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Civilization IV


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#1 -Nightmare-

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Posted 18 February 2005 - 10:09 AM

I don't know how many Civ 3 fans there are but I defienetly enjoy the game.  Firaxis has just anounced that Civilization IV is in devolopment. Now, of course it is going to be a while until it is out for PC and even more time if we are lucky enough for it to come to the mac.  Macsoft did port  Civ 3 over to mac though, so hopefully it will be the same situation with Civ IV.

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#2 dojoboy

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Posted 18 February 2005 - 08:32 PM

-Nightmare-, on February 18th 2005, 11:09 AM, said:

Macsoft did port  Civ 3 over to mac though, so hopefully it will be the same situation with Civ IV.

Hopefully.   ;)
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#3 Morrigan

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Posted 19 February 2005 - 07:55 AM

I'm already getting extra sleep now just in case Civ IV shows up for the mac in a couple of years :)

#4 MSosa01

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Posted 16 June 2005 - 07:07 PM

Well here are the screen shots, in case anybody missed it: http://www.gamespot....creenindex.html

Everything looks nice, I didn't think I would like it in 3D. However I hope there is an option to display the units in smaller sizes, as it ruins the realism of the world.
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#5 PeopleLikeFrank

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Posted 17 June 2005 - 02:22 AM

Man.. If my tanks can still be defeated be a spearman....
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#6 Morrigan

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Posted 17 June 2005 - 08:17 AM

nobody, on June 17th 2005, 02:22 AM, said:

Man.. If my tanks can still be defeated be a spearman....

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For play balance the designers are required to do 1 of 2 things with regard to the varied techs in the game... either they allow spearmen to beat tanks once in a while, or they give free techs to those cultures that fall behind. So if you're using jets, AI cultures should at least be getting prop planes. If you're using tanks, they should at least have cavalry. It's not realistic that the human player's tech would be more than a generation of weaponry ahead of another dominant culture. Word gets out, secrets get sold, weapons get marketed... And really, how much fun would it be if you could just pump tech up to M1A1 Abrahms and roll over everything you came up against that wasn't also the same tech level? Could a Sherman hurt an M1A1? No way.

All that said, I do think the spearman behind the fortified berm wins way too many engagements against 60 ton tanks :)

#7 PeopleLikeFrank

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Posted 17 June 2005 - 09:04 AM

Morrigan, on June 17th 2005, 09:17 AM, said:

...
All that said, I do think the spearman behind the fortified berm wins way too many engagements against 60 ton tanks :)

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Yeah, balance issues are tough, so I can understand the rationale. Nonetheless it remains frustrating, especially when there is such as discrepancy as to get in the way of suspension of disbelief.

I usually find that most of the opponents are not too far ahead or behind me in terms of tech advancement, but where I tend to upgrade or disband my units as necessary (usually trying to keep the minimum needed military presence), the AI will keep every stone-age warrior around until they're killed off. Thus the occasional frustration when stone axes or bronze spears manage to somehow outclass mechanized armour...
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#8 dojoboy

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Posted 17 June 2005 - 09:06 AM

I do expect we'll get cIV, but not for a while.  The PC version has an estimated release date of Oct./Nov. 2005.  If that holds true, and MacSoft ports it, we're probably looking at the summer of 2006.  I'm thinking, after what happened with CivIII, MacSoft would prefer to wait for all the PC patches and the long-term sales projections.  But then again, I could be completely wrong.

Personally, I'm not nearly as excited about cIV as I was CivIII.  This may be due to the other strategy games I have now that I didn't have while waiting on CivIII.  Also, like MSosa01, the unit size just seem silly to me - somewhat campy.  I know they're not to scale with the terrain in CivIII, but it doesn't seem so extreme in CivIII.  Referring governments, I'm not sure not having them is a good idea.  I do like how your settings determine your government style, but... .  Religion is a great addition.

If the gameplay holds true to the Civ series, then I'm likely to enjoy it very much.  I hope it'll run on my eMac.

Re: spearman and tanks -> that's got to be an urban legend.  I've never seen a spearman defeat a healthy tank.  A redlined tank?   Maybe after 3 or four spearmen, but you've got to figure that.  Just ask the British about the Zulus.
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#9 Sternum

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Posted 17 June 2005 - 09:41 AM

I don't understand the complaint regarding big units. Since when have they ever been to scale with the map?

#10 xcman22

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Posted 17 June 2005 - 10:58 AM

The Spearmen defeating Tanks is no myth. I wish it was...

#11 dojoboy

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Posted 17 June 2005 - 01:04 PM

Sternum, on June 17th 2005, 11:41 AM, said:

I don't understand the complaint regarding big units. Since when have they ever been to scale with the map?

dojoboy, on June 17th 2005, said:

I know they're not to scale with the terrain in CivIII, but it doesn't seem so extreme in CivIII.

