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Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger Impressions and Performance


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#41 c15zyx

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Posted 01 May 2005 - 01:54 PM

QuicksilverG5, on May 1st 2005, 12:42 PM, said:

If you pirated the code, then it won't work because Apple eventually learns which codes have been pirated and disables them.

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Well, it might also be for the fact that QuickTime Pro keys do not transfer across changes in QT version number, it's always been that way. QT5 Pro keys don't work in 6, 6 keys don't work in 7. If you keep the version 6 player from being overwritten (rename it) you can still use the export feature and piggy-back onto the QT7 engine, however it's best to just pay and upgrade to a new key :).

While Apple H.264 is nice, their implementation of it is rather simple. I'm just glad that it can play back my x264 encoded DVD rips without complaining about profile levels like it did with my XviD encodes and Appl's (cheap) QT MPEG-4 video decoder implementation.

#42 kardinal

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Posted 01 May 2005 - 03:47 PM

Mattg, on May 1st 2005, 05:59 PM, said:

From the same ArsTechnica Article:

Read on:
LINK

Lucian, I suppose this guy should "use the thing first" too? Oh wait, he has. Blah Blah Blah. Dumb ass.

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You seemed to miss the most obvious bit: the Conclusion (see below). Despite all the niggles and criticism of individual features, Siracusa seemed to be pretty happy with Tiger, and thought it was worth upgrading for pretty much everybody.

Quote

Conclusion
Tiger is the best version of Mac OS X yet. It offers substantial improvements over Panther in all important areas. The performance improvements are immediately noticeable. Every major bundled application has been improved. There's an unprecedented number of substantial, totally new features and technologies: Spotlight, Core Image and Video, Quartz 2D Extreme, Dashboard, and Automator, just to name a few.

This is all on top of the most significant revision to the core operating system in the history of Mac OS X. Fine-grained locking in the kernel prepares Tiger for future Macs with multi-core CPUs. A stable, abstracted, forward-compatible system for kernel extensions frees Apple to make more kernel changes in the future without worrying about breaking existing kernel extensions. And as usual, nearly every bundled Unix program has been updated.

For the first time in the history of Mac OS X, Apple has made progress in the realm of file metadata. While Spotlight plays it safe with external index files tracking information gleaned from existing file system metadata and file contents, Tiger's extended attribute APIs lay the groundwork for a much more interesting future. Uniform Type Identifiers add another missing piece to the metadata puzzle. If Apple can fully realize the potential of these budding, and still disparate systems, Mac OS X may finally catch and surpass the previous file metadata technology leader: the venerable BeOS. My fingers are crossed.

If you're still running Jaguar or earlier, you really owe it to yourself to upgrade to Tiger. It'll be the best $129 you've ever spent on an operating system. If you're happy with Panther, I strongly recommend going to an Apple store and checking out Tiger in person. Chances are good that there'll be at least one or two features that you'll decide you need, if not right way, then soon. As with any new release, it won't hurt to wait for version 10.4.1 or later.

Overall, Tiger is impressive. If this is what Apple can do with 18 months of development time instead of 12, I tremble to think what they could do with a full two years—let alone the length of time it took for Mac OS X 10.0 to first ship. The productivity of Apple's Mac OS X development team has increased tremendously since 10.0; they're now firing on all cylinders. While I dearly wish someone would steer them in the direction of the eternally neglected Finder, I can't help but be proud of the little OS team that could.

Mac OS X started its life as the most ambitious consumer operating system ever produced. Apple abandoned its existing, 16-year-old code base for something entirely new. Out of the gate, Mac OS X was a technical curiosity with few applications, and a performance dog. A scant four years later, Tiger is a powerhouse that combines the best Unix has to offer with a feature-rich, user-friendly interface. The increasingly capable bundled applications are just icing on the cake. We've come a long way, baby.


#43 Lucian

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Posted 01 May 2005 - 04:24 PM

Mattg, on May 1st 2005, 05:19 PM, said:

Why?
http://arstechnica.c...cosx-10.4.ars/9
Do you feel special when you try 'n belittle someone with harsh disregard or is it part of a larger personality problem? You need help. Get out more, get a girlfriend, find some friends. Just do something.

