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World of Warcraft - a MUST for Mac gamers


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#41 Gafgarion

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Posted 26 November 2004 - 02:19 PM

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Will the madness ever end.

it's certainly not madness. People have made the assertion that WoW is the best game ever made and that it's a must-have for Mac gamers. It's only logical that people would voice their opinions when such a wild claim is made.

#42 Joe M.

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Posted 26 November 2004 - 03:20 PM

Perhaps you feel it necessary to reiterate your point over and over, but to me...it's a little nutty.  :-D

#43 hambone

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Posted 26 November 2004 - 04:18 PM

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I think the problem for a lot of us is "what is the ~$150 a year going towards?"  If it is a static world and PvP just means 60 characters bashing each other, it seems like a lot of the game could be done, and done better, as a solo-rpg with online capabilities (a big Diablo II).

a lot of people look at this game mechanistically. which is fine, because MMOs tend to lend themselves to that perspective at first glance.

but when you've got a world as lovingly and handcrafted as is WoW, you've got to step back a little bit and take a look at it qualitatively.

i like playing WoW because it really is a world to explore. i do a lot of stopping and just looking around, admiring the views and the work that went into creating such an amazing little place. i like to stop and chat with people, ask them where they are from, what they need, whatever.

have you ever stopped and just enjoyed the dynamic lighting? have you ever thought about how freakin well done the color palletes are? stopped to think how good the building architecture is, or how totally seamless the landscapes are? you can look at the game like a machine if you want to, but there are other levels to enjoy it on as well.

i probably only spend half my time killing stuff or going on quests. the other half, i'm just enjoying the world as toy. and a fun toy it is.

So basically you want to pay $15 a month for a vacation tour in a digitally created world? I know the world is beautiful, but since this is almost exactly what I want to do, I don't see the need of an MMO to do it. Had they made it a normal style RPG, I could enjoy the world all I wanted, when I wanted, without having to pay extra for it every month I wanted to do it.

And to spin on what Malus said. Grouping in WoW is really odd. I often find it faster to level up going solo on easy quests than grouping up for the harder ones. And I really hate that when I group up with random people for a quest, a majority of the members would have been kicked out of #IMG for disrespect of the english language.

What fantasy world are you living in where  you think that a game where Jimmy Joe Bob over in California can completely alter the world you play in, making it unfamiliar and unplayabe, is a good idea?

Also, do you even begin to have a concept of how incredibly hard it would to write code that took something lke that into account?

It just isnt feasible, Whale.  

Either you like MMO's, of which WoW is probably the best one ive played, or you don't.  

Stop complaining about them not making the game something that isnt possible to make.

T

I think the point is that all he infrastructure and high monthly fees are wasted. There is no reason why you need that much money for a game thats mostly static and is pretty much all soloing.

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Yeah! Is this an IMG record?

#44 Whaleman

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Posted 26 November 2004 - 04:27 PM

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Yeah! Is this an IMG record?

Nope. Some have been at least twice as long, if not 3-4 times.
You shouldn't ask yourself such worthless questions. Aim higher. Try this: why am I here? Why do I exist, and what is my purpose in this universe?

(Answers: 'Cause you are. 'Cause you do. 'Cause I got a shotgun, and you ain't got one.)

***END MESSAGE***

#45 Atticus

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Posted 26 November 2004 - 04:31 PM

Sniff.

Sniff.

I think I smell sour "I wish I had more money so I could play WoW" grapes in this thread. ;-)

Atticus

#46 Whaleman

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Posted 26 November 2004 - 04:34 PM

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Sniff.

Sniff.

I think I smell sour "I wish I had more money so I could play WoW" grapes in this thread. ;-)

Atticus

Actually, I can afford it, will pay for it, and play it.... as soon as I can play on the US servers. But it will still be far from the greatest game ever and still have tons of flaws. But it's an RPG set in the Warcraft universe... and I love that Idea a bit too much. Too bad they made it an MMO.
You shouldn't ask yourself such worthless questions. Aim higher. Try this: why am I here? Why do I exist, and what is my purpose in this universe?

(Answers: 'Cause you are. 'Cause you do. 'Cause I got a shotgun, and you ain't got one.)

***END MESSAGE***

#47 Atticus

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Posted 26 November 2004 - 05:55 PM

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Sniff.

Sniff.

