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Neverwinter Nights 2


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#21 a2daj

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 01:31 AM

You can be more interested in a game that's completely different.
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#22 Gafgarion

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 01:52 AM

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You can be more interested in a game that's completely different.

Yes, but what does it have to do with the topic? Saying that you were more interesting KOTOR 2 would make sense in this topic, but traditional RPGs to MMORPGs is apples to oranges.

#23 a2daj

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 03:30 AM

He likes WoW more than NWN2.  It interests him more.  It's like saying someone likes to play computer games instead of exercising.  He'd rather play one game over another.
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#24 Gafgarion

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 03:35 AM

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He likes WoW more than NWN2.  It interests him more.  It's like saying someone likes to play computer games instead of exercising.  He'd rather play one game over another.

It would get really old if everyone went into the Doom 3 threads and said "I'm more interested in Baldur's Gate 3 more"... Perfect threadjacking material.

You make the perfect point in that if someone said they liked to play computer games instead of exercising... on a forum for gym equipment. All that does is hijack threads.

#25 Hog

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 06:14 AM

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Sure they could write a game that would operate on multiple platforms or be easy to port, but then other aspects of the game would suffer, graphics, game play, quality assurance (bugs)...

how should game play and graphics suffer? they are not done by the programmers.
there would even be less bugs if you stick to a good software architecture design which would also be easier to port.

#26 clichekiller

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 08:32 AM

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how should game play and graphics suffer? they are not done by the programmers.
there would even be less bugs if you stick to a good software architecture design which would also be easier to port.
Okay, you have a list of desired features.  You have limited resources to implement them all with.  If you dictate that the code must be cross-platform from the start you have just dedicated some of those resources to that goal.  It is not uncommon for features, ie gameplay, to get cut if it doesn't look like they're will be enough time to implement them all.  More bugs might creep into the project due splitting your QA effort.  More platforms mean more testing.  I've seen this, not in game development, but in equally large commercial software projects, and I'm sure the same will hold true in any field.

#27 landru

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 09:17 AM

I don't think it's necessarily true that cross-platform development results in more bugs. For instance, in the Apple article on Blizzard and their simultaneous cross-platform development, they claim that it makes it easier to spot bugs and potential optmizations than if they developed for a single platform. I agree with your point that it requires more resources though.

#28 a2daj

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 02:17 PM

Quote

Quote

He likes WoW more than NWN2.  It interests him more.  It's like saying someone likes to play computer games instead of exercising.  He'd rather play one game over another.

It would get really old if everyone went into the Doom 3 threads and said "I'm more interested in Baldur's Gate 3 more"... Perfect threadjacking material.

You make the perfect point in that if someone said they liked to play computer games instead of exercising... on a forum for gym equipment. All that does is hijack threads.

It's only threadjacking if someone bites ;)

Both WoW and NWN can be played online and they're both RPGs.  Online Role Playing Game.  They have that in common.  That's more in common than Doom 3 and BG3 would have.  NWN2 will also have online capabilities.  NWN can be set up to be a scaled down MMORPG.  NWN can probably be modded to simulate many of WoW's features.  Both games can be viewed from 3rd person.  Combat and magic casting is similar.  I think there's enough in common between WoW and NWN for a fair comparison.  Unfortunately, Harm chose not to expand on his opinion.
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#29 Rubel

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 07:34 PM

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I don't think it's necessarily true that cross-platform development results in more bugs. For instance, in the Apple article on Blizzard and their simultaneous cross-platform development, they claim that it makes it easier to spot bugs and potential optmizations than if they developed for a single platform.

Yes. When I worked at Be, we still built BeOS for PowerPC as well as Intel platforms, even though the Intel one was thriving and the PPC one was dying (due to Apple stopping the clones and closing off our access to specs on the new machines). The other developers told me they definitley found bugs through cross-platform development.

Also, you're usually using two different compilers: in our case, Metrowerks and GCC. Each one is picky about different things; the code was made stronger by having to survive in diverse environments.

