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World of Warcraft - a MUST for Mac gamers


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#61 Whaleman

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 06:18 AM

So, if any game added an #IRC client, you'd pay $15 extra a month for the sense of community? Even though they removed half of what makes a good RPG good? Heck, we have an #IRC chat, and a great sense of community... and even less of a game! We should charge $20 a month for IMG.... *grumble*

Because that's a lot what I feel like when I play WoW. I'm playing a multiplayer game with 4 friends, and chat with some more. And because of this, I will be forced to pay a lot more and lose all story development, since I'm not participating it it. I just get the story told to me, do a silly quest that does nothing, and the go on to the next.

The sad thing is that I'm enjoying it in the case of WoW.

I've always wanted an RPG in the world of Warcraft. But since I'm not gonna get one, WoW is the second best thing. It's really sad that I will have to pay so much for a game that's far from the best game I ever played.

But I've done what can. I've suggested a  normal RPG game too many times... and I also suggested adding population dynamics to get some variation in the quests. If respawn times were dependant of the number of animals existing in the world, there could be automatic quests generated to help maintain balance.

But they keep to the static world. So I guess that's what I'm stuck with.

Whenever they'll let me on the US servers again...
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#62 LMOP

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 07:17 AM

(I'm just using your post to illustrate a point; I'm not challenging you specifically, Gromit!)

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You are doing everything for points, and nothing more. It is painfully obvious that the NPC's are automatons replaying the same scenes over and over. The illusion of this being a real, organic world is paper thin.

And I'm not saying a more persistent game world would be easy to design. It wouldn't. It would take a tremendous amount of ingenuity to do so.  But it would also keep the game from feeling so hollow.
You have to consider this from Blizzard's point-of-view. They are trying to sell people a communal gaming experience that is the same for everbody (character development aside) no matter who they are, where they are or when they play it. People would be less likely to buy/play a game if they knew the game had been out for a month and all the simple quests had already been resolved by other players. Or perhaps there was a bias in the numbers of people joining each side and the Alliance had subsequently trounced the Horde. By necessity, the game has to have a largely static aspect to it. As you say, achieving this whilst also allowing permanence of actions is non-trivial at best. The only way I've seen this "solved" (which in my opinion is even worse) is by regular World resets. Since this is a fantasy role-playing game after all, I can only suggest that people suspend their disbelief and look past the static nature of the game :-D

Now what Blizzard could do is have a permanently contested region that players fight over which would give them the best of both worlds. Again, I'm not entirely sure here but it sounds like their implementation of Battlegrounds may be exactly this - or it might simply be an enhanced PvP arena. Ideally such an area would be slap bang in the middle of the various parties and a largish island does indeed exist if you look at the World Map.

----

But for me, it's the pricing model which will probably not see me playing. A pay-per-play alternative as some have suggested would have been nice but they can end up being even more expensive so ideally there would be a choice between flat-rate and pay-per-play pricing models. As it stands though, I think the one month initial pay/play period is too short given I'd have just bought the game. It basically forces me to play it immediately and in a dedicated fashion; no-one should define how and when I play a game. I'd rather pay a little more up front and get a two month "free" period, followed by a longer term trickle payment system. But that's me. I'm well aware that there are lots of people who will be more than willing to go with Blizzard's current pricing model and that, given server load, Blizzard simply doesn't need people like me anyway. I'll wait until the bugs have been ironed out and the prices come down and if they don't, well if I'm honest about it, I'm not that bothered (no offense to all the Warcraft fans).

#63 bookman

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 09:22 AM

Lots of hardcore gamers I know rarely spend more than a month on a game anyway, as there is always something new beckoning for their attention. $65 for 2 months of WoW compares favorably to the 15-20 hours one might get out of Doom 3 for $55.
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#64 placebo

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 11:38 AM

I bought UT2004 for $40, and it's given me 2000+ hours of entertainment for... $40! Hey!

#65 DaveyJJ

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 12:05 PM

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I bought UT2004 for $40, and it's given me 2000+ hours of entertainment for... $40! Hey!

And I've had Diablo II and LoD on my hard drives (two copies purchased) since the day they came out. So I'd say I'm way ahead, too, on the WoW pricing scheme.

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#66 almondblight

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 12:43 PM

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Because that's a lot what I feel like when I play WoW. I'm playing a multiplayer game with 4 friends, and chat with some more. And because of this, I will be forced to pay a lot more and lose all story development, since I'm not participating it it. I just get the story told to me, do a silly quest that does nothing, and the go on to the next.

