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64-bit apocalypse


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#41 Mr Pink

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 01:47 PM

Sad and surprising to see those two Tomb Raider games go.
Also weird, that LEGO Harry Potter 5-7 won't get an update, but 1-4 will.

#42 MrUNIMOG

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 02:05 AM

View PostMr Pink, on 04 December 2018 - 01:47 PM, said:

Sad and surprising to see those two Tomb Raider games go.
Also weird, that LEGO Harry Potter 5-7 won't get an update, but 1-4 will.
That makes me wonder, maybe not all is lost for the games that now get nixed? Perhaps there still is a chance they'll be updated at some point in the future, but for now it's just too many to update them all in time for the next big macOS release so Feral decided to pull those now to take out the pressure? I guess one can hope... :teehee:
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#43 MrUNIMOG

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 09:44 AM

In case anyone else was wondering the same, here's what Feral support wrote me concerning previously purchased Steam games that will have their Mac version removed:

Quote

Steam purchases will be handled in the same way as Mac App Store purchases. The Mac game data will still be available to customers after we cease sale of the listed titles which are currently available on Steam.

So that's also good news I guess. :)
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#44 Matt Diamond

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Posted 18 December 2018 - 02:31 PM

Turns out Apple may not be the biggest threat to our game libraries. Valve has announced that the Steam client will simply stop working on OS X 10.10 (Yosemite) and earlier on January 19th. Why? Because Google Chrome won't support them, and Valve is embedding Chrome in their client.

https://www.macrumor...pping-yosemite/

I admit I've been pretty complacent about relying on Steam. Sure, I like DRM-free, but it wasn't a hard-requirement for me. But this move is pretty disgusting. Yosemite is NOT OLD. I am on El Capitan thankfully, but Valve or Google could stop supporting it any time they feel like it.

All Valve needs to do is give us an alternative way to run our games. A small launcher that just does the DRM check Or let us run the old client with some features disabled. Something.

Assuming they don't restore my faith somehow, I'm going to try to avoid Steam from now on. I've just deleted my wishlist. But note that lots of vendors I might buy from are often just selling Steam keys. MacGameStore; Humble Bundle; even buying a digital copy of a Feral game from Feral gets you a Steam key.
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#45 mattw

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Posted 18 December 2018 - 03:35 PM

It would be worse I think if there was a hardware cut off at 10.10 but from what I remember everything could also then run 10.11. The next hardware cut off I think was High Sierra?

I know there are fans still of even 10.6 but realistically it is not a great idea to run that as a day to day OS (maybe in a VM or offline) because there are no security patches for OS releases older than 3 releases back these days and there are some well known holes. It makes it a bit of a risky proposition online with malware adverts etc. and a modern web browser is really required in many cases.
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#46 macdude22

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Posted 18 December 2018 - 03:51 PM

Xbox letting me download games from 2000 baby, and Crimson Skies is as good as ever.  :teehee:

To be fair to valve (and as much as it pains me Google) there's been so many engineering changes from 10.10 to 10.14 that supporting back that far is problematic. GoG galaxy requires 10.11 or later, though you can download the installers from the website for many games that will run on older OSs.

I agree that it would be nice if there would continue to be a feature limited version of steam running on these old platforms but I suspect the impacted customers is so low that it's not worth the development effort.
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#47 Matt Diamond

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Posted 19 December 2018 - 08:41 AM

View Postmacdude22, on 18 December 2018 - 03:51 PM, said:

I agree that it would be nice if there would continue to be a feature limited version of steam running on these old platforms but I suspect the impacted customers is so low that it's not worth the development effort.

That's the way that most companies would look at it, I agree. But a long-term view might see value in creating a fallback for all their customers. Done right it could allow Valve to sunset support for older versions of Windows a little sooner. It would also be a signal to customers that Valve takes players' investment in games on Steam seriously, and will do their best to not deprive owners from accessing their libraries. OS patch breaks the full Steam client for a week? In the meantime you can still run your games.

mattw said:

It would be worse I think if there was a hardware cut off at 10.10 but from what I remember everything could also then run 10.11. The next hardware cut off I think was High Sierra?
Excellent point. 7 years to obsolescence (effectively) isn't quite as bad as 5. Thanks for that reality check.

Quote

there are no security patches for OS releases older than 3 releases back .. It makes it a bit of a risky proposition online with malware adverts etc. and a modern web browser is really required in many cases.
Everything you say is true, but lets recall that I'm not browsing the web, I'm just trying to run my games. A series of decisions by Valve has led us to this moment, and while I can sympathize with the technical reasons for each decision, the final outcome is a bit ridiculous.

For me this is a wake up call. I'm glad I've been playing down my Steam backlog, and I will continue to do so, while minimizing future future Steam purchases.

macdude22 said:

Xbox letting me download games from 2000 baby, and Crimson Skies is as good as ever.
Console gaming does seem a more reliable investment, though it has its own risks *cough*RedRingofDeath*cough*.
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#48 Cougar

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Posted 19 December 2018 - 09:41 AM

Valve’s new UI (which has been partly implemented in Friends) is web-based. So the silver lining with this is I that I hope this means that by dropping legacy support (XP and Vista also won’t be supported) the client will finally get a complete facelift.

