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#41 NAG

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 06:03 PM

View PostHuntn, on November 1st 2007, 04:02 AM, said:

I don't remember that, but I'm not implying there were no bugs at all. It seemed pretty polished even in the Nov beta.
The game was pretty good, the servers weren't. At launch the lag was horrendous. I miss captain placeholder.
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#42 Huntn

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Posted 02 November 2007 - 07:08 AM

View PostJanichsan, on November 1st 2007, 04:32 PM, said:

They do: the WoW EULA contains a passage like this.

If the purpose of monitoring software to prevent cheating, I would accept it as I think most players would.

#43 QuantaCat

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Posted 02 November 2007 - 07:38 AM

Depends on whether that information is stored.
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#44 G-News

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Posted 02 November 2007 - 08:23 AM

View PostQuantaCat, on November 2nd 2007, 02:38 PM, said:

Depends on whether that information is stored.


You should read the EULA explanation on the HGL homepage.
They're probably spying on you less than Blizzard is with WoW. At least WoW does scan your window titles... "Hot Britney Spears pr0n for free, register now!"
Anyway, there certainly are things that have to be ironed out. But I wouldn't consider the security aspect a lame excuse.
In Diablo 2, Realm characters where internet only too, you couldn't play them offline or in a LAN. And frankly, D2 outside of realms was a real mess of  cheats, hacks and dupes. And I wouldn't want that to happen to any new game anymore.
I'm a LAN-Party organisator myself, so a game not having LAN support is always a drawback in my book too, then again, WoW doesn't have LAN support either, yet you see a lot of WoW being played on LANs. Most have a decent internet connection now anyway, you couldn't really do without it anymore anyway, Steam just being one example.
Also, I'm from Switzerland, yet I'm not concerned about my privacy either. These game companies all have no reason to piss you off unnecessarily, after all they want you to play, to pay and to return when the game is EOL. So far, Flagship seems to care more about its customers than Blizzard ever did with WoW.
For example, they are basing their balancing on actual server game data, not on some obscure internal testing. Having played WoW for 2.3 years, I'd have liked to see some balancing that wasn't simply pulled out of someones arse. (I was a ret paladin, I know what a whine-induced nerf is).
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#45 NAG

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Posted 02 November 2007 - 09:29 AM

Warden doesn't send any recognizable data back though, it just checks for things it knows then sends back info that doesn't link you to "Hot Britney Spears pr0n for free, register now!"

It is just to check for keyloggers, hacks, and other cheats. People would be complaining at blizzard for not doing anything about the hackers and cheats if they didn't do this.
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#46 QuantaCat

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Posted 02 November 2007 - 03:22 PM

There is absolutely no reason for LAN not to be present, other than they didn't want to program it in. What you (and they) are referring to is "making the same server tools available for LAN". Which is of no interest to me. I'd more like something like a savable character thing, and a direct connect thing, with maybe a very simple lobby. But they're rushing as it is, and THAT is my gripe with the thing.

And I'm not so worried about the spy or adware thing, because if they use any information gathered this way, I can sue them to hell and back and probably a whirl around the world too. Which is fun.
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#47 Tetsuya

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Posted 02 November 2007 - 04:35 PM

View PostQuantaCat, on November 1st 2007, 02:27 PM, said:

I hate connecting to Battle.net just to connect to a computer thats a meter away. It's the most useless thing ever. Or any internet connection over a direct one.

for a hack-free environment, it is VERY worth it.  And for the ability to play on any machine that has the game installed.  

Quote

Hellgate is a diablo clone, set in the future. Only they're tampering with the bits that made Diablo so successful, and they're not original enough to pull something like that off.
uh... you realize that these ARE the people who created Diablo? Flagship is about 70% of the staff of Blizzard North, who decided, when faced with the "work on WoW" ultimatum... quit.  And formed Flagship to make Diablo 3 - only it isnt called Diablo 3, is all.  Just so you're clear.  This IS the team that brough you D2.  

Quote


I don't see Blizzard make you agree to a EULA that has spy/ad-ware bits in them. or make anyone pay for "more content". I'd rather have an expansion.
And this thing with the LAN, for "security" reasons, it's just because they wanted to push a game that wasn't finished, in my opinion. Who the hell said they'd have to "expose server workings" if you build in a LAN functionality.. oh wait, only if you dont actually bother putting an effort into a feature.. yeah. I'm dissappointed. But what the hey, maybe someone will conjure up a server tool that makes people make servers on their own..

Any place you might play a LAN party should have a fast internet connection anyway, so no real loss.

#48 Naman

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Posted 02 November 2007 - 07:42 PM

View PostTetsuya, on November 2nd 2007, 03:35 PM, said:

for a hack-free environment, it is VERY worth it.  And for the ability to play on any machine that has the game installed.  

uh... you realize that these ARE the people who created Diablo? Flagship is about 70% of the staff of Blizzard North, who decided, when faced with the "work on WoW" ultimatum... quit.  And formed Flagship to make Diablo 3 - only it isnt called Diablo 3, is all.  Just so you're clear.  This IS the team that brough you D2.  
Any place you might play a LAN party should have a fast internet connection anyway, so no real loss.