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Says he who found time to read a TWENTY page review of an operating system. Me? I skimmed it before I installed it, choosing to reserve judgement until I actually had some hands-on time.

Quote

Dumb ass.
Now now. Don't be too hard on yourself.

Also, pwn3d by kardinal and reading comprehension (or lack thereof).
I live in Mexifornia.

#44 landru

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Posted 01 May 2005 - 06:26 PM

Installed Tiger. So far, everything's good except that I seem to get lockups with USBOverdrive 10.3.8 installed (I don't even see the Kernel Panic window). I couldn't find any pattern to it. Removing USBOverdrive makes the lockups go away. Anyone else using this with Tiger? Is it working for you?

#45 [G5]Hydra

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Posted 01 May 2005 - 09:23 PM

I had the same problem with my MX-1000 and USBOD every 20-30 min.  I was getting mouse lock-ups but the keyboard was working fine (wireless BT Apple one),  but I tried unhooking my Belkin 7 port hub and they disappeared and haven't had one for almost 2 days now.  I hope a future USBOD or 10.4 update fixes this as I'd hate to loose all those extra ports.

-Jerry C.

#46 Mattg

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Posted 01 May 2005 - 10:13 PM

Lucian, on May 1st 2005, 03:24 PM, said:

Says he who found time to read a TWENTY page review of an operating system. Me? I skimmed it before I installed it, choosing to reserve judgement until I actually had some hands-on time.
Now now. Don't be too hard on yourself.

Also, pwn3d by kardinal and reading comprehension (or lack thereof).

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Boy oh boy have I ever been "pwn3d". Nice

#47 Tesseract

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Posted 02 May 2005 - 10:42 AM

a2daj, on May 1st 2005, 12:44 AM, said:

Activity Monitor opens up just fine for me, but I did an Upgrade rather than a clean or archive/install.

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It appears that for some reason the installer simply skipped GraphKit.framework for me. I extracted it from the Essentials package on the install DVD using pax, put it where it's supposed to live, and now Activity Monitor works. Yay for weird installer oversights. :blink:

joefox, on May 2nd 2005, 05:21 AM, said:

You can VLC from apple to play Ogg, WMV, and many other files. That may help until an upgrade comes. But VLC doesn't have the best interface. (VLC is available at apple)

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Yeah, it works for playing the music. So does MacAmp Lite for that matter. But I miss my iTunes library browsing and searching. I'm going to see if I can contribute to the bounty for a proper, full featured Xiph QuickTime plugin.

#48 Abecedaria

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Posted 02 May 2005 - 01:11 PM

Mattg, on May 1st 2005, 09:17 AM, said:

Now we get 10.4 and what does it give us? Widgets? How do does help us at work? The new save as PDF-X is nice, but any press pros will use Distiller anyway. The new Quicktime? Live refresh while resizing, jeez, finally. The new codec? remember Pixlet? Good stuff but hardly mainstream. The unix-under-the-hood stuff is nice, but with the notable exception of CUPS Printing in 10.3 nothing us movie/print/animation/design people need.

I don't know, I just find that the finder still needs a lot of work and this release hasn't done anything about it, and I'm pissed.

With the Windows world constantly nipping at our heels we need true innovation, and this release isn't it. In fact, I don't know what this release is.

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I think you should really take a close look at Spotlight. It's cutesie name belies an enormous amount of power and ease of use. This one feature could literally change the way you work with your computer. I heard several Apple developers, who were working on the beta, say that they now take ALL their files, put them in a single folder, and use spotlight to find what they need far faster than digging through folder hierarchies. That is what I call a "production" feature.
People may compare Spotlight to finder indexing or even Google Desktop Search on the PC. Don't believe it, Spotlight goes much deeper.

The other "production" tool that could have a huge impact on work-flows is Automator. Think of it as Adobe's "Action" palette for the entire OS, not just one app. If that doesn't have enterprise time savings written all over it, I don't know what does.

My response echos what others have said here: Try it before passing judgment. You may be surprised.

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#49 HaloZen

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Posted 02 May 2005 - 03:01 PM

I have a Dual 1.8 G5 with 2GB Ram and a 128 MB Memory card.

