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#101 Quicksilver

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Posted 21 September 2005 - 08:14 PM

Batcat, on September 21st 2005, 07:12 PM, said:

. . . HaloPC is still a notch above Halo Mac in effects, but cannot use FSAA- it's just a waste of horsepower to try forcing it.

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Maybe so, but they look the same on the Mac and the PC.
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#102 Batcat

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Posted 22 September 2005 - 04:48 AM

Quicksilver, on September 21st 2005, 09:14 PM, said:

Maybe so, but they look the same on the Mac and the PC.
Close, but not quite there. I've seen careful comparison of screens from both, post-December patching (Advanced Shaders), and there are still subtle differences. Apple lists Halo as having version 1.4 shaders. I hope they each yet get a rendering patch in future and hit feature parity.

Askilfeasd, on September 21st 2005, 09:47 PM, said:

No, the zoom looks nicer with FSAA, I saw it on my bro's computer.

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That's one of the MRT effects IIRC.

Some day soon BC'll get a CD/DVD or two worth of screens and can cast his own eye on them. Maybe he can mention any differences he sees. (Not sure I'd have time to sort shots to highlight those sorts of things, tho).

#103 Lord Brixton

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Posted 22 September 2005 - 05:26 AM

Askilfeasd, on September 21st 2005, 06:17 PM, said:

CMD

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Thanks fella.

I tried that already though, and it didn't work. I guess something is broken somewhere and I'll have to reinstall. Which means I do need to dig that box out because it's got the CD-Key in it. yawn

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#104 ravenpen

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Posted 23 September 2005 - 10:58 AM

I might as well throw my hat into the ring on this one.

When I first started playing the Mac version of Halo after having waited what seemed like eons only one word came to mind....

Disappointed

Though it looked and sounded like the X-Box version of Halo it just didnít feel like it.  The network code was terrible and though patches helped alleviate the problem they never really fixed it.  Add to this the fact that I was playing on a 867mhz G4 Quicksilver and the whole experience just left me wanting.

Fast forward a couple years

By this time Halo 2 had come and gone.   Iíd played tons of multiplayer on my friendís X-Box and though it was a blast at first it lacked the visceral thrill the original had on the console.

By this time Iíd picked up a new dual 2.7 G5, several more patches had been released, and Iíd just gotten my broadband back up and running so I thought why not give Mac Halo another try.

Well what do ya know....

It felt just like the first time Iíd played four-player split on the X-Box only better because of all the additional opponents.  The networking seemed significantly better and with a Geforce 6800 Ultra in the G5 I finally saw all the terrain and weapons effects Iíd been missing.

Pound for pound I donít think anything touches the original Halo on a computer capable of running it well.  I donít think Halo 2 is ďunbalancedĒ, but I think that the speed of the game is drastically quicker, which pretty much destroys the original Haloís best asset.

The best thing about the original Halo was the weight of the game.  Walking took time, aiming took time, and shooting took time.  It wasnít like Quake where you could zip across the board like a skating rink and fire off rockets as fast as you could click.

With Halo 2 the ability to dual-wield removed that weight.  Firing the right combo of weapons could reduce someone to ribbons in seconds even with full health and shields.  There was no chance for protracted gun battles or retreating to a better position.  It was all over in the blink of an eye, just like every other FPS out there (aside from the WWII simulations).

For me Halo was the perfect balance of pace, firepower, vehicles, and strategy.  Halo 2 tried to ramp that up and in the process destroyed it.  Sometimes you just have to let things be.
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#105 The iMac Man

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Posted 23 September 2005 - 11:50 AM

ravenpen, on September 23rd 2005, 11:58 AM, said:

For me Halo was the perfect balance of pace, firepower, vehicles, and strategy.

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But, you forgot about LEVEL DESIGN!

Then again, I guess no one cares about that kind of thing anymore.


I don't care how good the game looks, how balanced it is, or anything like that if the levels consist of things like, long jagged hallways followed by a round room followed by a long jagged hallway with a quicksave, followed by a round room, followed by a long jagged hallway with a quicksave, followed by a... well, you get my point.  By this time, I've quit the game and started banging my head against the wall for some real fun.

