How will Intel Macs affect mac gaming? Options

[MajorMatt]

I'm not talking about performance. Will recents buyers of iMac G5, towers or laptops be left out of the gaming scene in only two years?

[richmlow]

According to Steve Jobs and Phil Schiller (of Apple), Mac OS X for Intel will run on future Macs, but not on generic clones. It was also indicated that Apple would not prevent Windows from being installed on the future Intel Macs.

What does this mean for Macintosh gaming?!....Will the current Macintosh game porters/publishers go out of business?! What is the motivation for people to buy the Mac version of a game, when they could easily get the Windows version (cheaper, due to the scale of market share; more to choose from, etc....)?!

I have a feeling that Apple did what it had to do, to insure long-term survival of the company...but that its decision is going to put alot of Mac game companies on very unstable ground.

What does everybody else think?


richmlow

[Siriusfox]

I have a feeling that Apple did what it had to do, to insure long-term survival of the company

?µ¥¥ $ß®†! The people supporting apple were not about to go away anytime soon. And now they may have just made the long-term survival of the company shorter!

[No One]

According to Steve Jobs and Phil Schiller (of Apple), Mac OS X for Intel will run on future Macs, but not on generic clones. It was also indicated that Apple would not prevent Windows from being installed on the future Intel Macs.

But that still doesn't address the people who just purchased G5's. Are they simply going to be out of luck once new Intel only software comes out?

[The iMac Man]

But that still doesn't address the people who just purchased G5's. Are they simply going to be out of luck once new Intel only software comes out?

There wont be any Intel-only software. There will be PPC-only software which the IntelMac user wont be able to run though.

But, from now on, Mac apps will be written for both Intel and PPC apps at the same time, thanks to the new Xcode 2.1

[Brad Oliver]

There wont be any Intel-only software.

That's not entirely true. You could in theory build a Mac app that runs on an x86-only Mac - it looks like it's just a compiler switch to support one or more platforms. Naturally most developers will want to target both until PPC Macs disappear into the sunset.

[Eric5h5]

What does everybody else think?

I think that Mac gaming has been effectively killed off. Being realistic, I can't see any way around it.

I guess the optimistic way to look at it right now is this: does it really matter? When you're playing a game, the underlying OS ceases to matter much for the gamer. Because you're effectively dealing with the *game's* operating system or user interface, which is the same for OS X or Windows. The advantages of an x86 Mac obviously being that you get games when they're released, being limited only by what doesn't work in WINE (which will continuously be improved, I'm sure). And if you can manage to dual-boot into Windows, even the WINE compatibility issue goes away, if you're willing to put up with the hassle of dual-booting.

Personally I think it does matter (a bunch of people lose their jobs, and the community goes away, among other things). I'd also be really concerned about the "Well, just run it with WINE" issue going beyond gaming, into the realm of normal applications, where it really starts to make a mess of the OS X experience.

--Eric

[bobbob]

Mac apps will be written for both Intel and PPC apps at the same time, thanks to the new Xcode 2.1

And Carbon will let you get the most out of Mac OSX pluss let you run your apps on OS9 ;)

[The iMac Man]

And Carbon will let you get the most out of Mac OSX pluss let you run your apps on OS9

I personally have no problem with Carbon apps.

[The iMac Man]

That's not entirely true. You could in theory build a Mac app that runs on an x86-only Mac - it looks like it's just a compiler switch to support one or more platforms. Naturally most developers will want to target both until PPC Macs disappear into the sunset.

What would be the reason to go x86-only? Would an x86-only app perform better than one written for both x86 and PPC?

[bobbob]

I personally have no problem with Carbon apps.

And MacTel users won't have any problem, either. Do you think you would have a problem running your carbon apps on Mac OS9?

[BadgerHunter]

Do we even know if running Windows will be possible (natively)? Do we know if the chip will be x86? Do we know if emulation will be fast enough to allow games to run?

I think the answer to all that is a resounding no. It might be wise for everyone, including developers, to hold off until all this is known.

[Siriusfox]

...until PPC Macs disappear into the sunset.

So, for the next oh, 3-7 years?

[Tuncer (IMG)]

Be sure to read some of Ryan Gordon's comments.

http://www.insidemacgames.com/features/view.php?ID=355

[Eric5h5]

Do we even know if running Windows will be possible (natively)? Do we know if the chip will be x86? Do we know if emulation will be fast enough to allow games to run?

I think the answer to all that is a resounding no. It might be wise for everyone, including developers, to hold off until all this is known.

Actually, we do know those answers. Apple said themselves that they aren't going to actively encourage or enable people to run Windows, but that they can't stop people from hacking it on their own. Yes, the switch is to x86. And no, the emulation will definitely not be fast enough for games. Apple's own documentation about this says so. It says it's basically intended for programs with lots of waiting-on-user-input like word processing (so you don't notice how slow it is), with maybe some light 3D stuff. (Don't have a link to the PDF handy, but it's in the other thread. You know, the one with a lot of posts. )

--Eric

[kardinal]

The Mac (as we know it) is dead. Long live the Mac (or whatever is left of it from now on).

[The iMac Man]

And MacTel users won't have any problem, either. Do you think you would have a problem running your carbon apps on Mac OS9?

Can you please, for once, learn to say things in a non-sarcastic way? It's really hard trying to understand what you are saying in writing without hearing your vocal highlights and seeing your facial expressions.

I have completely forgotten what you are arguing for....

Are we worrying about running new app on old Macs, or old app on new Macs, or new apps on new Mac, or what?


Anyway, all I said was that there wouldn't be any Intel-only apps... I don't care how well the new Intel software runs on PPC Macs, personally, because I think people should upgrade their computers and let the rest of us get on with technology. I can't stand it when people expect new top-end apps to run on their 5 year old computers.

[bobbob]

I can't stand it when people expect new top-end apps to run on their 5 year old computers.

I can't stand it when new apps should be able to run on older hardware or OS, but don't. Apple made it a bit difficult to support older versions of Carbon. At first it was Mach-O vs. CFM Carbon, with companies (of course) moving to Mach-O. Then it was revisions between versions of OSX Carbon, with companies using only the latest and greatest. Now, with library troubles, unfixed bugs, and other incompatibilities, Carbon apps that should and could run easily on older OSs don't. Game updates require newer versions than the box says will work, fairly undemanding office apps now require the latest version, security patches and bugfixes stop coming, and you're now expected to move on. I'm guessing Apple will do the same to PPC in a couple years.

[Siriusfox]

However, a good set of people will keep their old computers because MOST PEOPLE CAN'T AFFORD TO BUY A NEW COMPUTER EVERY 6 MONTHS.

My family gets a new one every 2-3 years and I'm running one that came with 8.6 now. I see most people like this. Don't expect this swap to be very fast. By the time I'm in and out of HS, and Collage, it should have settled for a few years. (I start HS next year)

[Maxor127]

I just about to start my own topic on this until I saw this one. If I have no problem running my old games that were made for OS X then this won't bother me as much and I have the hope that it will make new software easier to port. But if all of my old software suddenly becomes worthless then I won't be happy. Guess the business of selling old computers will boom once this happens.