Mostly - I am impressed with the speed increases of Tiger...especially in Halo and CoD.  The only disappointment I have is in Star Wars:  Knights of the Old Republic.  It has become unplayable for me.  It is very laggy...even at low screen resolutions.  I have checked to make sure I have the latest from Aspyr....

Anyone else notice this?

p.s.  I did the archive and install feature when I installed Tiger.

#50 Quicksilver

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Posted 02 May 2005 - 03:51 PM

For the trillionth time, it is not laggy.  The word to use is slow.
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#51 Siriusfox

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Posted 02 May 2005 - 04:37 PM

c15zyx, on May 1st 2005, 12:54 PM, said:

…it's always been that way. QT5 Pro keys don't work in 6, 6 keys don't work in 7…
I knew that. :whistling:
Sorry I used QT5 at its end, and… well it's a long story but I just didn't use the pro features until 6 so I was never to hard on my dad to buy the new key. hence, I though they transfered from 4-5, 5-6, ext.
My mistake.
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#52 kardinal

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Posted 02 May 2005 - 04:45 PM

Mattg, on May 2nd 2005, 04:13 AM, said:

Boy oh boy have I ever been "pwn3d". Nice

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Please forgive my ignorance - what does 'pwn3d' mean?

#53 HaloZen

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Posted 02 May 2005 - 05:11 PM

QuicksilverG5, on May 2nd 2005, 02:51 PM, said:

For the trillionth time, it is not laggy.  The word to use is slow.

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Riiiiight....someone is cranky with new people here....sheeesh.

I find Knights of the Old Republic to be SLOW then.   ;)

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#54 the Battle Cat

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Posted 02 May 2005 - 05:12 PM

kardinal, on May 2nd 2005, 02:45 PM, said:

Please forgive my ignorance - what does 'pwn3d' mean?

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"Owned".
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#55 Quicksilver

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Posted 02 May 2005 - 08:13 PM

HaloZen, on May 2nd 2005, 11:11 PM, said:

Riiiiight....someone is cranky with new people here....sheeesh.

I find Knights of the Old Republic to be SLOW then.   ;)

Thanks

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No, not with new members, just with people who accidentally (and constantly, it seems) apply an internet connection term to computer performance.  The word "lag" just doesn't describe what's going on.
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#56 zapranoth

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Posted 02 May 2005 - 08:21 PM

QuicksilverG5, on May 2nd 2005, 02:51 PM, said:

For the trillionth time, it is not laggy.  The word to use is slow.

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For the record, to post that a trillion times, assuming a 60 WPM typing speed, neglecting browser lag (slowness!  I meant slowness!)...

assuming no power interruptions, computer failures, global warming, thermonuclear holocausts or other interruptions of even the most trivial kind...  an unbreakable keyboard...  and that the needed IP protocols wouldn't change in the needed time...

no hand arthritis, aging, sprains or other musculoskeletal problems... and the necessary lifespan...  no sleep or food if that detracted from your typing speed...

...and neglecting wind resistance, yadda yadda... would take about...

just over 443,937 years, by my quick calculation.  But I could be wrong.

Obligatory post content:  I get my copy of Tiger tomorrow, and then the games begin, yay!

[edit:  Lag could be construed as latency between components of a system, but such a suggestion might net me a cranky reply.]
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Floor it.  That's technical talk."   - SRV

#57 Mattg

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Posted 02 May 2005 - 10:34 PM

Abecedaria, on May 2nd 2005, 12:11 PM, said:

I think you should really take a close look at Spotlight. It's cutesie name belies an enormous amount of power and ease of use. This one feature could literally change the way you work with your computer. . I heard several Apple developers, who were working on the beta, say that they now take ALL their files, put them in a single folder, and use spotlight to find what they need far faster than digging through folder hierarchies. That is what I call a "production" feature
People may compare Spotlight to finder indexing or even Google Desktop Search on the PC. Don't believe it, Spotlight goes much deeper.

The other "production" tool that could have a huge impact on work-flows is Automator. Think of it as Adobe's "Action" palette for the entire OS, not just one app. If that doesn't have enterprise time savings written all over it, I don't know what does.

