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Grey Market Resellers


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#1 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 30 November 2020 - 10:35 AM

Duke Nukem Forever
XCOM: Enemy Unknown Complete Edition
The Secret of Monkey Island Special Edition
Sonic & Sega All-Star Racing

1$ each. Gives Steam keys.
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#2 Camper-Hunter

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Posted 01 December 2020 - 07:31 AM

Thain Esh Kelch, a word of warning though: Eneba is a grey market reseller, like G2A, Kinguin, CDkeys, Instant Gaming, etc. They're not an official distributor like Steam (obviously), Humble Bundle, Fanatical, GMG, Game Billet, Allyouplay, Games Planet, etc.; and let's not forget Mac/WinGameStore!

#3 the Battle Cat

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Posted 01 December 2020 - 11:40 AM

View PostCamper-Hunter, on 01 December 2020 - 07:31 AM, said:

Thain Esh Kelch, a word of warning though: Eneba is a grey market reseller, like G2A, Kinguin, CDkeys, Instant Gaming, etc. They're not an official distributor like Steam (obviously), Humble Bundle, Fanatical, GMG, Game Billet, Allyouplay, Games Planet, etc.; and let's not forget Mac/WinGameStore!

This concerns me, IMG forums has a strict no piracy rule.  Is the grey market reselling illegal, even slightly illegal? I found some articles that say yes, they are ill gotten goods in many cases, not all but many.  You can find them here, here, and here.

I think we should not allow grey market resellers to be linked here.

I would appreciate the feedback of the forum members and the moderators on this matter.  Keep in mind that what we would like is not nearly as important as what is the right thing to do.
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#4 Camper-Hunter

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Posted 01 December 2020 - 12:23 PM

Well, they're neither legal nor illegal, hence grey. They usually operate from countries with lax laws on the subject. It's not piracy (which would be black), as in a Steam key is a Steam key, you can't copy it. But you can find, for instance:
- keys bought from bundles (in theory you're not allowed to resell them)
- keys bought from countries with much lower regional pricing than Western Europe and North America (if you don't know, games on Steam don't have the same price everywhere in the world)
- sometimes keys bought with stolen credit cards (that's what made headlines a couple times). I don't think this is very common though.
- keys from boxed versions bought from low prices countries (they scan the paper with the key and sell this)

Some people don't care provided the price is good, others stay clear from these sites.
They're often the only way to buy a key from games which have been removed from Steam, though; when Telltale folded, I had to go there to buy a Minecraft Story Mode Season 2 key.
Some like G2A and Kinguin act a bit like eBay (marketplaces), so depending on the vendor reliability can be fluctuating (ie, there's a risk of getting an invalid key).

#5 Janichsan

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Posted 01 December 2020 - 01:27 PM

Essentially what Camper-Hunter said: it's not really illegal, but a bit fishy. The major problem with these key resellers is that the developers mostly don't see any money from these sales, which hurts indie studios.

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#6 Cougar

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Posted 01 December 2020 - 05:27 PM

View PostJanichsan, on 01 December 2020 - 01:27 PM, said:

The major problem with these key resellers is that the developers mostly don't see any money from these sales, which hurts indie studios.

Yes. Many devs would actually prefer it if you pirated instead of using a key reseller.

#7 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 02 December 2020 - 02:19 AM

Eek! Seems like I got deceived by an official article on Kotaku (At least that's where I think I read it)! I thought it was a proper store just luring people in by a great black friday sale.

Fortunately I only bought one, XCOM, and I recently finished that on iPad, so I don't feel too bad about it, as I will likely never play it (32 bit).

View Postthe Battle Cat, on 01 December 2020 - 11:40 AM, said:

I think we should not allow grey market resellers to be linked here.

I agree fully.

View PostJanichsan, on 01 December 2020 - 01:27 PM, said:

Essentially what Camper-Hunter said: it's not really illegal, but a bit fishy. The major problem with these key resellers is that the developers mostly don't see any money from these sales, which hurts indie studios.
Which is more than enough reason for me.


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#8 Matt Diamond

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Posted 02 December 2020 - 07:45 AM

I'm happy with a strict ban on promoting grey-market resellers. We are advocates for more Mac games, and games in general. The grey market hurts that.

But I'd also be okay with adding some kind of standard warning to every grey market link, that buying on the grey market is harmful to game developers and publishers.

I used a grey market to get the 3rd Starcraft II episode, because Blizzard stopped selling the 3rd one separately in the US, even in their own digital market! I wasn't going to pay for a 3-game bundle when I had paid full price for the first two already. But I do regret supporting the grey marketplace.

Anyway, my point is that we can either take a hard stand on this, or put out the information and let individuals decide. This being 2020, we've seen that leaving things to individuals doesn't work well for things like preventing contagion, but not everything is like that.

If we do ban mention of grey markets then maybe we should pin a post about it. Or do we have a page somewhere already about acceptable forum behavior?

