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2.5 GHz G5s are here.


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#81 Daveg5

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Posted 15 June 2004 - 12:26 PM

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Pretty incredible. I can't believe it's not a heat pipe. Wonder how long those things will last. (And what Apple has ready for replacement when they fail.)
yea it looks awesome,clever engineering, I believe we might have a 3.0GHZ by christmas if they enhance it more even with the 970 fx.

#82 rob_ART

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Posted 16 June 2004 - 09:04 AM

After our discussion about "real world sane" settings in Halo, I experimented with the settings in an attempt to find the best combination of quality versus speed.  I came up with the following combination:
1024x768 resolution
Vertex Shaders Only
FSAA = 4X
Detail Objects = On
Lens Flare = Low
Model Detail = High
Specular = Off
Shadows = Off
Decals = On
Particles = High
Texture Quality = High
Sound = On, but Low Quality

G5/2.0GHz MP with 9800 Pro Special 256M Edition = 61 avg fps
G4/1.5GHz PowerBook with 9700 Mobility (128M) = 25 avg fps

Any comments? Suggestions?

#83 a2daj

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Posted 16 June 2004 - 10:25 AM

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After our discussion about "real world sane" settings in Halo, I experimented with the settings in an attempt to find the best combination of quality versus speed.  I came up with the following combination:
1024x768 resolution
Vertex Shaders Only
FSAA = 4X
Detail Objects = On
Lens Flare = Low
Model Detail = High
Specular = Off
Shadows = Off
Decals = On
Particles = High
Texture Quality = High
Sound = On, but Low Quality

G5/2.0GHz MP with 9800 Pro Special 256M Edition = 61 avg fps
G4/1.5GHz PowerBook with 9700 Mobility (128M) = 25 avg fps

Any comments? Suggestions?

Just a few quick thoughts.  The Powerbook has a significantly slower system bus and as far as I know, 4xAGP.  Halo is one of the few games at the moment to really eat up graphics subsystems since with Vertex Only and Pixel and Vertex Shaders, it does almost all graphic related tasks on the video card.  So, if you keep the card fed, properly it'll play nicely, assuming the card can handle it.  Halo doesn't have a lot of high quality textures (compared to Quake 3 and especially UT2K3 or 4) so textures probably aren't eating a lot of video memory when pixel shaders are disabled.

The 4xFSAA is probably eating up the Mobility 9700.  It's not a true 9700 class chip (only has 4 rendering pipes), closer to the 9600 XT class chipset so that's understandable.  Apple also has it running at the lower end of the rated speeds, 392 MHz GPU/202MHz memory (noted here).  Minimum clock range is 390/200 respectively (not really officially minimums, but Apple is using slower clock speeds than others).  I don't recall which types of FSAA the Mobility 9700 can use, but since the user doesn't have direct control over which method is used, we can't tell if it's using Multi or Supersampling.  I would hope in both cases it defaults to Multi for performance reasons.  I think the slower system bus and possibly the 4 rendering pipes might be affecting the framerate.  Running a similar test on a G5 with a 9600 could confirm or rule out the rendering pipes.  I have a 1.2 dual G4 with a Radeon 9800 Pro so I could duplicate the test sometime to see what my system gets at 4xFSAA.  At 1.2 GHz and above, the CPU doesn't really hurt performance too much since the Mac version of Halo is more GPU limited but my 133MHz system bus may come into play.
Dual 2.5 GHz G5-RADEON X800 -4 GB RAM-Revo 7.1
MBP 2.0GHz -Mobility RADEON X1600-2 GB RAM

#84 rob_ART

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Posted 16 June 2004 - 05:05 PM

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The 4xFSAA is probably eating up the Mobility 9700.  

I wondered about that, too. But when I turned off FSAA, the framerate of the PowerBook climbed only to 29. My contention is that it looks a lot better with FSAA turned on, even if you loose 4fps.

CORRECTION: I had the PowerBook on "Longest Battery Life" setting by mistake. I set it to "Highest Performance" and got these numbers for 1024x768, Hi settings, Vertex shading:
4X FSAA = 30 fps
No FSAA = 34 fps

Still only lost 4 fps but 4X FSAA makes the jaggies go away.

#85 Cacicia

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Posted 25 June 2004 - 01:46 AM

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Still only lost 4 fps but 4X FSAA makes the jaggies go away.

Only 4fps?

30:100=4:X

X=13,3% more :D

#86 mattyj

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Posted 25 June 2004 - 04:44 AM

Can't be that low the performance, I mean I have mine set higher.

Dual 1000MHz, 1024MB DDR333, GF4Ti.
Frames=4700
Total Time=225.40s
Average frame rate=20.85fps

###Sound Options###
Hardware Acceleration= No
Sound Quality= High
Environmental Sound= No
Sound Variety= High

###Video Options###
Resolution= 1280 x 1024
Refresh rate= 0 Hz
Framerate throttle= No Vsync
Specular= Yes
Shadows= No
Decals= No
Particles= Off
Texture Quality= High
Lens Flare= Low

Yes only 20fps but who plays the single player anyway it's rubbish. Besides, the multiplayer is more of a GPU test since it's not having to run any AI etc. I can say now that yes in muliplayer it does get choppy but most of the time it is smooth, and by smooth I mean above 30fps. Only in Timberland looking at the whole level does it slow down.

#87 rob_ART

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Posted 25 June 2004 - 05:16 AM

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###Video Options###
Resolution= 1280 x 1024
Refresh rate= 0 Hz
Framerate throttle= No Vsync
Specular= Yes
Shadows= No
Decals= No
Particles= Off
Texture Quality= High
Lens Flare= Low

Interesting choice of settings. Why do you have Particles OFF? Doesn't that make it hard to see incoming missiles?

I would be curious to see your numbers with only Vertex Shaders ON.

#88 mattyj

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Posted 25 June 2004 - 05:28 AM

No not at all. It plays pretty well. All I've done is chosen the settings that make the most visual impact, i.e. resolution, shaders etc and compromised between those. Good settings but I could do with a bit more fps I'll admit, sometimes it can get a bit choppy.

#89 a2daj

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Posted 25 June 2004 - 12:00 PM

The timedemo Particle output is broken in Halo.  It always lists Particles as off.  One would have to seriously enjoy pain to play Halo with Particles off.  You wouldn't be able to tell a live plasma nade from an inactive one or see a rocket coming at you.
Dual 2.5 GHz G5-RADEON X800 -4 GB RAM-Revo 7.1
MBP 2.0GHz -Mobility RADEON X1600-2 GB RAM

#90 a2daj

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Posted 25 June 2004 - 12:04 PM

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The 4xFSAA is probably eating up the Mobility 9700.

I wondered about that, too. But when I turned off FSAA, the framerate of the PowerBook climbed only to 29. My contention is that it looks a lot better with FSAA turned on, even if you loose 4fps.

CORRECTION: I had the PowerBook on "Longest Battery Life" setting by mistake. I set it to "Highest Performance" and got these numbers for 1024x768, Hi settings, Vertex shading:
4X FSAA = 30 fps
No FSAA = 34 fps

Still only lost 4 fps but 4X FSAA makes the jaggies go away.

I also said "I think the slower system bus and possibly the 4 rendering pipes might be affecting the framerate."  The mobility 9700 is basically a 9600 class chip.
Dual 2.5 GHz G5-RADEON X800 -4 GB RAM-Revo 7.1
MBP 2.0GHz -Mobility RADEON X1600-2 GB RAM

#91 mattyj

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Posted 25 June 2004 - 04:02 PM

I've never noticed the difference.  :razz:  :lol: