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Geneforge III


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#21 George the Flea

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Posted 06 July 2005 - 12:29 AM

Eric5h5, on July 3rd 2005, 07:51 PM, said:

Yeah, me too.  Especially since it's very unlikely I'll ever play Avernum 1-3 (inferior remakes of Exile 1-3 that they are ;) ), so I have to question a bit whether I'll even want Avernum 4.

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I'll definitely be downloading the Avernum 4 demo as soon as it comes out, even if I wasn't too excited that Vogel wasn't creating a new world.  Assuming that he uses an expanded version of the Geneforge engine (which he'd be a fool not to; the Avernum engine is way past its poll date), added to his proven ability to spin out great plots, it may well be a pretty spectacular game (in a gameplay-rocks-graphics-and-sound-not-so-much type of way, of course).

And surely after Avernum 4 he'll move on to new and even better things.  If the next game is Geneforge 4 or something I'll be way disappointed.  I think the only sequel that I would be alright with him making would be Nethergate 2, but only because I loved Nethergate to pieces.
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#22 almondblight

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Posted 06 July 2005 - 05:35 AM

George the Flea, on July 5th 2005, 11:29 PM, said:

And surely after Avernum 4 he'll move on to new and even better things.  If the next game is Geneforge 4 or something I'll be way disappointed.

http://rpgvault.ign....9/629843p2.html

"One problem I had with Geneforge 3, in the end, was that the plotline had a lot of similarities to the first two games. It was very much a distinct game, with its own feel, but parts of it were overly familiar. Geneforge 4 will have a very different feel. "

Perhaps he means eventually, but it doesn't seem that way.

#23 Eric5h5

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Posted 06 July 2005 - 07:25 AM

almondblight, on July 6th 2005, 06:35 AM, said:


Nice link...I hadn't read that, and Inside Mac Games gets a mention.  :)  OK, he gets 4 games in each series.  But no more.  The small, elite cadre of old-school RPG fans that he's catering to demands it.  ;)  (I wouldn't expect a Nethergate 2, as the first one apparently didn't sell so well.)

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#24 George the Flea

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Posted 07 July 2005 - 12:27 AM

Damn.  Looks like Geneforge 4 is the next one on the horizon.  Ah well.  I suppose creating the kind of complex worlds and plots that Vogel does can't happen easily.  :mellow:

Thanks for the article link!  That was a good one.

I'm not expecting Nethergate to be resuscitated, either (and it's probably for the best, really).  I'll bet if Nethergate had cost the same as Exile and been a download game it would have done better, but that was back in the day when 56k was pretty hot stuff, so the decision to ship on CD is understandable.  It's too bad, really; it's a pretty sweet RPG (I loved the fact that you could play the story twice, but from different sides).

That's way cool that he mentioned IMG.  Too bad it was because we're one of the only places to have reviewed Geneforge 3, though.
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#25 Sylvan

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Posted 08 July 2005 - 11:52 AM

Arg, you guys suck.  Thanks to all your talking, I downloaded Geneforge 3 and now I'm hooked!  There goes my summer... :)

Oh, and for the record, I think the graphics are totally sufficient, and a huge step up from the Exile games (I never played Geneforge 1 or 2 so I don't have them as a basis for comparison).

#26 Siriusfox

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Posted 08 July 2005 - 04:25 PM

George the Flea said:

Damn.  Looks like Geneforge 4 is the next one on the horizon.  Ah well.  I suppose creating the kind of complex worlds and plots that Vogel does can't happen easily.  :mellow:
This makes me mad like you said, beacause it needs a new start. But it makes me happy, because about five minutes ago I finished the game. And I can't wait to continue the War.
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#27 George the Flea

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Posted 08 July 2005 - 07:34 PM

joefox, on July 8th 2005, 02:25 PM, said:

This makes me mad like you said, beacause it needs a new start. But it makes me happy, because about five minutes ago I finished the game. And I can't wait to continue the War.

Wow, that was quick.  I hope you took time off to sleep.  :D
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#28 Siriusfox

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Posted 08 July 2005 - 11:16 PM

I was amazed, I only played about 6 hours a day for almost two weeks. It was much shorter than I expected.
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#29 Eric5h5

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Posted 09 July 2005 - 12:29 AM

joefox, on July 9th 2005, 12:16 AM, said:

I was amazed, I only played about 6 hours a day for almost two weeks. It was much shorter than I expected.

So that's, what, 60 hours or so?  And you expected it to be longer?  ;)  Well, if that's too short, then start over, take a different path, see some other endings....

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#30 rogue

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 05:05 PM

George the Flea, on June 18th 2005, 09:08 PM, said:

Do people honestly believe this?  It absolutely blows my mind that people would expect games to be "with" the current technology when they are developed by shareware companies with no budget.


Gameplay is king. Great graphics can be nice to look at, but they do not make up for weak gameplay or make a game any more "fun". Great gameplay, on the other hand, can make up for dull graphics, and is my prime consideration when choosing a game.