Apparently, the other 30% of the team were the real artists behind it. Not that Hellgate isn't a decent game, but Diablo 3 it ain't. I'm about 10 hours in, and the level design is pretty craptastic. Almost all the levels are constructed from the same "overworld", "steam tunnels", and "inside building" tilesets. The only level so far that actually felt like a unique area was the British Museum.

#49 QuantaCat

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Posted 02 November 2007 - 11:34 PM

Who cares about hack free. I don't play tournaments, nor do I play with people I don't know. And even if they did have 70% of the original diablo team, it still is nowhere near as polished as any title that blizzard made, so whatever they did, they forgot to take their quality manager with them. And please, I don't care if a place has an internet connection or not, it's just very unnecessary.
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#50 Tetsuya

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 12:07 AM

View PostNaman, on November 2nd 2007, 06:42 PM, said:

Apparently, the other 30% of the team were the real artists behind it. Not that Hellgate isn't a decent game, but Diablo 3 it ain't. I'm about 10 hours in, and the level design is pretty craptastic. Almost all the levels are constructed from the same "overworld", "steam tunnels", and "inside building" tilesets. The only level so far that actually felt like a unique area was the British Museum.

you uh... never played Diablo, apparently.

the levels there were completely randomly generated.  And there were.... 5 tilesets?  Maybe 6.  

Lord of Destruction added a few more (two new interior and one exterior)

so your argument there doesnt hold water.

There was no "level design" in Diablo anymore than there is in Hellgate.  THe levels are still entirely randomly generated.

#51 Tesseract

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 04:50 AM

View PostTetsuya, on November 3rd 2007, 09:35 AM, said:

Any place you might play a LAN party should have a fast internet connection anyway, so no real loss.
Maybe any place you might play a LAN party has a fast Internet connection.

#52 QuantaCat

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 06:04 AM

Yeah but D2 levels weren't repetitive. Not unless you count playing many games repetitive.
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#53 Eric5h5

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 10:01 AM

View PostQuantaCat, on November 3rd 2007, 08:04 AM, said:

Yeah but D2 levels weren't repetitive. Not unless you count playing many games repetitive.

Eh?  D2 practically defines repetitive.

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#54 NAG

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 10:33 AM

You're going to run into repetitive stuff in any MMO or MMO like game due to the very nature of it. The social interaction is what makes it interesting (or a living hell).
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#55 MILBOP DIPPLEBERRY

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 11:09 AM

The trade-off for dull environments is having them be randomly-generated. At least HGL's are three dimensional and somewhat cool-looking as opposed to D2's flat crappy-looking levels.

#56 Tetsuya

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 01:12 PM

View PostEric5h5, on November 3rd 2007, 09:01 AM, said:

Eh?  D2 practically defines repetitive.

--Eric

seriously.

#57 QuantaCat

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Posted 04 November 2007 - 02:54 PM

I didnt find Diablo2 levels repetitive, on my first run through. Probably because they were short enough not to be annoying.

And I tried out Sacred Gold today, multiplayer. But it was sortof lacking in challenge. We should up the difficulty next time.
QC.


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#58 Naman

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Posted 04 November 2007 - 05:36 PM

View PostTetsuya, on November 2nd 2007, 10:07 PM, said:

you uh... never played Diablo, apparently.

the levels there were completely randomly generated.  And there were.... 5 tilesets?  Maybe 6.  

Lord of Destruction added a few more (two new interior and one exterior)

so your argument there doesnt hold water.

There was no "level design" in Diablo anymore than there is in Hellgate.  THe levels are still entirely randomly generated.

Well, I didn't ever play the original Diablo, but I played Diablo 2 far, far more than I'd like to admit to. >_> Diablo 2 had a lot more variation than Hellgate, so far at least. Diablo 2 had several different tilesets for each area, and you actually felt like you were in different places when you were playing. My beef with Hellgate (and to note, I still find it an enjoyable game, just kind of lackluster) is that there are a lot of overworld, steamtunnel, etc. levels in it, and they use the same tilesets, so it feels really repetitive until you hit an area that actually has its own unique tileset. (Such as the British Museum.)

#59 QuantaCat

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Posted 05 November 2007 - 01:42 AM

As far as I can tell, there are more unique places in D2 than there are in Hellgate. The entire "walhalla" style place in the second world was pretty cool. Floating stuff in space, that was a nice break from the desert. (and it reminded me of another game, forgot the title though)
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#60 Wumpus

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Posted 05 November 2007 - 04:00 AM

Amusingly enough, I got TWO invites to the HGL beta,  and I'm a PPC user. So I just sent them to two of my macbookpro owning friends who had a blast with it. I recently tried the demo on my roommates PC, and I had a great time with it. The Patch 0 apparently adds and fixes many things.

*EDIT*

Here's a link detailing everything in Patch 0 and the upcoming 0.1

http://hellgateguru....t=8774#patch0.1


Regarding the LAN aspect, (or rather the lack of it) it was not included for piracy reasons. There was a huge thread about it a long time back on the "unofficial" hellgate london forums. I had a few posts there, wishing for LAN, but the official word from Flaghship was they chose not to implement it for fear of piracy. There are some more details, but that was the gist of it.
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