It seems a little too skewed this time around is all.  Maybe it's the 3D graphics that make it so pronounced in cIV.
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#12 dojoboy

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Posted 17 June 2005 - 01:07 PM

xcman22, on June 17th 2005, 12:58 PM, said:

The Spearmen defeating Tanks is no myth. I wish it was...

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I honestly can say I have never witnessed a spearman defeat a healthy tank, ever.  A redlined tank, yes, but I don't feel that is unreasonable on occassion.
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#13 Biablo

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Posted 17 June 2005 - 04:20 PM

I'm glad someone created a Civ4 topic, because I need to vent. So far, it seems to be taking some of the better aspects from Alpha Centuari, ie government and diplomacy, which is excellent. But, the game itself is UGLY. It is quite possibly the ugliest thing I have ever seen. Ever. How could graphics go so wrong?
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#14 Belcarius

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Posted 17 June 2005 - 04:38 PM

Biablo, on June 18th 2005, 08:20 AM, said:

I'm glad someone created a Civ4 topic, because I need to vent. So far, it seems to be taking some of the better aspects from Alpha Centuari, ie government and diplomacy, which is excellent. But, the game itself is UGLY. It is quite possibly the ugliest thing I have ever seen. Ever. How could graphics go so wrong?

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I'm in love with those graphics. They're doing a great job of putting the world into 3D and making it look as authentic as possible. It does look a little dodgy where the grassland meets the plains, but on the whole it just looks so sweet!
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#15 Jard

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Posted 19 June 2005 - 12:01 AM

dojoboy, on June 17th 2005, 12:07 PM, said:

I honestly can say I have never witnessed a spearman defeat a healthy tank, ever.  A redlined tank, yes, but I don't feel that is unreasonable on occassion.

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You need to play more civ!  :D

In my experience given the right conditions (fortifications especially large cities) a healthy tank has about a 1 in 20 chance of losing to a spearman.  It is more pronounced with Mech Inf which seem to loose at around 1 in 10.  If you want to count the times the armor drops to 1 health and runs away then I am sure the numbers are much better for the spearman.

re: Graphics

I have never played any of the civ games for the graphics.  I do not think that I will be starting now!
Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win  -- Sun-Tzu "The Art of War"

#16 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 19 June 2005 - 05:07 AM

Yeah... Militia in CivI was actually pretty good at destroying tanks too! :)

I for one dont like the new mega-units too.. And I actually arent quite thrilled with the new graphics. I prefer high-quality 2D'ish graphics which blend in, then bad 3D graphics that seem out of proporsion..
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#17 dojoboy

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Posted 19 June 2005 - 07:11 AM

Jard, on June 19th 2005, 02:01 AM, said:

You need to play more civ!  :D

In my experience given the right conditions (fortifications especially large cities) a healthy tank has about a 1 in 20 chance of losing to a spearman.

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Hah!  Choose your weapon Sir Jard!   ;)

Maybe I'm just an excellent Field Marshal, sensing when there is a particularly well trained spearman before me, I wait for air support.   :D

But, I do wonder about the new combat "system."
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#18 Sternum

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Posted 19 June 2005 - 09:45 AM

I don't understand the appeal of 3D graphics in a turn-based strategy game. They're a huge waste of time and resources, and rarely add anything to the game aside from a little novelty. Look at HoMM IV, for example, or MoO III -- ugly 3D graphics that serve little or no purpose. It's like putting feathers on a monkey.

Even the 3D graphics in Warcraft III were kind of meaningless. You'd swivel the camera around once or twice, but ultimately leave it at the same angle and pitch as it would have been if it had just been 2D sprites.

#19 bobbob

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Posted 19 June 2005 - 01:19 PM

Sternum, on June 19th 2005, 08:45 AM, said:

Even the 3D graphics in Warcraft III were kind of meaningless.

Sprites are a bit of a pain to make and store, and WC3 put the 3D resources to good use for cutscenes.

#20 Mister Mumbles

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 12:55 AM

-Nightmare-, on February 19th 2005, 01:09 AM, said:

Macsoft did port  Civ 3 over to mac though, so hopefully it will be the same situation with Civ IV.

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Actually the concern doesn't really lie with Macsoft here. Moreso with Take Two which signed the new publishing rights for Firaxis which games was formerly published by Atari. (and I still want to call them Infogrames)

Sternum, on June 20th 2005, 12:45 AM, said:

I don't understand the appeal of 3D graphics in a turn-based strategy game. They're a huge waste of time and resources, and rarely add anything to the game aside from a little novelty. Look at HoMM IV, for example, or MoO III -- ugly 3D graphics that serve little or no purpose. It's like putting feathers on a monkey.

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I'm with you on that one Sternum. Sure, I would have no problem if they wanted to make the new Civ a bit better looking, but I also believe that a series like this has no need of three dimensions. That said any turn-based strategy game series that moved from 2D to 3D makes a move for the worse in my mind. Yes, it may look nice, but it can very well detract from the actual gameplay, which is what these games are all about.

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