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All your ATI updates discussion thread (are belong to us?)


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#1 a2daj

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Posted 20 September 2004 - 03:42 PM

New ATI updates.

ATI Displays 4.4
Allows for 3D Override support for ALL Radeon cards (including OEM)

http://www.ati.com/s...splays-4-4.html

ROM update to allow for support of some features in ATI Displays, like VersaVision on Radeon 8500 and 9000 retail cards.

http://www.ati.com/s...omsept2004.html

Note: these do not install new graphics drivers for ATI cards so do not expect any performance differences unless you enable various 3D Override options.


Here's Bruno from ATI's desc he posted in AYM:

"The new ATI Displays has just been posted to the driver download pages of all RADEON products, both in Panther and Jaguar sections. This new version adds new features to all RADEON products, both retail and OEM. 3D Overrides are now supported on all RADEON chipsets: Retail, BTO/CTO, Built-In and Mobile. Some new features (for retail) require a ROM Update. The new Mac2TV controls now work on all cards equipped with TV out support - this includes the Apple-supplied 9800 and 9600 cards when used with the Apple G5 Video Output adapter.

A new ROM update package has also just been released for all RETAIL RADEON products. This single installer will update all Built-By-ATI Retail RADEON card products to support the latest features exposed in ATI Displays. They also add support for a wider variety of LCD products and for some boards fix incompatibilities that had previously been reported, along with an assortment of bug fixes. Notable highlights: VERSAVISION display rotation for RADEON 8500 and 9000.

http://www.ati.com/support/driver.html

Bruno "
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#2 Quicksilver

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Posted 20 September 2004 - 07:22 PM

It feels so good to be able to talk about this, now that it's out of beta.  I got really tired of people whining last week about how ATI doesn't support the OEM users while we were counting down the days until today.
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#3 OverLoad

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Posted 20 September 2004 - 08:29 PM

I just installed both the firmware update and the new control panel in my G5 dual 2 GHz with a 9800 Pro Mac Edition. Tested them with WC3; they seem to work just fine.

#4 Quicksilver

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Posted 20 September 2004 - 09:05 PM

I don't know where you guys went to download the ROM and ATI CP updates, but if you use versiontracker, you probably know that they have member reviews.  There's who of them (I deleted the names) who posted some pretty irritating stuff, and I'd like to let you read those posts and I'll reply to them here for your enjoyment.   :smile:  

Post 1:

I installed this on my G5 with OEM 9600 Pro card. Did it install?? I gues so, it didnt show me any choices, as the readme file says, but still acted like it installed. My computer boots up.Runs fine. Used new version so my pref panes are intact. Used with ATI Displays 4.4 only gives you 3D panel though which is what Radeon Enabler 1.1 did.No Mac2TV Panel, the only reason I installed it. So this is really useless to me. ATI lives in the Windows world with their mantra"Here's some crappy update-OH ALL RIGHT well fix it to not destroy everything else, but we won't make it work." When I buy a RETAIL card IT WONT BE ATI. ANY NEW MAC WILL BE PRECONF> W/NVIDIA.


Post 2:

Installed this on my G5 w/9600Pro OEM, as the readme says it supports, All it does is replace Radeon Enabler 1.1. Only allows 3D panel as RE did NO MACTV which is why I installed it. I guess they were ashamed that someone else had updated and enabled the OEM cards before they were capable of it, I would be. I Thought they were holding back to give OEM some real features. Oh well guess I'll wait for RE 1.2. When I buy ANY new mac it WILL HAVE NVIDIA even if that costs $600 or I will go with a 5200 If I have to buy a retail card anyway, to get all features.


Allright, both of these guys have Radeon 9600 Pros, and they both seem to think that this update will enable Mac2TV for them.  Mac2TV requires a Radeon 9800 Pro retail or later with the S-Video out port--somehow these geniuses must've thought that a software update could magically solder a port onto their cards, and that nVidia is better because it apparently has a TV output.  Interestingly, if they knew what they were talking about, they'd know that nVidia cards come with practically zero support, and they don't have TV-out anyway.  Not to mention that you'll get zero override support--I can't imagine why they think that nVidia will be better.  But, I digress . . .

