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Radeon X800 Xt Mac Edition


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#21 wymer100

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 02:01 PM

rob_ART, on January 5th 2005, 12:00 PM, said:

I changed the Halo FSAA 4X graph to show results from FSAA Multi 4X instead of the FSAA Super 4X.

As you can see, the X800 XT still blew the doors off the GeForce 6800s:
http://www.barefeats.com/radx800.html

ATI Displays' "FSAA (Multi) 4X" override gave the same numbers as using Halo's "4X Sampling."

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Would it be possible for you to benchmark one of the games on a slower machine to see how much difference the CPU makes? Basically, are the games CPU or GPU bound?

#22 the Battle Cat

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 02:51 PM

Brad Oliver, on January 5th 2005, 11:47 AM, said:

Endymion, on January 5th 2005, 11:08 AM, said:

I can't say I'm sure that I'm very happy to be wrong.

Can I say that you can say that you're not sure that you're not happy? ;)

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I'm happy to say I can say that you can say that he can say that he's not sure he's not happy.
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#23 tman

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 03:06 PM

the Battle Cat, on January 5th 2005, 08:51 PM, said:

Brad Oliver, on January 5th 2005, 11:47 AM, said:

Endymion, on January 5th 2005, 11:08 AM, said:

I can't say I'm sure that I'm very happy to be wrong.

Can I say that you can say that you're not sure that you're not happy? ;)

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I'm happy to say I can say that you can say that he can say that he's not sure he's not happy.

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Say What? :huh:

#24 Whaleman

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 03:21 PM

tman, on January 5th 2005, 10:06 PM, said:

the Battle Cat, on January 5th 2005, 08:51 PM, said:

Brad Oliver, on January 5th 2005, 11:47 AM, said:

Endymion, on January 5th 2005, 11:08 AM, said:

I can't say I'm sure that I'm very happy to be wrong.

Can I say that you can say that you're not sure that you're not happy? ;)

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I'm happy to say I can say that you can say that he can say that he's not sure he's not happy.

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Say What? :huh:

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Can i say that you're not happy to say that you don't get that they're happy to say that they can say that he can say that he's not so sure he's not happy?
You shouldn't ask yourself such worthless questions. Aim higher. Try this: why am I here? Why do I exist, and what is my purpose in this universe?

(Answers: 'Cause you are. 'Cause you do. 'Cause I got a shotgun, and you ain't got one.)

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#25 atfault

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 03:45 PM

I've talked to ATI twice today. Both times were bad news. The first call at 09:30 EST they were unaware about the press release on their own site. I had to show the guy on the phone where it was. He then told me 'It will be available sometime" Sometime? Riiiight.

Second call 16:30 EST, press release and product info on ATI's site, they are somewhat aware about the Mac X800 card, but tells me that they had to take the online store page for the Mac X800 down, because they are selling too many of them to keep up. When I remind him that it was just announced today he tells me it has been on back order for ever and not to expect it for months.

I honestly thing they are completely clueless about the Mac version of the card still. By the way, there is no X800 store page there for the PC card either and a search of their site using 'x800' doesn't find a video card. I can believe that the PC card is still that popular, but I'm convinced those Canadians are hiding the Mac ones for themselves.

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#26 tthiel

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 03:52 PM

Well its been announced and I must have one but has it been released?  It does not appear to be for sale yet.

rob_ART, on January 5th 2005, 11:41 AM, said:

At 6AM EDT today, ATI released the Radeon X800 XT Mac Edition.

I posted a review of it compared to the GeForce 6800 Ultra and others:
http://www.barefeats.com/radx800.html

Summary: It ROCKS!

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#27 wymer100

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 04:41 PM

Whaleman, on January 5th 2005, 03:21 PM, said:

tman, on January 5th 2005, 10:06 PM, said:

the Battle Cat, on January 5th 2005, 08:51 PM, said:

Brad Oliver, on January 5th 2005, 11:47 AM, said:

Endymion, on January 5th 2005, 11:08 AM, said:

I can't say I'm sure that I'm very happy to be wrong.

Can I say that you can say that you're not sure that you're not happy? ;)

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I'm happy to say I can say that you can say that he can say that he's not sure he's not happy.

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Say What? :huh:

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Can i say that you're not happy to say that you don't get that they're happy to say that they can say that he can say that he's not so sure he's not happy?

