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#21 placy

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Posted 28 July 2005 - 03:18 PM

I ended up picking up this mouse recently as an alternative to the Logitech MX1000
(and for about 1/3 the price):

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16826202002

or

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16826202001
for those that like red

It seemed to get pretty good reviews at the couple of sites I looked at.

#22 Dark_Archon

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Posted 28 July 2005 - 07:42 PM

placy, on July 28th 2005, 05:18 PM, said:

I ended up picking up this mouse recently as an alternative to the Logitech MX1000
(and for about 1/3 the price):

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16826202002

or

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16826202001
for those that like red

It seemed to get pretty good reviews at the couple of sites I looked at.

View Post


To bad it lacks a cordless model... A cord isn't bad for a keyboard, but I find that my corded Kensington Studio mouse that I got on sale at Amazon gets caught on everything, but then again, I don't exactly have the neatest desk. Whenever I don't need the second button, I find myself using my Apple BT mouse, but the lack of scroll wheel is really annoying.
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#23 placy

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Posted 28 July 2005 - 10:28 PM

Dark_Archon, on July 29th 2005, 01:42 AM, said:

To bad it lacks a cordless model... A cord isn't bad for a keyboard, but I find that my corded Kensington Studio mouse that I got on sale at Amazon gets caught on everything, but then again, I don't exactly have the neatest desk. Whenever I don't need the second button, I find myself using my Apple BT mouse, but the lack of scroll wheel is really annoying.

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Yeah, that's one downside but then most of those "wireless" mice seem to have
lots of wired parts to hook up to the computer for the receiver/chargers, AC
adaptor, and the USB connector on the computer.  So you still need some
room on your desk for that.

#24 Batcat

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Posted 29 July 2005 - 04:01 AM

Newegg currently has the MX518 for $40 plus $5 Fedex.

#25 EyceNine

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Posted 29 July 2005 - 06:17 AM

I have a Razer Diamondback and an eXactMat. No competition not even the mx1000.

Ugly as hell though :/

http://www.razerzone.com/

#26 Batcat

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Posted 29 July 2005 - 09:33 AM

EyceNine, on July 29th 2005, 07:17 AM, said:

I have a Razer Diamondback and an eXactMat. No competition not even the mx1000.

Ugly as hell though :/

http://www.razerzone.com/

View Post

Quote

Rodent Wars
Once upon a time, a mouse was just a mouse. In the past few years, choices in pointing devices have exploded. While a host of generic mice exists, specialty mice have been the purview of smaller companies, such as Razer with its Razer Diamondback gaming mouse. Logitech does sell a wide array of mice, but their computer rodents have mostly varied in ergonomics and features.
...
A Tour of the MX518

It's apparent that Logitech checked out the Razer Diamondback when they developed the MX518. Like the Diamondback, the MX518 offers configurable resolutions and custom gaming support. Alas, the MX518 doesn't have a cool name. Unlike the Razer mouse, the MX518's ability to change resolutions on the fly is built into the hardwareŚno custom drivers needed.
...
Final Thoughts: Do I Buy One?

The MX518's list price is conveniently $10 less than the Razer Diamondback. The two competitors differ enough in appearance that it almost becomes a matter of taste. The MX518 will likely be found for under the $49.95 list price at some online sites, and that's not a hefty price to pay for this much control.
http://www.extremete...,1776396,00.asp

#27 Greg Grant

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Posted 30 July 2005 - 02:38 PM

EyceNine, on July 29th 2005, 04:17 AM, said:

I have a Razer Diamondback and an eXactMat. No competition not even the mx1000.

For all the supposed hype, the Razor mice just always feel horrid to me. Also the hype behind the MX1000 is its able to track on more variety of surfaces because the lighting of laser is more controlled than LED, thus you don't need the mouse pads. Plus its wireless, using a full 27 MHz band capable of sending 125 updates per second, the max USB allows. The only real disadvantage is the CPI being 800 instead of 1600 but defaults in most Mice are far below 500. CPI is more or less these days throw around to gamers as bigger = better as the the CMOS sensor and Laser combo is more accurate, it means you can use a higher CPI and maintain precision than say, the MX510 or Diamondback

I'd say all that equals rather stiff competition. I'm not saying the Diamondback is bad, in fact its quite good, its just far from without competition.
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#28 Civic

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Posted 30 July 2005 - 04:38 PM

Take a look at www.razerpro.com and read through the site. No further comments necessary to recommend it.

It has just been announced on the Macworld '05 in Boston and it's a dream of a mouse, especially for gamers. I can't wait to order it, together with the mousepad.