I think I smell sour "I wish I had more money so I could play WoW" grapes in this thread. ;-)

Atticus

Actually, I can afford it, will pay for it, and play it.... as soon as I can play on the US servers. But it will still be far from the greatest game ever and still have tons of flaws. But it's an RPG set in the Warcraft universe... and I love that Idea a bit too much. Too bad they made it an MMO.

I'm gonna play it! But I won't like it! I'm tellin' you right now, Jerry, I'm not gonna like it!

You IMG guys are killin' me. :-)

CU ONLINE, OH RELUCTANT COMPLAINERS. Look for me--Attirex the Dwarf Paladin! on the Whisperwind server! also a member of the Reservoir Dogcows.

Atticus

#48 Whaleman

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Posted 26 November 2004 - 06:03 PM

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I'm gonna play it! But I won't like it! I'm tellin' you right now, Jerry, I'm not gonna like it!

Actually, if you read my words correctly without twisting them, that would be "I'm gonna play it! It could be helluva lot better! I'm telling you right now, Bork, I still kinda enjoy it!"

You don't seriously expect me for pay for something I don't like the least do you? I love the world of Warcraft. I just wish they had made an even better game of it instead of a dumbed down money-cow.
You shouldn't ask yourself such worthless questions. Aim higher. Try this: why am I here? Why do I exist, and what is my purpose in this universe?

(Answers: 'Cause you are. 'Cause you do. 'Cause I got a shotgun, and you ain't got one.)

***END MESSAGE***

#49 gromit

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Posted 26 November 2004 - 08:37 PM

I played Shadowbane, and I canceled my subscription after a month or so.  I played the WOW open beta for a couple of weeks, and I'm not going to buy the retail game.

WOW is beautiful, and exploring the whole world was a little tempting, but the gameplay I found less than compelling.  The mechanics are pretty well implemented, it just seems that from an enjoyment standpoint the core concept is bankrupt. As someone alluded earlier, it is too much like an amusement park.  You can ride the rides over and over, if you are this tall or above, hell you even have to "buy tickets" by taking quests from NPC's who spout the same lines to each customer who comes up, and then you go stand in line if it is a more popular ride.  It certainly doesn't help that the game is based around the traditional stat-pumping, which, like gambling, appeals to some little compulsive demon inside me but never actually feels any more fulfilling than pushing a lever for the occasional piece of cheese.  I think it is a lame way of tracking progress in a game and demonstrates a severe lack of imagination.  I found these issues less painful in WOW than in Shadowbane (and I hear they are even worse in games like EQ), but less tedium is still tedium, i.e. not something I want to buy a subscription for.

Nothing against those who dig the game, of course.  I would just warn potential buyers, if you have the slightest tendencies toward compulsive behavior (and you know who you are), stay away from this game.  Once you get past the beautiful graphics (and I can't overstate how richly detailed the world is) compulsion seems to be the only itch WOW really scratches, and the game demands more hours than many otherwise productive folks can afford to put in.

#50 NeoWolf

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Posted 26 November 2004 - 09:30 PM

Comparing WoW and Shadowbane just seems ridiculous. I got Shadowbane when it was released, played and largely enjoyed it for a few months but largely fell out of interest. Now I'm playing WoW after having played the beta and although I can't say for sure, I'll probably enjoy this much longer. This isn't because Shadowbane sucks mind you. It was a blast and for the grounds of PvP probably the single best mmorpg I've ever played. However that ultimately didn't appeal to me as much as I suspected it would. I find myself enjoying exploring Azeroth to be much more enjoyable. I enjoy the quests, an outlet for experience that doesn't always involve killing and more killing. Sure world's a little static but I still suspect Blizzard might do more to progress the story for everyone. I'm playing it as a massively shared experience and in that light I think it's a great MMORPG. It doesn't have the same point as Shadowbane and that's my point. Shadowbane, once you get past the beginning is largely a player run world. If you like the idea of large scale online politics and warfare, it's right up your alley. If you want a rich world to explore with your friends, WoW is a much better choice.

They cater to completely different kinds of gamers really. No game is gonna be for everyone.  :roll:  Just enjoy what you're enjoying and leave it at that.

#51 Snypah Nynjah

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Posted 26 November 2004 - 10:03 PM

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What RPGs currently have dedicated 64-player multiplayer servers online 24/7?
Haze.  

Haze 2 has just begun (uses NWN SoU).

Where to begin:http://haze.1d4.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2860

24/7 RP Server.

Where have you been Gaf :)?

Shameless plug is now over.