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#106 ravenpen

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Posted 23 September 2005 - 12:29 PM

The iMac Man, on September 23rd 2005, 05:50 PM, said:

But, you forgot about LEVEL DESIGN!

Then again, I guess no one cares about that kind of thing anymore.
I don't care how good the game looks, how balanced it is, or anything like that if the levels consist of things like, long jagged hallways followed by a round room followed by a long jagged hallway with a quicksave, followed by a round room, followed by a long jagged hallway with a quicksave, followed by a... well, you get my point.† By this time, I've quit the game and started banging my head against the wall for some real fun.

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So are you saying you liked the maps in Halo or disliked them?

As far as level design goes I thought the multiplayer maps in Halo were pretty good.

I still never get tired of CTF on Blood Gulch.  It's such a dirt simple map, but I love it.  

I thought some of the level innovations in Halo 2 were cool, but once again I thought they overdid things and added complications where none were needed.

Admittedly, the single player campaign in the original did have a lot of repetitive interiors.
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#107 Quicksilver

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Posted 23 September 2005 - 01:12 PM

Yes, but the repetitive interiors made sense, based on what you were doing (not that I wouldn't have liked to see more variety)!
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#108 Eric5h5

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Posted 23 September 2005 - 01:22 PM

ravenpen, on September 23rd 2005, 01:29 PM, said:

Admittedly, the single player campaign in the original did have a lot of repetitive interiors.

I turned that from a bug into a feature.  See, here you've got this insanely big manufactured space thing, so naturally the engineers were not going to hand-design every little hallway.  They're going to use templates, right?  When you're building miles and miles of tunnels and things, you're just going to make a couple of standard hallways and rooms, and duplicate them over and over and just link 'em all together.  Sort of like trailer parks in space, or something.

See?  It makes perfect sense in context.  They MEANT to do it that way.

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#109 ravenpen

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Posted 23 September 2005 - 03:20 PM

Quicksilver & Eric5h5,

I see your point and agree that the levels made sense within the context of the story.

I was more pointing out the level repetitiveness as a common complaint because of iMac Man's comment:

Quote

I don't care how good the game looks, how balanced it is, or anything like that if the levels consist of things like, long jagged hallways followed by a round room followed by a long jagged hallway with a quicksave, followed by a round room, followed by a long jagged hallway with a quicksave, followed by a... well, you get my point.

Personally I think that the hallways realistically would've been the same throughout.

I think the only thing they could've done differently is to add some marks or scarring to the corridors to differentiate them from one another.  Maybe a little more diversity with the textures.  

All in all though I think their decision served the story and that's what really matters in single player.
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#110 Eric5h5

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Posted 23 September 2005 - 08:43 PM

Askilfeasd, on September 23rd 2005, 03:02 PM, said:

No, didn't you read the reason they did the repetive levels?
When Microsoft bought out Bungie, they wanted it in 6 months for their Xbox release, they had no time to do all the levels they planned, so they cut and pasted a good deal of the remaining levels.

Yes yes yes, I know the real-world reason why the levels are repetitive.  Instead of being annoyed by it (which is a perfectly legitimate reaction though), I made up a semi-plausible in-game reason for it, and was a little less annoyed...what can I say....

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#111 Eric5h5

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Posted 23 September 2005 - 11:26 PM

Askilfeasd, on September 23rd 2005, 09:59 PM, said:

I would be less annoyed, if I had a decent video card to run shaders/shadows/AA/ all that other good stuff, but no, I am stuck with a Radeon 7000, which sucks so much ass, it is not even funny, so I have a good reason to whine! ;)

No you don't.  Get a better Mac.  No money you say?  Get a job, then get a better Mac.  Simple!  And no whining!  :)

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#112 Batcat

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Posted 24 September 2005 - 01:00 AM

Askilfeasd, on September 23rd 2005, 09:59 PM, said:

I would be less annoyed, if I had a decent video card to run shaders/shadows/AA/ all that other good stuff, but no, I am stuck with a Radeon 7000, which sucks so much ass, it is not even funny, so I have a good reason to whine! ;)

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Good graphics cards are the price of good graphics. Kind of pointless to mark Halo's graphics down because not all the eye candy is available on bottom-line equipment; it's just... whiny. ;)

(Wait, no... wail and lament your lot in life, and the cruel fate that saw not the Graphics Fairy sprinkling the magic pixie dust of free great graphics on your 7000. Oh, cruel fate! Woe is you!