#29 the Battle Cat

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Posted 30 July 2005 - 06:25 PM

Their web site says they don't have specific Mac drivers.  They say you need to download third party drivers from USB Overdrive.  It might be a great product but to me that is a warning flag.  I think I'll keep looking.
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#30 Civic

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Posted 30 July 2005 - 06:37 PM

They do, they additionally announced a special Mac version of their award-winning PC ones for the first time. It'll be a System Preferences module and should be available around the time the mouse hits the shelves. They were very sorry that they couldn't show it at the Macworld yet, as far as I read about it. :)

#31 Dark_Archon

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Posted 30 July 2005 - 08:42 PM

Civic, on July 30th 2005, 06:38 PM, said:

Take a look at www.razerpro.com and read through the site. No further comments necessary to recommend it.

It has just been announced on the Macworld '05 in Boston and it's a dream of a mouse, especially for gamers. I can't wait to order it, together with the mousepad.

View Post


I can see how the gold plated USB connector is necessary...

Anyways, I just picked up a MX1000 on sale for $54.99. The battery is charging now, but I can't wait to try it out.

Update: Wow, this mouse is great. It feels really good and solid in my hand, and it's the perfect weight. I just wish there was software like the kensington mouseworks software for it. I liked how you could program the mouse to open a new window when you clicked both the left and right buttons at the same time.
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#32 Greg Grant

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Posted 30 July 2005 - 09:02 PM

Gold plating rarely makes a difference, in the audio world its for the retarded. I'd assume the same for USB as well.

Civic, you're not on Razer's payroll are you?
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#33 Shade

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Posted 30 July 2005 - 09:18 PM

Greg Gant, on July 30th 2005, 10:02 PM, said:

Civic, you're not on Razer's payroll are you?

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He's just like that.  ;)
Honor but above all, Loyalty.

#34 Civic

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Posted 30 July 2005 - 09:46 PM

I didn't mention the gold-plated USB connector... that's what I could care the least about on a mouse. It's everything else that the mouse offers, including the design. Also, the excellent mousepad which is like the dot of an "i" together with the Razer Pro.

I simply am a fan of the Razer products, they're not used by most of the most successful gamers out there without reason. I had Logitech, I had Kensington and I even had Microsoft mice... the Razer just made them all seem lame and like simple consumer mice when I first tried the Diamondback, in my opinion they're not optimized for gaming at all. Especially the Logitech MX510/518 ones are like bricks in the hand. I prefer to move my mouse with the fingertips for better performance, speed and control. The Razer mice are the only ones that are good for that, honestly. :)

I'm not on Razer's payroll, lol. I wish i would be, though. :lol: I simply like to give credit to products that are very good in my opinion. Or discredit to products that I think suck.

#35 Batcat

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Posted 30 July 2005 - 10:42 PM

It's not just DPI. The newer gaming mice like the 510, 518 and I presume the Razer read a bigger ground patch (when the 510 came out, it was mentioned that while still 800 DPI, it went from 4.7 to 5.8 MPixels, the data path to 16-bit & high accelerations were still good to go (something older optical mice could choke on)- up to 15Gs with the 518.

Different folks have different hands, and what's comfortable for one feels poor to another. I like smaller mice, but there's less space for buttons, and I've grown to like on-mouse control for things like weapon switching and melee attacks. I like the 510/ 518 shape better now than 3/04 when I got my 510; it's grown on me.

After some decades of audio work/play, I've come to appreciate the corrosion inhibition of gold... connectors do gunk up over time and are a pain to clean (young whippersnappers like Greg notwithstanding). That's less of a consideration with mice, of course. (Call me retarded, and I'll tell you why the Voodoo 5 does not act like a 32MB videocard... Greg. :shifty:)

For $40 plus S&H, the 518 can't be beat if your hand likes the shape. No 'advanced gaming software' for Mac, but with hardware DPI switching and USB Overdrive, that shouldn't be a deal-breaker.

#36 Greg Grant

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Posted 30 July 2005 - 11:52 PM

Batcat, on July 30th 2005, 08:42 PM, said:

After some decades of audio work/play, I've come to appreciate the corrosion inhibition of gold... connectors do gunk up over time and are a pain to clean (young whippersnappers like Greg notwithstanding). That's less of a consideration with mice, of course. (Call me retarded, and I'll tell you why the Voodoo 5 does not act like a 32MB videocard... Greg. :shifty:)

The Voodoo 5 comment baffles me. I probably at some point insulted the Voodoo 5 for splicing the VRAM for the separate CPUs I guess.

I stand by my gold plated comment, its more used to wow than serve any real use. "OMG MY $99 COAX MONSTER CABLE HAS GOLD PLATED. IT MUST SOUND BETTAR JUST LIKE MY SHIELDED OPTICAL CABLE EVEN THOUGH EACH CABLE IS USED WITH DIGITAL. IT MAKES PACKETS HAPPIER"  Its a long withstanding rant of mine.