Let's not forgot one other game that was developed simultaniously for Mac and Windows: Master of Orion 3. I wonder if, looking back, the developers see it as a help or a hinderance.
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#30 SilentBobCDN

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Posted 07 August 2004 - 01:07 PM

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... Perfect threadjacking material.

You want hijacking material? Take a good long look at this thread. Yes, it is related, but i see no mention of the word 'toolset' in this threads title. It looks like we moved from NWN2 discussion for a few posts to more whining about how we got 'screwed' by the lack of a toolset. Move On people. Did Bioware physically hurt you when they didnt (read: Couldn't) include the toolset with the Mac version of NWN? Didn't think so.

Suck it Up

And to make this post actually relevant, I don't really care who makes the game. Obsidian, Trokia, whoever. If its a good game and it is ported to the macintosh platform, I will buy it and like it. If its not good, I just wont buy it.

#31 almondblight

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Posted 07 August 2004 - 01:20 PM

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Why worried about?  
Sorry, my English isn't too good.  Sadly, though, it's my only language.

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If it's Troika, I have to say I liked ToEE and its TB system (but that's from reading about it; as a Mac user they never let me play it), and thought Arcanum was an intriguing title, but ToEE was a bugfest (although that may not have been their fault) and virtually storyless (although again that's possibly because the original TSR module was storyless). Not two characteristics I'd like to see in BG3. Plus, I have a deep suspicion if they do it they'll have no access to whatever work went into Jefferson.

Eh, I'm not too sure how good Jefferson was anyways, but I doubt anyone will have access to it.

As for ToEE and Arcanum - well, I never played Arcanum, but I hear it was really cool except fo the combat system (which may have been the way it was because the developers made Troika include multiplayer).  I downloaded the ToEE demo on a friend's PC, and I have to say, before playing it I though D&D just doesn't work on the computer.  After playing it I realized I could never go back to BG or NWN (which I choked down before hand, at least in BG II, to see the story).  Yes there were problems, but those mostly stemmed from the original module (being pretty hack and slash oriented - but so was IWD) and Atari pushing for an early release (hence the bugs), censoring it (making them remove a brothel and a gay relationship), and forcing them to only include a certain amount of words (menaing they had to cut out the descriptions of magic items).  Sounds like a developers nightmare (and now they sent the latest patch to Atari, who won't release it), but from what I played, it seemed like a good game (with a great battle system).  I also like that (from what I've read) they've included true good and evil parties, with different beginnings and reasons to go to the temple for each, as well as preventing alignments that are two far apart from being in the same party (why would a noble Paladin decide to travel with a bloodthirsty killer?).


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If it's Bethesda.... arrrgh. I cannot stand how they are going to very likely Morrowindize Fallout, and that thought brings me pain. The only thing that brings me more is thinking what they might do to BG3.

Ehh...I don't even consider Fallout a franchise, I tried to play the second one again today and stopped after 5 minutes.  But speaking of Troika and Fallout...check out these pics of their latest unnanounced game:

http://www.nma-fallo...a/post_05_b.jpg
http://www.nma-fallo...a/post_06_b.jpg

and some concept art:

http://www.nma-fallo...a/post_04_b.jpg
http://www.nma-fallo...a/post_03_b.jpg
http://www.nma-fallo...a/post_02_b.jpg
http://www.nma-fallo...a/post_01_b.jpg

Not Fallout, but could be a cool game none the less.  Let's just hope it gets made and gets to the mac.

#32 Rubel

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Posted 09 August 2004 - 08:32 AM

The head of Obsidian (former head of Black Isle) Fergus Urquhart has replied to a few forum posts: http://www.sorcerers.net/#000045

What I found most interesting is that they are starting with HotU NWN and updating like crazy. So, the graphics are going to be much better (he mentions being familiar with their codebase from working on KotOR 2), but since the toolset isn't being re-written, we're unlikely to see it.

Remembering what kind of extensive customization they put into Baldurs Gate's Infinity Engine to make Torment and IWD, I bet they'll come up with something very interesting.