I should probably let people who've been around longer handle this one, but in response to the people who accuse ATI of being lazy and not working on the OEM support--we've had to test the living daylights out of the control panel that you now have to make sure it works.  The Enabler was just a cut-and-paste hack, but this is the real thing.  We've were working on the OEM support for a long time and it was driving me (and some other people) a little bit nuts to hear people saying, "Where is ATI?  They suck!"  Well, that's about the end of my rant . . . I hope you enjoyed it!   :wink:
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#5 OverLoad

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Posted 20 September 2004 - 09:21 PM

Quote

Allright, both of these guys have Radeon 9600 Pros, and they both seem to think that this update will enable Mac2TV for them.
Actually it's the same guy. I suspected as much because the writing style in the two posts was very similar. So I checked VersionTracker and, sure enough, both posts have the same name on them.

I agree with you that the guy has a serious clue deficit. :wink:

#6 BenRoethig

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Posted 20 September 2004 - 09:50 PM

Definate step in the right direction.  Hopefully we'll see a Mac version of catalyst some day.

#7 1337

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Posted 20 September 2004 - 10:16 PM

For my own, personal edification, can you tell me more about ATI vs. nVidia on Mac?

Bear in mind my first Mac was a TiBook 667 (i loved that thing!), and I'm currently on my second, a G4 1.25 15".  I've never really had much in the way of a choice on hardware until my "to-be-delievered-october-29th-we-swear!" dual g5 2.5.

I had ordered the nVidia because it appeared to be the baddest of the bad at the moment, and the only one capable of powering the 30" display (although i later decided to step down to 23").

Was my decision a bad one?  It's holding up my G5 order, and if there's a better ATI equivalent out there, I'd like to know.  Knowing zilch about support, driver updates, and overall quality of both companies on the Mac platform, I feel like I'm flying through the Alps in a plane with no windows.

#8 Malus121

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Posted 20 September 2004 - 10:44 PM

Quote

For my own, personal edification, can you tell me more about ATI vs. nVidia on Mac?

Bear in mind my first Mac was a TiBook 667 (i loved that thing!), and I'm currently on my second, a G4 1.25 15".  I've never really had much in the way of a choice on hardware until my "to-be-delievered-october-29th-we-swear!" dual g5 2.5.

I had ordered the nVidia because it appeared to be the baddest of the bad at the moment, and the only one capable of powering the 30" display (although i later decided to step down to 23").

Was my decision a bad one?  It's holding up my G5 order, and if there's a better ATI equivalent out there, I'd like to know.  Knowing zilch about support, driver updates, and overall quality of both companies on the Mac platform, I feel like I'm flying through the Alps in a plane with no windows.
No! Dont cancel your order.  The Geforce 6800 Ultra is a BAD ASS card.  As long as the drivers perform well(which im sure they will) this card will ABSOLUTLY SPANK EVERYTHING ATI currently has out on the Mac market.  The only disadvantage you have with Nvidia is that you dont get a control panel for enbabling stuff like antialiasing and Antiscopteric filtering, which although a rather large disadvantage, is in this case offset by the huge performance difference.
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#9 Lucian

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Posted 20 September 2004 - 10:59 PM

Quote

Quote

For my own, personal edification, can you tell me more about ATI vs. nVidia on Mac?

Bear in mind my first Mac was a TiBook 667 (i loved that thing!), and I'm currently on my second, a G4 1.25 15".  I've never really had much in the way of a choice on hardware until my "to-be-delievered-october-29th-we-swear!" dual g5 2.5.

I had ordered the nVidia because it appeared to be the baddest of the bad at the moment, and the only one capable of powering the 30" display (although i later decided to step down to 23").

Was my decision a bad one?  It's holding up my G5 order, and if there's a better ATI equivalent out there, I'd like to know.  Knowing zilch about support, driver updates, and overall quality of both companies on the Mac platform, I feel like I'm flying through the Alps in a plane with no windows.
No! Dont cancel your order.  The Geforce 6800 Ultra is a BAD ASS card.  As long as the drivers perform well(which im sure they will) this card will ABSOLUTLY SPANK EVERYTHING ATI currently has out on the Mac market.  The only disadvantage you have with Nvidia is that you dont get a control panel for enbabling stuff like antialiasing and Antiscopteric filtering, which although a rather large disadvantage, is in this case offset by the huge performance difference.
Funny, because I could say, "If the X800 is ever announced for the Mac, it would ABSOLUTELY SPANK EVERYTHING NVIDIA currently has out on the Mac market." My point is that there is no point in saying "XYZ product, which does not currently exist, is faster than everything currently available." To be fair to both companies, you must compare current products on both sides and that means that ATI is ahead of the game, by far. Also, if I were to spend $600 on a video card, I'd want it to be supported as well as ATI has supported my $400 video card.
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#10 OverLoad

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Posted 20 September 2004 - 11:00 PM

Quote

For my own, personal edification, can you tell me more about ATI vs. nVidia on Mac?