Of course, the proper way to do things is to write native UIs for each OS, but I’ve long given up on that ever happening.

#49 Matt Diamond

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Posted 19 December 2018 - 02:30 PM

This concludes our discussion on how Valve is about to destroy our games libraries.

We now return to our previous topic: how Apple is about to destroy our games libraries.
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#50 ipickert55

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Posted 19 December 2018 - 04:23 PM

View PostMatt Diamond, on 19 December 2018 - 02:30 PM, said:

This concludes our discussion on how Valve is about to destroy our games libraries.

We now return to our previous topic: how Apple is about to destroy our games libraries.

"You aren't allowed to play the games you bought from us"
Maybe it really is all cocks in the end.

#51 Matt Diamond

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Posted 03 June 2019 - 06:45 PM

Has there been any confirmation yet from WWDC that Catalina drops all support for 32-bit applications?
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#52 nick68k

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Posted 03 June 2019 - 09:20 PM

View PostMatt Diamond, on 03 June 2019 - 06:45 PM, said:

Has there been any confirmation yet from WWDC that Catalina drops all support for 32-bit applications?

There are reports of broken 32-bit apps on the Catalina beta .No official confirmation yet that 32-bit support has been dropped, but it's reasonable to assume this, and we should hear for certain in a day or two in any case.
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#53 macdude22

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Posted 03 June 2019 - 09:36 PM

https://developer.ap...s?language=objc

macOS frameworks are now thinned for the x86-64 architecture. Apps that execute i386 code now fail with the EBADARCH error code. The remaining stub frameworks are nonfunctional and exist only for compatibility purposes. (51236070)

32-bit is decidedly dead. Any 32-bit binaries that ARE still working are the bug/edge case.
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#54 UmarOMC1

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Posted 03 June 2019 - 10:03 PM

About This Mac… > System Report > Software > Legacy Software

Say goodbye to this list…
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#55 nick68k

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 03:01 PM

View Postmacdude22, on 03 June 2019 - 09:36 PM, said:

https://developer.ap...s?language=objc

macOS frameworks are now thinned for the x86-64 architecture. Apps that execute i386 code now fail with the EBADARCH error code. The remaining stub frameworks are nonfunctional and exist only for compatibility purposes. (51236070)

32-bit is decidedly dead. Any 32-bit binaries that ARE still working are the bug/edge case.

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#56 Cougar

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 04:28 PM

Anyone want to take bets on when Valve will finally make steam 64-bit?

#57 macdude22

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 05:38 PM

View PostCougar, on 04 June 2019 - 04:28 PM, said:

Anyone want to take bets on when Valve will finally make steam 64-bit?

It is 64-bit. There steam executable is 64-bit. For reasons I can only speculate are sheer pettiness on Valve's part the initial bootstrapper that you download is 32-bit. You can copy 64-bit executable into the App bundle in /Applications after the bootstrapper downloads and/or updates the full client.

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#58 Cougar

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 07:09 PM

View Postmacdude22, on 04 June 2019 - 05:38 PM, said:

It is 64-bit. There steam executable is 64-bit. For reasons I can only speculate are sheer pettiness on Valve's part the initial bootstrapper that you download is 32-bit. You can copy 64-bit executable into the App bundle in /Applications after the bootstrapper downloads and/or updates the full client.

https://steamcommuni...358239836500807

This is hilarious. Or sad, I'm not sure which. It is almost worse than them simply not having finished it yet.

OK, I'll revise my question: Anyone want to take bets on when Valve will fix the initial 32-bit bootstrapper?

#59 Janichsan

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 11:36 PM

View PostCougar, on 04 June 2019 - 07:09 PM, said:

This is hilarious. Or sad, I'm not sure which. It is almost worse than them simply not having finished it yet.

OK, I'll revise my question: Anyone want to take bets on when Valve will fix the initial 32-bit bootstrapper?
According to some conflicting reports I've seen the version of the launcher you can download now is also 64-bit, but I haven't checked yet myself.

While we are talking about Steam and 32-bit apps, I'm wondering what the hell is up with the Mac version of Civ V on Steam. Aspyr has updated the MAS of the game to 64 bit, but there's no trace of that update on Steam or even any activity indicating a future release. I've tried to coax any answer from Aspyr through various means (forums, Twitter, support site) but got no reply.

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#60 Mr Pink

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 10:10 AM

View Postmacdude22, on 03 June 2019 - 09:36 PM, said:

32-bit is decidedly dead. Any 32-bit binaries that ARE still working are the bug/edge case.

So Aspyr... any news on which games will be updated to 64-bit and which games will be removed from sale?
Feral clarified that long ago.