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Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger Impressions and Performance


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#61 crpcory

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Posted 03 May 2005 - 01:34 PM

Got a new dual 2.3, put in 2 gigs of ram (for only $150...man apple ram is pricey). Also just put in an ati X800.

Initially i'll say the images are georgous and the system is really fast and fluid. Playing Halo i notice that on FSAA x4 at medium resolution the outdoor scenes are completely fluid, i do howerver get slow down when i my vehicle collides with something and at some other random times (on the first level it got super slow at one points while just staring at a door a foot infront of me...go figure).

A much bigger issue though is open GL artifacts with this card/os setup. In Lightwave i get nasty artifacts and can only work in single viewport mode...really really sucks (i read soemone had problems like this with WOW). Does anyone know a seemingly meaningful place to report this nasty buisness so it can get solved by ati or by apple for 10.4.1.

I hope all those open GL people apple was asking for in march can fix this up.

#62 Abecedaria

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Posted 03 May 2005 - 01:36 PM

Mattg, on May 2nd 2005, 09:34 PM, said:

A very well conceived and thought out response. 2 points though.

First, inregard to overall OS functionality--
What i'm getting at though is something like this:
http://www.cocoatech...04/28/index.php

Heck of an add on no?

Some might say, "you like it so much, well why not just get that program and be happy". That's fine on paper, but honestly, it's just not the same. Not every user will do that, nor should they have too. That type of functionality should be part and parcel with our OS, not an add on.

Apple adds new features with this release and that's fine, but for the love of god, fix the old things too. It's the residual bugs that I site as productivity killers--bugs that no amount of new features can solve.

Second--
The part of your post in bold troubles me greatly. The very power of my Mac is the abliity to use the Dektop to store a colleciton of files I use regularity in some coherant manner. The day that I start to throw my two class sections together into one folder just so i can  use spotlight ain't gonna come. Spotlight is handy no doubt, but to say you'll eventually throw things in one place is---I don't know what! The Ars article talkes about this very point and comes to the same conclusion as i just did. Great for long lost files and better searching, but it's not going to replace the finder by any means.

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As you and the Ars Technica article pointed out, there are some things that Spotlight does not do.   But right now, it is far and away better than any search tool built-in to any desktop OS, IMHO. I'm dubious that Longhorn will end up out-doing Tiger in this regard. It is also leaps and bounds better than anything in Panther and, thus, both a productivity boost and a good reason to upgrade. It seems silly not to upgrade and get the benefit because "It could be better".

Could it be better? Sure, so your criticism is appreciated. Please make sure you send it to Apple!

And yes, the CocoaTech tool seems compelling and worth looking into, but it's not part of the OS.

You take issue with my suggestion of using Spotlight to shift the paradigm on how you work with your computer. While it may not be an approach you prefer, it may be for others and it certainly enables other myriad of ways to work which are not possible with Panther or XP.

You also don't take issue with my mention of Automator, so assume you agree on it's potential benefit? For any production design workgroup, Automator may be worth the upgrade alone.

Still, I'll wait untill the bugs are worked out. In my corporate environment, I'm told that Tiger breaks:
Firewall access
NAV
Thursby's DAVE and AdmitMac
Cisco VPN

Yipe!

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#63 NeoWolf

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Posted 03 May 2005 - 05:22 PM

Longhorn's looking to be about the same at least on the technical front. Their original plans involving WinFS would've technically been better pretty much for sure, but given 5/6 years they still haven't been able to pull off what they  promised and canned it.

#64 1337

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Posted 03 May 2005 - 07:43 PM

NeoWolf, on May 3rd 2005, 04:22 PM, said:

Longhorn's looking to be about the same at least on the technical front. Their original plans involving WinFS would've technically been better pretty much for sure, but given 5/6 years they still haven't been able to pull off what they  promised and canned it.