Agreed.  I've yet to hear anyone give a reason as to why having a persistant world or having it be massively multiplayer actually enhances the game.  All I've really seen so far is it's ok that the game is worse, because it's an MMORPG.

Not trying to be combative, it just seems like this game would be a lot more fun and a lot cheaper if it were done Diablo II style, with people setting up their own games.

#67 musicdisciple

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Posted 01 December 2004 - 10:01 AM

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Also, another really weird bug was that everything lacked a hitbox. I could just run through people. WTF.

Try imagining what would happen if there wasn't. People would form guilds just to lock persons in by blocking their path. Or imagine what it would be like when 200 persons hearth back to the same in right before a server shutdown, or how it would be getting out of there right after. It's by design, and a damn good decision.

Good design, but occasionally amusing side effects.
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#68 Squozen

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Posted 15 December 2004 - 11:07 PM

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I'm guessing everyone defines "casual gamer" differently cause there ain't no game that I play for an hour or two a month (or maybe even three or four) that's worth CDN$220 in the first year. That's my definition of casual.

By my definition, somebody who games for an hour a month isn't a gamer, in the same way that somebody who jogs around the block once a month isn't an athlete.

Complaining about World of Warcraft because you barely play games is like me complaining about the price of Microsoft Office because I only need to write a document outside of email once every two years.  I use Textpad.  Maybe you should try Chess?

#69 waam

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Posted 16 December 2004 - 10:03 AM

um, not exactly bud.

you have a right to complain about WoW because it's costing you $15 a month.

#70 the Battle Cat

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Posted 16 December 2004 - 10:09 AM

The forum changes seem to have calmed down.  I am going to let sleeping dogs lie but when I see an active topic in the wrong forum I'm going to have to move it.  I hope nobody is too greatly inconvenienced by all of this shuffling.
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#71 a2daj

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Posted 16 December 2004 - 12:50 PM

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um, not exactly bud.

you have a right to complain about WoW because it's costing you $15 a month.

It's only costing someone $15 a month if they're subscribing to the game, it's past their "free" month, and they opted to pay per month rather than one of the bulk deals.  If someone isn't playing WoW, and they didn't buy it, then it's not costing them $15 a month.  But they'll still have a right to complain about WoW pricing.  Anyone has the right to complain about WoW pricing.  But there's only so much complaining that others will put up with before they start ignoring the complaints.
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#72 MacADDICT

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Posted 16 December 2004 - 06:27 PM

WoW is one of the best games i ahve ever played, simple and VERY addictive and so what if its a static world get over it thats the only compaint outside price you guys mention.

#73 mjankor

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 06:10 PM

Hmmm

Having read this thread makes me glad I found Vendetta Online before WoW became available. It has twitch combat where your personal skill level, not your characters is the most important, a persistant universe with some dynamic elements and a great community.

It's also updated every week or so with cool new toys. Just before christmas we received mining and bounties in an update.

Best of all it's only 9.99 per month and it's a free download.

#74 Joe M.

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 08:50 PM

I was in the Vendetta Online beta. Has it improved since then? To say I was completely underwhelmed would be an understatement.

#75 mjankor

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Posted 07 January 2005 - 12:22 AM

Joe M., on January 6th 2005, 07:50 PM, said:

I was in the Vendetta Online beta. Has it improved since then? To say I was completely underwhelmed would be an understatement.

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I don't know, I don't know what the beta was like.

There's a trial. Give it a shot and see.

#76 machineman

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Posted 07 January 2005 - 12:29 PM

Gafgarion, on November 25th 2004, 02:51 PM, said:

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Interesting design choice. I imagine it has to do with their desire to cater to more casual players. It wouldn't be much fun if you didn't play that often and each time you logged on, the world had changed in major ways.

Yes, but then why even charge a monthly fee or have a persistent world?

$15/month does not cater to casual gamers, nor does the fact that they won't be able to quest with their friends because of level differences.

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The fee isn't for a persistent world, they never said that.

Quite frankly that's the best feature of the game.... I had the horror of playing Star Wars Galaxies, only finding out that SO MUCH has changed that I will never get to experience, I was bummed. Plus the landscape was littered with player houses, guild halls, etc.

Blizzard made the right move on this....