That said, Spiderweb's games all have great gameplay. The graphics are nothing to sing about, but they get the job done.

It's a shame that there are a lot of people who can't see this, but that can't be helped.
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#31 Rubel

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 11:32 PM

joefox, on July 8th 2005, 03:25 PM, said:

And I can't wait to continue the War.

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This time, it'll be from an entirely different perspective. Makes me think a little of Babylon 5.
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#32 XxtraLarGe

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Posted 14 July 2005 - 07:54 AM

George the Flea, on June 18th 2005, 09:08 PM, said:

I think my attitude towards Geneforge III is pretty clear, but here is the first user review:
Do people honestly believe this?  It absolutely blows my mind that people would expect games to be "with" the current technology when they are developed by shareware companies with no budget.  Do people not understand that the graphics alone for the original Baldur's Gate (hardly the current technology now) required more than 20 people? (ref)  And if you really want current technology, Neverwinter Nights took over 40 people (ref), and this is for graphics alone.  Meaning there were a whole heck of a lot more who were working on programming, design, sound, and the list goes on.  And what about World of Warcraft, which Ben appears to like so much?  A quick count on my part gives me around 70 people working on the art (including cinematics).  (ref)

So again, I'm just wondering how on earth Spiderweb is supposed to "regroup."  Because they haven't really grouped in the first place.  Geneforge III's list of artists: head guy Jeff Vogel, one person listed as working on art in general, and one person listed as working on character rendering.  Which puts them 17+ people away from being able to achieve 1998's current technology, 37+ away from 2002's current technology, and 67 or so away from 2005's current technology.

Okay, I'll stop ranting.  Thing is, Geneforge III captured the imagination of this gamer, and I honestly don't understand how its graphics, which are cohesive and do a good job of creating a colorful and interesting game world, can blind people so thoroughly to its amazingly positive aspects.

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The graphics aren't terrible, but it definitely doesn't seem like a $25 game. I'd pay maybe $10-$15 max for a game of this quality. This isn't a knock on Spiderweb, I happen to think that shareware is overpriced in general.

#33 Eric5h5

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Posted 14 July 2005 - 11:09 AM

XxtraLarGe, on July 14th 2005, 08:54 AM, said:

The graphics aren't terrible, but it definitely doesn't seem like a $25 game. I'd pay maybe $10-$15 max for a game of this quality. This isn't a knock on Spiderweb, I happen to think that shareware is overpriced in general.

Haven't actually bought Geneforge 3 yet, but Geneforge 1 and 2 kept me more entertained, for longer, than some commercial games costing $50.  I'll have no problems paying $25 when I get around to it. Actually I'm glad it's not $10...as weird as that might sound, ten bucks seems like it would cheapen the game somehow.  Mind you, I have played shareware games where I never bought the full version, because $20 or so was too much given the limited appeal of the game, though I would have paid $10ish.  But Geneforge has depth....

--Eric

#34 George the Flea

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Posted 14 July 2005 - 04:27 PM

XxtraLarGe, on July 14th 2005, 05:54 AM, said:

The graphics aren't terrible, but it definitely doesn't seem like a $25 game. I'd pay maybe $10-$15 max for a game of this quality. This isn't a knock on Spiderweb, I happen to think that shareware is overpriced in general.

I think it's really hard for shareware authors to price their games, particularly for one's like Vogel who are making a living off of shareware.  On the one hand, there's the question if people will buy it for such and such a price.  On the other, the need for food and shelter.  A difficult balancing act.

I agree that many shareware games are overpriced, though.  There have definitely been a few titles that I played the demo, checked the price, and decided it was good but not that good.

Personally, though, $20-$25 is the sweet spot (for commercial as well as shareware, actually; I'm a sucker for old commercial games in the bargain bin); if I really like a game (and it has a lot of entertainment potential) I'm completely willing to pay $20 or a little more.  Particularly for really good role-playing games, $20 buys many, many hours of entertainment.  For arcade games (like the amazingly fun Kill Monty), though, $10 or thereabouts is much more reasonable.  (Although honestly, for the amount of fun I've gotten out of it, $13 was an absolute steal for Kill Monty.)

I think in the end what this is is capitalism at work.  Enough people are willing to pay $25, so the price stays at $25.  :)
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#35 Marble

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Posted 07 August 2005 - 07:01 PM

I hadn't had a satisfying game experience in at least three years until I finally got around to playing Geneforge.  I'd registered it a year before that but never really broke it open, but boy was I glad when I finally did!  Incredible depth and imagination from the creator of my favorite games, my childhood inspiration, the Exile Trilogy—what could be better?

I'm hoping that I will get time to play the sequel during the coming school year (it's easy to feel too busy).

I loved Nethergate, too.  Another rewarding (and best of all: different!) gameplay experience.  As a writer, I can only marvel at how Vogel has so completely nailed storyline in an alternative media.  Computer games could have been the revolution that film was, and this is what it would have been like.  Baldur's Gate II, NWN . . . they're fluff, they're Hollywood.  Geneforge, now, that is storytelling.