WoW's forte. I realize that not everyone feels the same way I do.

I don't want to do the same high end instances over and over and I don't want to fight in Battle Grounds over and over. The main focus of striving for gear in Molten Core is to be one up for PvP.  I realize as a semi-casual player I'll never be able to compete 1v1 in Battlegrounds without a lot of group support. I found out today, that you must continue to fight to keep your rank and be able to use the pvp gear you received as a result of doing BGs. Thats another negative for me.

I'm looking forward to Outland and raising the level cap. Keep the questing for xp going! :)

Dark uk, on November 6th 2005, 07:57 AM, said:

One thing I love to see in MMORPGs is the ability to make your Char more or less Unique in apperance or skill.

If any of you have ever played morrowind I'd love an MMORPG that played with that skill system when there are no exp points, you just simply get better at what you do. E.G if you were to use you'r bow 100% of the time you'd only be getting better in your use with the bow.

I also like MMOFPS because the char is only as good as the player behind them and its not all dependant on a dice role.

View Post


I think it's overhead that limits the amount of character customization in a MMORPG.

If the Morrowind skill system was applied to a MMORPG would you have the same level-sensitive issues as you have in WoW? In WoW, you more or less need to quest with others at your xp level.

-Hunt'n