#52 G4Jedi

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Posted 26 November 2004 - 10:14 PM

I don't doubt it's a decent game (maybe not the best on earth), but should I decide on purchasing it in the future, ultimately I'd go with the game card thing. I've never really played an MMORPG before. Simply the uncertainty of buying something unique that my Mac is questionable to handle, is what keeps me from running out this instant. That, and two other games I'm working to finish, not to mention X-Mas around the corner (got to get shopping soon)... Posted Image

#53 bookman

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Posted 26 November 2004 - 10:21 PM

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Certainly not worth $15 a month in its current state.

In your opinion - in my opinion, it is.
Work: MacBook - 2.4 Ghz Core 2 Duo - 4GB RAM - X3100 graphics.
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#54 Rev-O

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Posted 26 November 2004 - 10:29 PM

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If you have not yet got this game, RUN out and get it as soon as possible. It is completely accessible to the casual gamer (which I am) and the quality is unmatched.
<snip>
Bill

So WoW is a non persistant world, that I could essentially play as a single player RPG... except one that is massively expensive?
Sorry, not interested in the slightest.
I'm sure it is expansive. I'm sure it is nifty. However, Morrowind was expansive and nifty, and wasn't $15 bucks a month to play. Yes, I know, it's all about online play, and forming guilds, and whatever.
Once again, not interested in the slightest.
If Blizzard took WoW, and released it on a Dvd as a single player rpg without the need for the online component and charged $50 for it, yah I'd buy it in a heart beat. And 6 months down the road, released a massive expansion pack for it for another $50, I'd eventually buy that one too, and so on.
I'd rather my money goes towards the development of the game, and not towards maintaining an internet service.

#55 JGabrielli

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Posted 27 November 2004 - 10:53 AM

I think the assumption that Blizzard will change nothing in content over time, is probably incorrect.  There will probably be paid for expansions, but there's likely every chance that there will also be content drive elements to the game, story shifts and changes.  I think the issue some people are having is that THEY they players will not have direct input into the layout of the game world, like in SB or SWG.

In other words it's not a player run economy, it's not populated by player cities.  My response is ... so what.  Having played both of those other games extensively, for me player born content is overrated (I've seen lots of good craftsmen and leaders simply burn out).  Moreover from a purely fun gaming point of view, I found most of the "duties" of playing games like SWG and SB to be tedious in the extreme.  I've run guilds, and been on the council of some good sized ones, and all in all it's a sucky thankless job.  

I honestly find WoW's shift from that paradigm refreshing, and so far I like it for me.  People may feel differently, that's their right, but I've been playing MMORPGs since their inception, and for me personally I've grown sick of overly complicated games that feel more like jobs rather than entertainment.  WoW's perfect for my lifestyle and needs.

I cancelled by SB account 2 days after I bought and played WoW.  Anyway them's my $0.02, it ain't objective, just my opinion, but I'm happy with WoW and like it, it's easily the BEST roll out of an MMORPG I've ever had the pleasure to experience, including UO, AO, DaOC, SB, and SWG. As grandma used to say... to each his own kid...
Joe

#56 Fuzz

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Posted 27 November 2004 - 11:00 AM

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I'd rather my money goes towards the development of the game, and not towards maintaining an internet service.

I agree with you wholeheartedly, except on this issue.  Blizzard has always kept improving upon their games and releasing patches with updated content (albeit slow in the case of Diablo II).  I do hope they keep up their tradition of great work.

I wish WoW had say, an Open B.net option.  Where you could play single player and join "mini-servers" (maybe 64 players max) to play online, if you so desire.  However, functions such as GMs would not be available, and cheating would be somewhat tolerated, as would other unacceptable behavior.  Hell, even a smaller server would be desirable, as long as I am able to play with a small group of my friends every now and then.  Just my opinion, though.

Of course, this would most likely lead to a loss of players who could care less about stuff like that, and therefore a loss in revenue, so I doubt it will happen.

#57 gromit

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Posted 27 November 2004 - 11:13 AM

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In other words it's not a player run economy, it's not populated by player cities. My response is ... so what.

For me it's not even this.  It's that you are tasked with killing the bandits who are preying on a farm, you kill them, get some trinket, then you come back in an hour and the same bandits are still preying on the same farm.  The only progress is pumping stats and getting access to new, similarly pointless quests.  You never really save the farm, or reduce the threat of bear attacks, or clear the kobold mines, and there would be no consequences for the world if you didn't bother to carry out these quests in the first place.  You are doing everything for points, and nothing more.  It is painfully obvious that the NPC's are automatons replaying the same scenes over and over.  The illusion of this being a real, organic world is paper thin.