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Not to turn this into an OS debate, but WinFS and Longhorn are hardly comparables.  M$ has a titanic task on their end, and it behooves them to delay the release of the next "great" Windows bastard until they can be reasonably certain all their ducks are in a row.  Remember, they have to set their OS to work with dozens of different hardware suppliers and hundreds of software shops.

Apple has enjoyed the ability to "take a bath" and set up something completely different.  Their user base is significantly smaller and more apt to accept the stumbling first steps of something new and great.

I actually look forward to seeing if Longhorn's search capabilities match or outdo Spotlight or its later incarnations in 2006/2007.

#65 NeoWolf

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Posted 03 May 2005 - 08:02 PM

WinFS would've easily been better, that's pretty much just how it is. But would've the operative word. The project was cut. And in half the time it took MS to work on it and decide to drop it, Apple made Spotlight and it's great.

#66 Lucian

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Posted 03 May 2005 - 08:51 PM

crpcory, on May 3rd 2005, 07:34 PM, said:

A much bigger issue though is open GL artifacts with this card/os setup. In Lightwave i get nasty artifacts and can only work in single viewport mode...really really sucks (i read soemone had problems like this with WOW). Does anyone know a seemingly meaningful place to report this nasty buisness so it can get solved by ati or by apple for 10.4.1.

I hope all those open GL people apple was asking for in march can fix this up.

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Crpcory, could you please e-mail me with complete details of your system setup and the bugs? Sending me your system profiler report would be very helpful. Thanks.
I live in Mexifornia.

#67 landru

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Posted 03 May 2005 - 09:35 PM

landru, on May 1st 2005, 08:26 PM, said:

Installed Tiger. So far, everything's good except that I seem to get lockups with USBOverdrive 10.3.8 installed (I don't even see the Kernel Panic window). I couldn't find any pattern to it. Removing USBOverdrive makes the lockups go away. Anyone else using this with Tiger? Is it working for you?

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[G5 said:

Hydra,May 1st 2005, 11:23 PM]I had the same problem with my MX-1000 and USBOD every 20-30 min.  I was getting mouse lock-ups but the keyboard was working fine (wireless BT Apple one),  but I tried unhooking my Belkin 7 port hub and they disappeared and haven't had one for almost 2 days now.  I hope a future USBOD or 10.4 update fixes this as I'd hate to loose all those extra ports.

-Jerry C.

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Well, after doing more testing I figured it out: my USB hub is OK (I have 4-port D-Link). Unfortunately, USBOverdrive seems to be picking up my APC UPS under Tiger (didn't seem to be a problem under Panther). Disconnected the UPS USB connection for now; hopefully it'll be fixed soon.

BTW, I had the idea that it might be the UPS by looking at the "Handled Devices" popup in USB Overdrive.app ... it was showing up there, along with my trackball (no other USB devices were picked up there). You might want to check and see if it's a specific device on your hub that's causing the problem, rather than your hub itself.

Hope this helps someone else out there.

#68 Amon CMB

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Posted 04 May 2005 - 02:04 AM

One thing I'm getting really sick of is how Spotlight and Find automatically start searching when you start typing.

I'd much rather it wait until I'm done typing in the file name before it begins searching.

Is there any way to make it do this?

And also, it resets all of the search preferences each time I use Find.  (resets things like brushed metal / aqua, search locations, etc).  Really annoying.

#69 Quicksilver

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Posted 04 May 2005 - 10:46 PM

Amon CMB, on May 4th 2005, 08:04 AM, said:

One thing I'm getting really sick of is how Spotlight and Find automatically start searching when you start typing.

I'd much rather it wait until I'm done typing in the file name before it begins searching.

Is there any way to make it do this?

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Why???   :blink:  The way it is, it's faster and smarter.
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#70 NightBird

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Posted 05 May 2005 - 10:22 AM

One thing that is troubling is that I now always have about 500 megs of inactive ram.  This is after a couple of mins after start up.  I have 1.5 gigs of ram.  Is this a bad thing?