...

Was my decision a bad one?  It's holding up my G5 order, and if there's a better ATI equivalent out there, I'd like to know.  Knowing zilch about support, driver updates, and overall quality of both companies on the Mac platform, I feel like I'm flying through the Alps in a plane with no windows.
I can't really answer your first question, as I haven't had an nVidia in a Mac in quite some time. I've had a variety of Radeons, and I've been pretty satisfied with all of them (meaning I've gotten the performance I expected of each card, given that card's specs and price). But I've also heard great things about the GeForce 4Ti, and would like to have tried using one back when I had a G4.

There's one big difference between nVidia and ATI: you generally can't get aftermarket nVidia cards for the Macintosh, unless Apple deigns to make them available. For example I tried to get a 4Ti for my G4 a little over a year ago: Apple didn't have them in stock any more, so I was out of luck. It doesn't seem likely that any third party will step up to make nVidia cards for the Mac.

I guess Apple will be selling the nVidia cards for a while, though, because they have to if they want to sell those 30 inch displays...

As far is afterservice is concerned, driver updates are generally made available as part of Apple's OS X updates. I consider this a good thing, because it means that the drivers have probably been tested quite a bit at Apple, and so are less likely to have major problems. (I've played the "musical video drivers" game on Windows machines, and I've had enough of that to last several lifetimes!)

The updates referred to in this thread are not drivers per se, but utility programs that allow us Radeon users to fine tune our cards' performance better. I'm really pleased that ATI is making them available, and they seem to be coming out at a fairly good pace IMHO.

Did you make the wrong choice? Well, it's a pretty sure bet that the new nVidia card will give better performance than the 9800, which is the best ATI has out there at the moment. Everyone's expecting that ATI will release an x800 card for the Mac sometime soon, but who knows when that will be? You could have held off on the nVidia card until people have done comparative benchmarks on the two cards, but you'd have to put up with lower performance in the meantime.

Since Apple is offering the nVidia as the premium option this time around, it seems to me their support won't be any worse than it has been for, say, the Radeon 9800 OEM.

Edit: But, as Malus121 pointed out, nVidia is not as likely as ATI is to come out with things like this handy control panel. With an ATI card, you get support from ATI as well as from Apple.

In the long run, I think the card you have on order is the best one for the Mac at the moment. I also think it's likely that it will still be the best one when it actually arrives at your door. That shouldn't be too far away, now, should it?

Hang in there...

#11 Drunk_caterpillar

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Posted 20 September 2004 - 11:17 PM

Quote

Allright, both of these guys have Radeon 9600 Pros, and they both seem to think that this update will enable Mac2TV for them.  Mac2TV requires a Radeon 9800 Pro retail or later with the S-Video out port--somehow these geniuses must've thought that a software update could magically solder a port onto their cards, and that nVidia is better because it apparently has a TV output.

You do know that Apple supplies a DVI to S-Video/Composite adapter for Radeon 9600 Pro/XT and 9800 Pro/XT cards right? You also know that when you plug these adapters into the cards it unlocks the Mac2TV panel in the ATI displays panel, right? Way to fly off the handle.

Al

#12 Lucian

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Posted 20 September 2004 - 11:33 PM

Quote

Quote

Allright, both of these guys have Radeon 9600 Pros, and they both seem to think that this update will enable Mac2TV for them.  Mac2TV requires a Radeon 9800 Pro retail or later with the S-Video out port--somehow these geniuses must've thought that a software update could magically solder a port onto their cards, and that nVidia is better because it apparently has a TV output.

You do know that Apple supplies a DVI to S-Video/Composite adapter for Radeon 9600 Pro/XT and 9800 Pro/XT cards right? You also know that when you plug these adapters into the cards it unlocks the Mac2TV panel in the ATI displays panel, right? Way to fly off the handle.