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Maybe. :P

#28 Voden05

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 09:03 PM

atfault, on January 5th 2005, 02:45 PM, said:

I can believe that the PC card is still that popular, but I'm convinced those Canadians are hiding the Mac ones for themselves.

Remember, I'm atFault

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You're right, the X800 on the PC side is the "loser" this round. X800 XT PE's are extremly hard to come by, and the only people buying X800 pro's are people modding them to XT PEs. The 6800GT/Ultra are ton's more popular on the PC side.

#29 KirinRiotCrash

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 10:37 PM

atfault, on January 5th 2005, 04:45 PM, said:

I've talked to ATI twice today. Both times were bad news. The first call at 09:30 EST they were unaware about the press release on their own site. I had to show the guy on the phone where it was. He then told me 'It will be available sometime" Sometime? Riiiight.

Second call 16:30 EST, press release and product info on ATI's site, they are somewhat aware about the Mac X800 card, but tells me that they had to take the online store page for the Mac X800 down, because they are selling too many of them to keep up. When I remind him that it was just announced today he tells me it has been on back order for ever and not to expect it for months.

I honestly thing they are completely clueless about the Mac version of the card still. By the way, there is no X800 store page there for the PC card either and a search of their site using 'x800' doesn't find a video card. I can believe that the PC card is still that popular, but I'm convinced those Canadians are hiding the Mac ones for themselves.

Remember, I'm atFault

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I remembered calling ATI a few accounts when I was troubleshooting a Radeon 9700 Pro for the PC. For a majority of those calls, it's always some guy or girl with an Arab accent. Last I checked, ATI was in Canada, not somewhere in the Middle East. But yes, sometimes, they can be weird. At one point, they got screwy with the version numbers on their Catalyst drivers. "Okay, website 4-point-this while guy on phone tells me 4-point-that ..." weird ...

#30 Bastich

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 01:03 AM

atfault, on January 5th 2005, 04:45 PM, said:

I can believe that the PC card is still that popular, but I'm convinced those Canadians are hiding the Mac ones for themselves.

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MWAHAahahaha<coff>haaaa...

Actually, all you need is a snowmobile and/or pack of sled dogs, and you can pick one up from ATI directly. Or wait a couple weeks when Tim Horton's will be giving them away with every purchase of a large coffee and a 15-pack of Timbits.

B)

#31 atfault

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 08:26 AM

Bastich, on January 6th 2005, 02:03 AM, said:

Actually, all you need is a snowmobile and/or pack of sled dogs, and you can pick one up from ATI directly. Or wait a couple weeks when Tim Horton's will be giving them away with every purchase of a large coffee and a 15-pack of Timbits.
Yes, ATI is in Canada, Markham Ontario, to be precise. I'm actually not far from there and even offered to go down to pick it up from their doorstep. No dice. I don't have a dogteam or a Bombardier sled so maybe I'm not Canadian enough for them, eh. The X800 with Timbits is news to me, I'm gonna keep my eye open for that one. Best deal going yet.

As for Arabian tech support, I'm not suprised, 20% of our population is immigrant. I don't really care what accent I get on the phone as long as I can understand them and they know what they are talking about. This goes for English speaking Canadians too.

#32 PeopleLikeFrank

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 08:38 AM

atfault, on January 6th 2005, 09:26 AM, said:

As for Arabian tech support, I'm not suprised, 20% of our population is immigrant. I don't really care what accent I get on the phone as long as I can understand them and they know what they are talking about. This goes for English speaking Canadians too.

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Many companies outsource their tech support. I've gotten quite a few Indian accents on the phone when calling American companies.

That, and the middle-eastern population in my computer science courses here in Montréal is definitely higher than 20%, so either way I would expect to hear some accents over the phone. ;)
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#33 WSTE_M

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 08:39 AM

Does anyone know a store in Europe that sells these cards ?
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#34 Lucian

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 10:41 AM

Radeon X800 XT Review @ IMG
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#35 tthiel

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 12:53 PM

According to the review on Anandtech it was because;
Priced at $499, the 256MB X800 XT Mac Edition is a lower clocked version of the PC X800 XT.  While the PC X800 XT runs at a 500MHz core clock with 1GHz memory, the X800 XT Mac Edition runs at a 475MHz core clock while keeping the same memory clock.  The reason behind the lower core clock speed is simple, ATI’s not making a whole lot of X800 XT Mac Edition boards, so they want to make sure they are as high yielding as possible.  In order to meet the $499 price point they had to slightly lower the core clock speed.  We did promptly inform ATI that Mac folks don’t like their cards to be clocked lower than the PC equivalents but given the small clock difference, we’d much rather have a cheaper card.

http://anandtech.com...doc.aspx?i=2313

wymer100, on January 5th 2005, 03:36 PM, said:

Any word as to why the mac version of the X800XT is clocked at 475MHz and not at 500MHz like the PC version? Don't get me wrong since this is going to be a great card. I doubt that it would make much of a difference in gameplay, but it just seems a bit odd.