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#71 1337

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Posted 05 May 2005 - 03:30 PM

Amon CMB, on May 4th 2005, 01:04 AM, said:

One thing I'm getting really sick of is how Spotlight and Find automatically start searching when you start typing.

Hmm.  The only reason I could see to not like this is if it slowed you down, but it doesn't.  Think of it like a relay race.  The way they do it, the next person to take the baton starts before they can officially take it from their teammate.  They accelerate while their teammate approaches this line so that they're running at the same speed at the moment they're allowed to hand it off.

By waiting until you finish typing, that would be analagous to a race where the person waits at a standstill for their teammate to get them the baton, and then starts running.

Their way is faster, your way is slower.  I should think there'd be nothing to dislike...

#72 mwat

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Posted 05 May 2005 - 03:40 PM

Amon CMB, on May 4th 2005, 01:04 AM, said:

One thing I'm getting really sick of is how Spotlight and Find automatically start searching when you start typing.

I'd much rather it wait until I'm done typing in the file name before it begins searching.

Is there any way to make it do this?

And also, it resets all of the search preferences each time I use Find.  (resets things like brushed metal / aqua, search locations, etc).  Really annoying.

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I happen to agree with this.  Apple devs should have set a timer to reset to 0 each time a key press took place, and then set the timer to 3 or the like.  Then when the timer hit 3 the next event (query the drive indexes) would be invoked.  Or they could at least let this be set in the prefs.

#73 Quicksilver

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Posted 05 May 2005 - 04:11 PM

Well, Spotlight does give you a second or two before it starts.
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#74 a2daj

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Posted 05 May 2005 - 05:35 PM

My biggest complaint about Spotlight is that most of the time I'll find what I want while I'm typing but when I down arrow to what I want spotlight continues working and most of the time updates the window before I can get to the object I want.  Sometimes the object is removed from the list.
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#75 lordofgain

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Posted 05 May 2005 - 06:20 PM

The first update to Panther was 17 days after it's release, I am sure that something similar will occur with Tiger say in about another two weeks.

Also as an afterthought wasn't the rollout for Panther much more problamatic than Tiger?

#76 a2daj

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Posted 05 May 2005 - 08:37 PM

lordofgain, on May 5th 2005, 04:20 PM, said:

The first update to Panther was 17 days after it's release, I am sure that something similar will occur with Tiger say in about another two weeks.

Also as an afterthought wasn't the rollout for Panther much more problamatic than Tiger?

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Yes, one of the reasons for the quick release of a .1 patch.  Panther ate certain Firewire 800 drives for lunch.  Long story short, firmware had bug, 10.3.0 screwed drives because of bug.  Apple shipped workaround in 10.3.1, new firmware for FW800 drives released.
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#77 monkeyphonix

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Posted 25 May 2005 - 01:32 AM

a2daj, on May 5th 2005, 11:35 PM, said:

My biggest complaint about Spotlight is that most of the time I'll find what I want while I'm typing but when I down arrow to what I want spotlight continues working and most of the time updates the window before I can get to the object I want.  Sometimes the object is removed from the list.

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And it doesn't find invisible files....grrrr.

#78 Clave

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Posted 25 May 2005 - 03:58 AM

crpcory, on May 3rd 2005, 08:34 PM, said:

Got a new dual 2.3, put in 2 gigs of ram (for only $150...man apple ram is pricey). Also just put in an ati X800.

A much bigger issue though is open GL artifacts with this card/os setup. In Lightwave i get nasty artifacts and can only work in single viewport mode...really really sucks (i read soemone had problems like this with WOW). Does anyone know a seemingly meaningful place to report this nasty buisness so it can get solved by ati or by apple for 10.4.1.

I hope all those open GL people apple was asking for in march can fix this up.

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Once again Lightwave and ATI are clashing with each other - Sorry to say this, but it looks like you have the wrong choice of card.  nVidia does not seem to cause Lightwave problems...