The good side to them starting with the current NWN code is that they already have Linux and Mac compatibility, and wouldn't need to add it in later on. Just so long as they keep it during the process!
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#33 MadMatt

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Posted 09 August 2004 - 02:25 PM

If NWN2 is using the NWN code base along with improvements and additions, it will likely not support Macs with G4 processors. There are times when NWN runs like a dog on my dual 1 Ghz G4, so I'd expect the next generation game to require a mid-range G5.

I've had my current Mac for 3 years, and I generally hand on to a Mac for about 5 years, so I should be replacing my current Mac just in time to be able to play NWN2 if they bring it to the Mac.

-Matt

#34 Rubel

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Posted 09 August 2004 - 03:24 PM

Tell me about it! KotOR has me pondering my upgrade options. I get the feeling that pre-G5 stuff will soon be left in the dust. We'll see how worthy a gaming machine next month's iMac is.
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#35 MadMatt

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Posted 09 August 2004 - 03:42 PM

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Tell me about it! KotOR has me pondering my upgrade options. I get the feeling that pre-G5 stuff will soon be left in the dust. We'll see how worthy a gaming machine next month's iMac is.

As far as I know, there is no upgrade option for my MDD G4. However, I can't afford to drop the cash for a new machine at the moment. As much as I'd love to buy a G5, my non-gaming computer needs don't demand a new machine. I can't justify buying a new Mac just to play games. KotOR should play OK on my machine, so I'll survive for awhile. Most of my favorite games don't demand all that much out of machine, so I should be OK for a couple more years. Then, when NWN2 comes out, I'll be in a position to buy something new.

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#36 remnant

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Posted 14 August 2004 - 02:47 AM

Informative thread here on the prospects of a mac/Linux port of NWN2.

Quote from the developers:

Quote

I've actually answered this in another forum. We are not actively developing an OpenGL (mac/linux) version of NWN2 at the moment. Things may change, and people keeping the issue in the forefront is not a bad thing.

We won't be hamstringing the source code, so an OpenGL programmer won't have to deal with creating new data formats, etc. He will have to replicate all the graphical and toolset functionality as well as read our new file formats, however.


#37 Jolly Rogue

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Posted 22 September 2005 - 01:34 PM

remnant, on August 14th 2004, 12:47 AM, said:

Informative thread here on the prospects of a mac/Linux port of NWN2.
Quote from the developers:

View Post

Unfortunately, the link broke...

...But here's one that works. From the Bioware NWN2 forum itself, we have this alarming post:

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NWN2 will ship supporting DX9.0c only. There are currently no plans for anything else, and only Atari can make the decision for an OpenGL version of the graphics engine. Asking for one here doesn't improve the chances of a port; if you want something, you have to ask the right people (see link above).

Will NWN2 run under cedega? Nobody knows (the game had not been release yet), and as cedega is 3rd party software, the developers and publisher of NWN2 can make no such guarantee.
What does the DX9.0c mean for Mac users? I'm not sure. Anybody have any insight on this? I'm not sure what NWN1 used, either, or whether it will affect the great cross-platform playability of NWN1.

They give a link to Atari for a dedicated request thread for Mac/Linux here.

#38 NeoWolf

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Posted 22 September 2005 - 04:07 PM

In other words in order to make a Mac port you need to update the OpenGL portion of the code to match all of the work they've done to the engine since NWN1 (which used OpenGL.) So in porting it you basically have to worry about duplicating all of their graphical work, and from what I've read there's a lot.

#39 txa1265

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Posted 22 September 2005 - 06:23 PM

Jolly Rogue, on September 22nd 2005, 02:34 PM, said:

What does the DX9.0c mean for Mac users?

View Post

It means that the likelihood of seeing a Mac NWN2 is ... well, not very good.

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#40 Space_Pirate_Killer

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Posted 23 September 2005 - 02:59 AM

txa1265, on September 22nd 2005, 05:23 PM, said:

It means that the likelihood of seeing a Mac NWN2 is ... well, not very good.

Mike

View Post

But by the time it comes out we will start using Intelmacs, so maybe...  :(
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