Al
Now that's embarrassing. Thanks for pointing it out Drunk_caterpillar.
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#13 Malus121

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Posted 20 September 2004 - 11:48 PM

Quote

Quote

Quote

For my own, personal edification, can you tell me more about ATI vs. nVidia on Mac?

Bear in mind my first Mac was a TiBook 667 (i loved that thing!), and I'm currently on my second, a G4 1.25 15".  I've never really had much in the way of a choice on hardware until my "to-be-delievered-october-29th-we-swear!" dual g5 2.5.

I had ordered the nVidia because it appeared to be the baddest of the bad at the moment, and the only one capable of powering the 30" display (although i later decided to step down to 23").

Was my decision a bad one?  It's holding up my G5 order, and if there's a better ATI equivalent out there, I'd like to know.  Knowing zilch about support, driver updates, and overall quality of both companies on the Mac platform, I feel like I'm flying through the Alps in a plane with no windows.
No! Dont cancel your order.  The Geforce 6800 Ultra is a BAD ASS card.  As long as the drivers perform well(which im sure they will) this card will ABSOLUTLY SPANK EVERYTHING ATI currently has out on the Mac market.  The only disadvantage you have with Nvidia is that you dont get a control panel for enbabling stuff like antialiasing and Antiscopteric filtering, which although a rather large disadvantage, is in this case offset by the huge performance difference.
Funny, because I could say, "If the X800 is ever announced for the Mac, it would ABSOLUTELY SPANK EVERYTHING NVIDIA currently has out on the Mac market." My point is that there is no point in saying "XYZ product, which does not currently exist, is faster than everything currently available." To be fair to both companies, you must compare current products on both sides and that means that ATI is ahead of the game, by far. Also, if I were to spend $600 on a video card, I'd want it to be supported as well as ATI has supported my $400 video card.

Well looks like i'll have to disagree w/ you on several points here.  First things first Even if the X800 is released on the mac, it is no way going to "Spank" the Geforce 6800.  In fact its quite likely the X800 would be slower on some games(Cough Doom 3 Cough) and faster in others.  Now granted it would have the Advantage of the ATI displays control panel ,but thats still doesn't equete to spanking the 6800.  Also The Geforce 6800 has at least been announced for Mac and there are preproduction units out there, thats more than can be said of ATI's X800(granted ATI could have one sitting in their labs somewhere but until they say something...).  Now I will agree with you that IF The X800 were to be released on the Mac side i would be more likely to spend my money on that as 3D Overrides are important to me.  However, the Nvidia is still by no means a bad choice.
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#14 Drunk_caterpillar

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Posted 20 September 2004 - 11:57 PM

Quote

Quote

Quote

Allright, both of these guys have Radeon 9600 Pros, and they both seem to think that this update will enable Mac2TV for them.  Mac2TV requires a Radeon 9800 Pro retail or later with the S-Video out port--somehow these geniuses must've thought that a software update could magically solder a port onto their cards, and that nVidia is better because it apparently has a TV output.

You do know that Apple supplies a DVI to S-Video/Composite adapter for Radeon 9600 Pro/XT and 9800 Pro/XT cards right? You also know that when you plug these adapters into the cards it unlocks the Mac2TV panel in the ATI displays panel, right? Way to fly off the handle.

Now that's embarrassing. Thanks for pointing it out Drunk_caterpillar.

Not a problem.

I do have a question though: does anyone else have some wired framerate glitches in UT X when they turn on the VSync in the overrides panel? When it reaches sixty FPS the game goes into slow motion even though the framerate continues to stay at a rock solid sixty.

Al

#15 Lucian

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Posted 21 September 2004 - 02:08 AM

Quote

Quote

Quote

No! Dont cancel your order.  The Geforce 6800 Ultra is a BAD ASS card.  As long as the drivers perform well(which im sure they will) this card will ABSOLUTLY SPANK EVERYTHING ATI currently has out on the Mac market.  The only disadvantage you have with Nvidia is that you dont get a control panel for enbabling stuff like antialiasing and Antiscopteric filtering, which although a rather large disadvantage, is in this case offset by the huge performance difference.
Funny, because I could say, "If the X800 is ever announced for the Mac, it would ABSOLUTELY SPANK EVERYTHING NVIDIA currently has out on the Mac market." My point is that there is no point in saying "XYZ product, which does not currently exist, is faster than everything currently available." To be fair to both companies, you must compare current products on both sides and that means that ATI is ahead of the game, by far. Also, if I were to spend $600 on a video card, I'd want it to be supported as well as ATI has supported my $400 video card.