My response echos what others have said here: Try it before passing judgment. You may be surprised.

abc

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A very well conceived and thought out response. 2 points though.

First, inregard to overall OS functionality--
What i'm getting at though is something like this:
http://www.cocoatech...04/28/index.php

Heck of an add on no?

Some might say, "you like it so much, well why not just get that program and be happy". That's fine on paper, but honestly, it's just not the same. Not every user will do that, nor should they have too. That type of functionality should be part and parcel with our OS, not an add on.

Apple adds new features with this release and that's fine, but for the love of god, fix the old things too. It's the residual bugs that I site as productivity killers--bugs that no amount of new features can solve.

Second--
The part of your post in bold troubles me greatly. The very power of my Mac is the abliity to use the Dektop to store a colleciton of files I use regularity in some coherant manner. The day that I start to throw my two class sections together into one folder just so i can  use spotlight ain't gonna come. Spotlight is handy no doubt, but to say you'll eventually throw things in one place is---I don't know what! The Ars article talkes about this very point and comes to the same conclusion as i just did. Great for long lost files and better searching, but it's not going to replace the finder by any means.


On a related note: Lucian, forgive me but I get frustrated with your apparent acceptance of mediocrity. It's fine to love Apple, but to love it unconditionally isn't helping anything.

We both love our brand, that's more than obvious. But I simply refuse to accept an "upgrade" that leaves so many stones unturned. Until we have a much higher market share I won't cease with the criticisms. We're the underdogs, and I'll never forget that.

#58 NeoWolf

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Posted 03 May 2005 - 12:09 AM

The funny thing is the Ars article over all just got me more excited about Tiger, but this is still completely a matter of personal opinion. Especially when the only two things in Tiger that I would call "vital" are the updated WebCore and QuickTime 7. Both of which Apple was wise enough to still let come down to Panther. So if a small performance boost (I've noticed one but it's far from monumental) and the the new features aren't enough to earn your interest, that's perfectly fine because at that point you are not missing out on anything at all. Currently the only apps that absolutely require Tiger are things that directly involve new features like CoreImage. Panther support is still in the works for quite some time so it's not like it's a sinking ship people need to be saved from.

#59 Lucian

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Posted 03 May 2005 - 01:10 AM

Mattg, on May 3rd 2005, 04:34 AM, said:

On a related note: Lucian, forgive me but I get frustrated with your apparent acceptance of mediocrity. It's fine to love Apple, but to love it unconditionally isn't helping anything.

We both love our brand, that's more than obvious. But I simply refuse to accept an "upgrade" that leaves so many stones unturned. Until we have a much higher market share I won't cease with the criticisms. We're the underdogs, and I'll never forget that.

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Please quote the exact words where I demonstrate "acceptance of mediocrity".
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#60 Whaleman

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Posted 03 May 2005 - 02:36 AM

Lucian, on May 3rd 2005, 08:10 AM, said:

Please quote the exact words where I demonstrate "acceptance of mediocrity".

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Heh, if anything, sticking to Panther would be "acceptance of mediocrity", since Tiger is better in most ways ;) I can't see where Lucian does anything like that.

Ok, it costs money, so blimey... but it's a nice and significant upgrade. And not getting it would equal missing out on future OpenGL updates, since Apple usually kills all such development on an old system.

Besides a few bugs, I can't see no reason not to get tiger. With the educational discount it doesn't cost that much more than a game or two... so why complain? "Oh noes! Apple tries to improve a great system as much as they can and charge money for it! MS is much better since they only do the same with 4 years intervals!" :P

Paying for Tiger helps Apple grow and improve. And it is a significant upgrade (my G5 feels snappier than ever, and there's so many minor tweaks that I love that haven't even been mentioned on the OS X site.). But if you don't want to, don't buy it. You will get it the next time you buy a Mac instead (I got at least three copies of Panther so far...).
You shouldn't ask yourself such worthless questions. Aim higher. Try this: why am I here? Why do I exist, and what is my purpose in this universe?

(Answers: 'Cause you are. 'Cause you do. 'Cause I got a shotgun, and you ain't got one.)

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