Terminals gold plated can be of use as they're not easily replaced but the necessity of Gold simply to avoid corrosion exceeds the life span of most cables and the power transfer gains between a gold plated cable to a gold plated terminal in consumer to professional sound are so negligible that its just silly. Generally gold plated cables are reserved for consumer audio. At least with audio you can argue you might have a set of speakers in 30 years or mixing console but a mouse? Very silly, I'm sure we both agree on that.
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#37 Batcat

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Posted 31 July 2005 - 02:42 AM

Greg Gant, on July 31st 2005, 12:52 AM, said:

The Voodoo 5 comment baffles me. I probably at some point insulted the Voodoo 5 for splicing the VRAM for the separate CPUs I guess.

I stand by my gold plated comment, its more used to wow than serve any real use. "OMG MY $99 COAX MONSTER CABLE HAS GOLD PLATED. IT MUST SOUND BETTAR JUST LIKE MY SHIELDED OPTICAL CABLE EVEN THOUGH EACH CABLE IS USED WITH DIGITAL. IT MAKES PACKETS HAPPIER"á Its a long withstanding rant of mine.

Terminals gold plated can be of use as they're not easily replaced but the necessity of Gold simply to avoid corrosion exceeds the life span of most cables and the power transfer gains between a gold plated cable to a gold plated terminal in consumer to professional sound are so negligible that its just silly. Generally gold plated cables are reserved for consumer audio. At least with audio you can argue you might have a set of speakers in 30 years or mixing console but a mouse? Very silly, I'm sure we both agree on that.

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I was thinking more of amps than cables; I'm currently dealing with some serviceable amps with badly-corroded in/outs that make poor contact. High-end publications debated the merits of gold connects on cabling for a long time back into the '70s, but I'm not big on the sonic improvement virtues. Maybe a bit, but in practice overshadowed by other things.

Yeah, back aways in another forum you made the technically incorrect argument that the 64MB V5 5500 acts like a 32MB card. That's wrong, but I've never had the opportunity to correct the fallacy. And yes, mice just don't have the lifespan to merit the cost; maybe it avoids transient miscontact in high-tolerance situations, but that's about it.

#38 Batcat

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Posted 31 July 2005 - 11:10 PM

May as well just settle it while I'm here, and sorry for any OTness.

The V5 5500 acts like neither a 32MB nor a 64MB videocard; it's more like 40-48, according to 3Dfx. It depends on the res/color depth, as it's a 2-chip card, each with a dedicated 32MB memory bank. One chip is Master, the other a slave; the master chip's memory contains framebuffer data and the rest contains texture info. The slave chip's RAM does not duplicate the framebuffer data; it's all available for textures... so the higher the res/color depth, the more RAM the framebuffer needs, the less available for texture storage; hence the 40-48 figure quoted, at the resolutions typical of Y2000.

When I ran one vs. a GF3 Ti200 in the Aquanox PC demo of late '01, I was gratified to see 3Dfx had finally done it- altho the GF3's shaders could provide much more detail, Aquanox, running in GLide 3, showed every bit as much color depth, saturation etc. as the NV card. (And of course its FSAA blew NV's away)... They got it all right with that one; too bad they'd lagged in other areas like T&L and couldn't catch up enough, fast enough.

Yes, I'd rather have optical TOSlink to gold-plated coax anyday.

So... how 'bout them mice? :)

#39 Hippieman

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Posted 01 August 2005 - 09:17 AM

Call me a heretic, but I love my Microsoft Intelli Mouse.  I use it at the office for Photoshop and game design.  It is so comfortable in my hand.  Just enough buttons, and a good clicky scrollwheel.  

I also used one at home to kick ass in Diablo 2, UT, and Quake 3.  Sadly after years of use, that one broke and I got a Logitech Mouse/Keyboard combo, and now I kick ass with my Logitech MX Something in games like Doom 3, Battlefield 2, World of Warcraft (I use it on mac and PC with a KVM).
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#40 Abecedaria

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Posted 01 August 2005 - 04:58 PM

Batcat, on July 30th 2005, 09:42 PM, said:

It's not just DPI. The newer gaming mice like the 510, 518 and I presume the Razer read a bigger ground patch (when the 510 came out, it was mentioned that while still 800 DPI, it went from 4.7 to 5.8 MPixels, the data path to 16-bit & high accelerations were still good to go (something older optical mice could choke on)- up to 15Gs with the 518.

Different folks have different hands, and what's comfortable for one feels poor to another. I like smaller mice, but there's less space for buttons, and I've grown to like on-mouse control for things like weapon switching and melee attacks. I like the 510/ 518 shape better now than 3/04 when I got my 510; it's grown on me.

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I'm a Logitech MX 300/310 man, myself. To me it's just the right combination of precision, size, buttons, feel, and looks. I've never had it mistrack in a 3D shooter, something my Kensington did all the time. The buttons have never gone south on it as the Kensington did.  The rubberized grip gives you just the right feel without all of the uncomfortable curves of the Logitech MX 5XX series.

Overall, a very solid, reliable mouse without a gazillion buttons to accidently push. Oh, and it's cheap, too.

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