And I'm not saying a more persistent game world would be easy to design.  It wouldn't.  It would take a tremendous amount of ingenuity to do so.  But it would also keep the game from feeling so hollow.

#58 placebo

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Posted 27 November 2004 - 11:27 AM

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Yeah! Is this an IMG record?

Nope. Some have been at least twice as long, if not 3-4 times.
Yeah, I recall getting into a huge pissing contest with somebody about Halo, and each time I quoted our battle, it added half of a page or more to the thread.

#59 Rev-O

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Posted 27 November 2004 - 05:43 PM

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I'd rather my money goes towards the development of the game, and not towards maintaining an internet service.

I agree with you wholeheartedly, except on this issue.  Blizzard has always kept improving upon their games and releasing patches with updated content (albeit slow in the case of Diablo II).  I do hope they keep up their tradition of great work.
<snip>

Don't get me wrong. I'm all for patches, updates, and added content. I like Nwn for exactly these reasons. I will gladly fork out money to a company that is going to continue to support and refine a product. What I don't like is paying a subscribtion fee to play a game. Part of that fee is going towards patches, updates, and added content. But I would guess that the majority of that monthly fee is going towards maintaining the 'online world'. I don't want an 'online world'. Put the damn thing on a Dvd, let me play it at my liesure without being hooked up to the internet, and let me go out and download and/or purchase new content. Simple as that.

#60 JGabrielli

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 05:35 AM

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In other words it's not a player run economy, it's not populated by player cities. My response is ... so what.

For me it's not even this.  It's that you are tasked with killing the bandits who are preying on a farm, you kill them, get some trinket, then you come back in an hour and the same bandits are still preying on the same farm.  The only progress is pumping stats and getting access to new, similarly pointless quests.  You never really save the farm, or reduce the threat of bear attacks, or clear the kobold mines, and there would be no consequences for the world if you didn't bother to carry out these quests in the first place.  You are doing everything for points, and nothing more.  It is painfully obvious that the NPC's are automatons replaying the same scenes over and over.  The illusion of this being a real, organic world is paper thin.

And I'm not saying a more persistent game world would be easy to design.  It wouldn't.  It would take a tremendous amount of ingenuity to do so.  But it would also keep the game from feeling so hollow.

Then it's probably a given that this genre of gaming simply isn't for you.  Just like some people cannot stand FPS games, or other RTS etc etc.  The fact is that the "MM" stands for Massive Multiplayer, and as such you cannot tailor content for just a single player or even a relatively large group of players, without screwing up the game for the rest of the players.  

I understand your example, and you seem to understand the converse of it, which is... If you were to kill all of the bandits on said farm, and then I go out buy the game and login, and there are no more bandits to kill I'm not going to be to happy with the challenges of "farming" an empty farm.  

NWN with a good sized campaign and a decent DM would likely be more persistent, but having tried that it's not all it's cracked up to be either. I doubt we'll ever see an MMORPG that's persistent in the way you define it.  You might see RPG engines that allow for smaller multiplayer groups to enjoy a persistent world, then again NWN allows that in some ways, but technically it's tedious for the DM to keep content fresh and after a while the DM might want to start charging $15 a month :)  

I enjoy single player RPGs and they of course always tend to have much much better story execution and content, on the other hand I also enjoy the MMORPGs for a completely different set of reasons, communication with actual people, playing with friends, team play (that isn't the twitch monkey variety) etc, and good PvP (testing out one's character and skills against another human).  

I'd also suggest a truly persistent world would ultimately be much more time and responsibility than I would care to spend. Games with more persistent paradigms, like SWG and SB, require a lot more time and effort from the gamer.  Without players the world starts to fall towards entropy.  I remember when SWG first started there was no real economy, since the players hadn't yet established one, things were pretty "dry" then for items and gear.  If one likes that style of game play then more power to them, but for me it's just too much time and effort, for the same rewards essentially I get out of WoW for much less time investment.  

Pricewise again I figure for 40 hours a month $15 is cheap for entertainment, less than a dollar an hour. I used to spend more than that in the arcades as a kid. Of course that's just for me, not everyone has the cash or the time to spend in a game like WoW, but of all of the ones I've played WoW so far seems to require the least amount of time invested for a greater amount of reward.  Anyway I'll reiterate I'm very happy so far with WoW, it is what it is and I think it does what it does very well. And again that's just my opinion, and examples of what makes me happy and content.
Cheers
Joe