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#36 converted2truth

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 03:17 PM

So... correct me if i'm wrong, the X800 card is better than the 6800 because FSAA/AF implementation for the 6800 sucks?  or because 6800 architecture doesn't allow for efficient FSAA/AF?

I've heard alot of talk on the PC side that that X800 is based on a dead architecture, and so the 6800's are better.  Do the 6800's have more programmability options?  anything that would give them a lead in the future (over the X800)?

Right now in World of Warcraft (on my mac), Ansiotropic Filtering (AF) is turned off.  My question is, When this option is turned on, will the X800 leave the 6800's in the dust?  Is the 6800 just not a good card for using advanced features? like FSAA/AF?
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#37 rob_ART

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Posted 07 January 2005 - 12:17 AM

According to the Mac PR Specialist at ATI, they have "piles" of the cards ready to ship. They are waiting for the boxes. They will be adding the card to the ATI online store next week. We're talking "days" not "weeks" or "months."

As for running the X800 on slower machines, I'll try to find a G5/1.6 or 1.8 Single CPU model to run some tests on so I can show what games are CPU bound and which are not.

I did runs some tests on a G5/2.5 at a lower resolution (1280x1024). Comparing the results of  the stock 9600 XT with the X800 shows the following gains:

230% for Quake3 (Max settings)
40% for UT2004 Botmatch (Max settings)
247% for Halo (Advanced Shaders, FSAA Multi 4X, Everything "on" or "high")

That tells me that Quake3 and Halo are definitely not CPU bound while UT2004 tends to be.
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#38 Lucian

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Posted 07 January 2005 - 02:50 AM

converted2truth, on January 6th 2005, 09:17 PM, said:

So... correct me if i'm wrong, the X800 card is better than the 6800 because FSAA/AF implementation for the 6800 sucks?  or because 6800 architecture doesn't allow for efficient FSAA/AF?

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The X800 XT is faster because it has better drivers. In the UT2004 and Halo test, the ARB OpenGL FSAA path was used so it was an apples to apples comparison. I can only attribute the 6800's poor performance to subpar drivers.

converted2truth said:

I've heard alot of talk on the PC side that that X800 is based on a dead architecture, and so the 6800's are better.  Do the 6800's have more programmability options?  anything that would give them a lead in the future (over the X800)?

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Where did you hear that the R420 is a "dead" architecture? And what do you mean by that? The graphics core is still the latest available and on the PC (and Mac).

converted2truth said:

Right now in World of Warcraft (on my mac), Ansiotropic Filtering (AF) is turned off.  My question is, When this option is turned on, will the X800 leave the 6800's in the dust?  Is the 6800 just not a good card for using advanced features? like FSAA/AF?

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There is currently no method to enable AF with the 6800-series. You can use the OpenGL Overrides with ATI cards. AF doesn't incur a big performance hit, so I doubt this would differentiate the cards by much. But after playing with AF on in WoW, there is no way I would go back to playing without it.
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#39 placebo

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Posted 07 January 2005 - 09:30 AM

Okay, a few questions:

-Is it safe to add those 25MHz back onto the clockspeed via ATIcellerator, seeing as the cooling system is the same as the 500MHz PC verson?

-Where the heck can I buy one of these? Should I place an order at an online retailer, even though they don't have a picture or description up? Or are they not prepared to take order, and my money would be wasted?

#40 wymer100

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Posted 07 January 2005 - 10:12 AM

Lucian, on January 7th 2005, 02:50 AM, said:

Where did you hear that the R420 is a "dead" architecture? And what do you mean by that? The graphics core is still the latest available and on the PC (and Mac).

From what I understand, the 6800 is a bigger technological leap than the X800 from their preceeding GPUs. The 6800 has some more advanced features like Shader Model 3 support that is lacking in the X800. That being said, it does make much difference because I don't think many games support this feature, yet. I wouldn't consider the R420 architecture dead by any means, but I think they are referring to the fact that the X800 does not have all of the cutting edge features of the 6800.