Well looks like i'll have to disagree w/ you on several points here.  First things first Even if the X800 is released on the mac, it is no way going to "Spank" the Geforce 6800.  In fact its quite likely the X800 would be slower on some games(Cough Doom 3 Cough) and faster in others.  Now granted it would have the Advantage of the ATI displays control panel ,but thats still doesn't equete to spanking the 6800.  Also The Geforce 6800 has at least been announced for Mac and there are preproduction units out there, thats more than can be said of ATI's X800(granted ATI could have one sitting in their labs somewhere but until they say something...).  Now I will agree with you that IF The X800 were to be released on the Mac side i would be more likely to spend my money on that as 3D Overrides are important to me.  However, the Nvidia is still by no means a bad choice.
It looks like you completely missed my point. Either that, or you need to read my post again. I wasn't making any type of comparison. I was trying to emphasize that it is unfair to make comparisons between a product that hasn't shipped (6800) with a product that exists (9800). It's ridiculous how you continue to compare two products that don't exist on the Mac (6800 and X800).  You are basing your "spanking" comments purely on PC benchmarks, which is very ignorant on your part because the Mac and PC are entirely different platforms. Forgive me for pointing out such an obvious fact, but every time a Mac user uses PC benchmarks as a basis for his argument, that point must be reiterated.
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#16 Quicksilver

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Posted 21 September 2004 - 07:02 AM

Quote

Quote

You do know that Apple supplies a DVI to S-Video/Composite adapter for Radeon 9600 Pro/XT and 9800 Pro/XT cards right? You also know that when you plug these adapters into the cards it unlocks the Mac2TV panel in the ATI displays panel, right? Way to fly off the handle.

Al
Now that's embarrassing. Thanks for pointing it out Drunk_caterpillar.

I don't know why that's embarrassing--you're missing the point.  This guy expected the Mac2TV capability to magically become available without having the appropriate hardware!  Obviously, it would be embarrassing if he said that he had the adapter and that the new CP didn't enable that feature for him, but that's not the case here.   :roll:
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#17 Robo-X

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Posted 21 September 2004 - 08:12 AM

I have a 15" Powerbook with a Radeon 9600 Mobility chip inside will ATI Radeon Display 4.4 do anything on that card?

//Rob

#18 a2daj

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Posted 21 September 2004 - 08:31 AM

Quote

I have a 15" Powerbook with a Radeon 9600 Mobility chip inside will ATI Radeon Display 4.4 do anything on that card?  

//Rob

Other than allow 3D Overrides, I believe no.  Apple has its own set of TV out functionality for PowerBooks.
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#19 macgallant

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Posted 21 September 2004 - 10:10 AM

I ran the Sept 2004 Rom updater for my retail radeon 9800 and when the updater finished, there was a window that said that it was recommended that I restart to for changes to take effect with a "close" button (I think). I clicked it. And the remaining window said if I wanted to do further installations to click the "continue" button or click the "quit" button to quit. I then clicked "quit"

Then safari launched with the sept 2004 readme. I read it and quit. And I restarted manually from the Apple Menu.  Then readme said that after the Rom updater updated the radeon, it would restart automatically.  But it didn't for me, I have to manually restart it.  Is this normal? Have I screwed up my Radeon 9800?  What version rom, fcode and ndrv do you guys have listed in the ati control panel, under profile?
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#20 OverLoad

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Posted 21 September 2004 - 10:18 AM

When I updated my ROM, I thought the "update complete" dialog box said something to the effect that the computer needed to be restarted for the update to take effect, but the updater would not do it for me.

I presumed this was because it wanted to open the readme in the browser instead. I didn't notice where the readme said the updater would restart the computer, but I didn't read it too closely. In this case, I would trust the dialog put up by the updater more than I would the readme...

Seems kinda funny to do it that way. You'd think the installer should show the readme before the update process is begun...that way the updater would be able to trigger the restart automatically.

Quote

What version rom, fcode and ndrv do you guys have listed in the ati control panel, under profile?
Fcode 1.94, NDRV 1.0.1f3A. Rom version is ATY,Apache_A?

But even if ours match, it could still mean the upgrade failed for both of us. It would be best if someone in the know would tell us what they should be.