Yeah, that's the ticket! :crazy:  :) )

Myself, I recognize the reuse of assets, but think Bungie did a great job of making it all work within the allotted timeframe- maps and environments may be reused, but changing day for night, enemies, stealth for assault, side trips and adding atmospheric elements & other circumstances all help. It hangs together, and that's good enough for me.

#113 Batcat

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Posted 24 September 2005 - 02:01 PM

There're only a few rooms left in AotCT after the third bridge. I've played that level more than any other, but with time at a premium these last months I usually jack the Shee and skip ahead; however there's good play and great music/ atmosphere left in the long route.

Anyway there are a number of alternate routes, e.g. you can jump from bridge to central tower spine- and alternate techniques, like killing everything in sight from the bridge before going on. I love needling Elite pilots from the bridge... Halo 1 is more open in its gameplay than 2.

#114 Batcat

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Posted 25 September 2005 - 11:08 AM

Askilfeasd, on September 25th 2005, 07:35 AM, said:

It really depends, I always use the needler/pistol whenever possible, but needler/plasma pistol OWNS the elites, you stun them, then you empty the needler clip into him.

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I seldom need to. 7 needles will kill even on Legendary; that's why it's 'the Elite killer.'

And I just :wub: sending 1-2 needles across parallel bridge spans at Grunties, watching them lazily track and hearing 'Ouch! Ow! Stop shooting me!' :)

#115 Quicksilver

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Posted 25 September 2005 - 11:22 AM

Batcat, on September 25th 2005, 05:08 PM, said:

I seldom need to. 7 needles will kill even on Legendary; that's why it's 'the Elite killer.'

And just :wub: sending 1-2 needles across a bridge at Grunties, watching them lazily track and hearing 'Ouch! Ow! Stop shooting me!'

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I prefer hearing the "hot!! hot-hot-hot-hot-hot-haaaaaaa!" if you wing 'em with the plasma rifle!   :D
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#116 the Battle Cat

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Posted 25 September 2005 - 02:24 PM

Some of my most fond memories of Halo was torturing Grunts with different forms of pain.

::wipes tear from eye::

Almost makes me wish I had a real one here to tie up in the basement.  One kept handy so I can get up on a sleepless night, trudge down the stairs with a pair of pliers and a staple gun, and wile away an hour with until I get sleepy.
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#117 The Mail Man

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Posted 25 September 2005 - 03:41 PM

the Battle Cat, on September 25th 2005, 04:24 PM, said:

Some of my most fond memories of Halo was torturing Grunts with different forms of pain.

::wipes tear from eye::

Almost makes me wish I had a real one here to tie up in the basement.  One kept handy so I can get up on a sleepless night, trudge down the stairs with a pair of pliers and a staple gun, and wile away an hour with until I get sleepy.

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Without any spoilers man if you did that to a grunt you would feel ashamed of yourself afterwards. Halo 2 gives you a whole new perspective on the Halo universe. But if your into that kind of thing I have a cat of nine tails and a iron bear trap you could barrow  :D
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#118 the Battle Cat

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Posted 25 September 2005 - 07:10 PM

The Mail Man, on September 25th 2005, 01:41 PM, said:

Without any spoilers man if you did that to a grunt you would feel ashamed of yourself afterwards. Halo 2 gives you a whole new perspective on the Halo universe. But if your into that kind of thing I have a cat of nine tails and a iron bear trap you could barrow  :D

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Yeah, even though I never played 2, I felt really dirty like I had soiled my soul pants in the Halo 1 level where I quietly slithered through a room filled with sleeping grunts, bludgeoning their brains onto the walls and floor.  I really did feel like a skank, but I did it again the next time I played through the game anyway.  Some things just need doing.

Bear trap eh?  Hey!  Lets see what it would do to a dog!
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#119 Lemon Lime

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Posted 25 September 2005 - 07:48 PM

Forget about it man i mean its not like im trying to crush your dreams or something but havoc physics are probably never gona come to mac which means no halo 2 for mac. but about the halo 2 figures leaning against the ipod dock, have no shame man ;)