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#9 nick68k

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Posted 02 December 2020 - 09:06 AM

I don't get out much (well, at all, really), so all this grey market stuff was new to me. Fascinating.

Anyway, I agree that this probably isn't something we should be promoting here (and I'm not pointing the finger of blame at TEK, as this seems to have been a genuine error).
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#10 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 02 December 2020 - 12:58 PM

View Postnick68k, on 02 December 2020 - 09:06 AM, said:

(and I'm not pointing the finger of blame at TEK, as this seems to have been a genuine error).
(In a twist that baffles even George RR Martin, I'm the actual owner of that grey site, and am currently luring you guys in to get rich!)
"They're everywhere!" -BOB

#11 the Battle Cat

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Posted 02 December 2020 - 01:06 PM

Good input gents and ladies pretending to be gents.  Oh and gents pretending to be ladies.  Oof, and those who identify as cats.  Aw man, and cats who identify as dogs... Hey look, I'm not going to write out the whole list.  Go create a facebook account and read the list of "identifies".  From now on, "Gents" refers to every one here.  We are SOOOOO taking care of business in this thread!

Anyway, great input, keep it coming!  (which is what I was actually trying to say before my brain broke)
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#12 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 02 December 2020 - 01:14 PM

TBC, maybe you can find some more grey matter... On the grey market?




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#13 Matt Diamond

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Posted 02 December 2020 - 08:23 PM

View PostThain Esh Kelch, on 02 December 2020 - 01:14 PM, said:

TBC, maybe you can find some more grey matter... (puts on sunglasses) on the grey market!  (YEEEEEAAAAAHHH!!!)
Fixed it for you, CSI Miami style.

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#14 the Battle Cat

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Posted 03 December 2020 - 01:40 PM

What got me started with "ladies pretending to be gents" and subsequent gender identifying is that in reviewing each and every new forum account I have noticed that no matter what gender the email name or display name is, nearly everybody who joins the forum selects male from the gender drop down box.  This isn't surprising as women tend to get hit on a lot in forums with either overboard friendly or underboard friendly posts.  Plus "male" is the default.  OK that was cat explaining wasn't it?  Sorry.  ::crawls into Thain's cage, drops key to ground::  Stop hogging the cage Thain!










And stop breathing on me!
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#15 Tibur

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Posted 03 December 2020 - 10:12 PM

My .02 cents: there is a (not insubstantial) risk that IMG could be seen as promoting grey market resellers by linking to them, and to the extent that any of their products are arguably pirated or illegal (or worse actually are pirated or illegal in some way), IMG could be exposed to liability as well if someone went after the resellers.

I would say it's not worth it.  Anyone who wants to find grey market resellers can easily do so on their own. I'm sure IMG has no interest in paying attorneys to fight copyright infringement cases.

#16 Matt Diamond

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Posted 03 December 2020 - 10:23 PM

Seems like we are all pretty much in agreement.

(IANAL, but I don't think IMG is liable for content posted by users, at least not in the US. Unless the outgoing Trump administration somehow carries out on its threat to abolish that protection.)

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#17 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 04 December 2020 - 01:16 AM

View Postthe Battle Cat, on 03 December 2020 - 01:40 PM, said:

What got me started with "ladies pretending to be gents" and subsequent gender identifying is that in reviewing each and every new forum account I have noticed that no matter what gender the email name or display name is, nearly everybody who joins the forum selects male from the gender drop down box.  This isn't surprising as women tend to get hit on a lot in forums with either overboard friendly or underboard friendly posts.  Plus "male" is the default.  OK that was cat explaining wasn't it?  Sorry.  ::crawls into Thain's cage, drops key to ground::  Stop hogging the cage Thain!










And stop breathing on me!
*Gently kicks the key out of the cage, so it drops onto the ground, out of reach*

...So, now it seems, you and me little kitty, we are stuck in here... Together...





(Note to self, don't google "two guys in sex cage" ever again)
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#18 Matt Diamond

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Posted 04 December 2020 - 02:31 PM

View PostThain Esh Kelch, on 04 December 2020 - 01:16 AM, said:

(Note to self, don't google "two guys in sex cage" ever again)
Note to self, don't google "two guys in sex cage", ever.

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#19 nick68k

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Posted 04 December 2020 - 02:36 PM

View PostMatt Diamond, on 04 December 2020 - 02:31 PM, said:

Note to self, don't google "two guys in sex cage", ever.

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#20 the Battle Cat

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Posted 07 December 2020 - 12:54 PM

OK, I'm calling an end to the discussion of should we ban grey market links, and opening the discussion of what companies or outlets should be banned.  :Let's start a list.  I'll compile the list of their homepage links n this post from the entries in later posts.  Eventually I'll pin the list of names only to the IMG Website Network Feedback sub-forum.  When the smoke settles I'll add it to the agreement that all new members must digitally sign.

So, just ignore any sounds coming out of the sex cage and please start contributing links to the list.  I'll start out with Eneba:
=================================================================================================

Eneba
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