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macOS 10.13 - High Sierra


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#21 Janichsan

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 02:16 PM

View PostIchigo27, on 29 September 2017 - 01:05 PM, said:

I completely forgot to download sierra from the appstore, now 10.11 and 12 are gone.
El Capitan is definitely not gone: it's still in your "Purchases" list in the MAS, as it's tied to your Apple ID.

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#22 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 30 September 2017 - 04:29 AM

Sierra though is not present in the App Store anymore though, so unless you downloaded an installer and kept it, then you are out of luck.
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#23 UmarOMC1

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Posted 30 September 2017 - 12:04 PM

An interesting article from Bombich Software, creators of Carbon Copy Cloner; Think twice before encrypting your HFS+ volumes on High Sierra

With no warning, if you choose to turn on encryption on a hard drive with no installation of macOS on it, it will be changed to an APFS drive then have encryption enabled.
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#24 Spike

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Posted 30 September 2017 - 12:15 PM

For those who want Sierra installer:
This macrumors.com site has a comment from farewelwilliams that gives a direct link as well as a comment from jasminetroll which gives instructions how to download Sierra installer.

Im not touching High Sierra for quite a while since Apple is forcing APFS.

#25 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 30 September 2017 - 01:10 PM

I don't mind APFS, on the contrary, as it seems they made it solid out the door (As required), but I do mind the truck load of minor bugs High Sierra seems to have.
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#26 Janichsan

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Posted 07 October 2017 - 02:38 PM

So, well, what are your experiences with High Sierra and games?

I can summarise mine with one word: popsnizzle.

Pretty much every game I tried runs like crap: Hitman, Grid 2, Borderlands 2, Kerbal Space Program, Euro Truck Simulator 2, War Thunder (in OpenGL mode), Elder Scrolls Online – none achieves more than something around 15 to 20 fps. That's when they are not freezing or crashing (like War Thunder in Metal mode). The few exceptions that seem to run fine are Empire at War, XCOM, International Snooker 2012 and Minecraft.

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#27 Mr Pink

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Posted 07 October 2017 - 03:09 PM

Here are lists from Aspyr and Feral about known issues of some of their games when using High Sierra.

I just finished SW:TFU once again, which was completely unplayable for me in Sierra.
No issues with it in High Sierra, not even the one Aspyr mentions in the article.

#28 Tetsuya

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 12:45 PM

View PostThain Esh Kelch, on 30 September 2017 - 01:10 PM, said:

I don't mind APFS, on the contrary, as it seems they made it solid out the door (As required), but I do mind the truck load of minor bugs High Sierra seems to have.

Got a link to a good list?  

And, if i dont need to worry about bootcamp (i dont; i just use a VM for Windows-on-Mac), is there any reason to worry about APFS?

#29 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 01:34 PM

View PostTetsuya, on 08 October 2017 - 12:45 PM, said:

Got a link to a good list?  

And, if i dont need to worry about bootcamp (i dont; i just use a VM for Windows-on-Mac), is there any reason to worry about APFS?

Frost had some issues with VMware Fusion 10 in this thread: http://www.insidemac...showtopic=48495
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#30 Janichsan

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 01:52 PM

View PostSneaky Snake, on 08 October 2017 - 01:34 PM, said:

Frost had some issues with VMware Fusion 10 in this thread: http://www.insidemac...showtopic=48495
Which is actually a relatively minor problem and fixable (I found you don't even have to modify the .vmdk file as described in the Knowledge Base article I linked to in that thread).

However, I think High Sierra might be the first major OS X/macOS upgrade I will roll back and won't install again until (probably much) later.

I know from discussions on MacRumors that, when High Sierra was announced, I wasn't alone to expect a Snow Leopard-like system upgrade with mostly under-the-hood improvements. Snow Leopard wasn't perfect when it came out and caused a bunch of problems initially, but the advantages it brought (e.g. smaller footprint on the hard drive, better performance) outweighed the disadvantages.

High Sierra currently only has disadvantages for me. I see no reason to use it at the moment.

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#31 macdude22

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 03:57 PM

View PostTetsuya, on 08 October 2017 - 12:45 PM, said:

Got a link to a good list?  

And, if i dont need to worry about bootcamp (i dont; i just use a VM for Windows-on-Mac), is there any reason to worry about APFS?

I have my list of bugs logged from work, will that help. :teehee:


• AD mobile accounts are not able to change their passwords from the Mac

• When upgrading a client to 10.13 that is AD bound the mobile account cache credentials get lost during the update. If a user does not have local credentials a user cannot login until returning on site to a network that can communicate with a domain controller

• IRKs don’t work on APFS formatted volumes

• There are a number of senarios we have tested where a user does not get secureToken enablement and the user will be unable to be set as a FileVault unlock user until it receives a secureToken grant. This affects all mobile accounts and users created through automated processes (e.g. createmobileaccount and sysadminctl). Affected users can be secureToken enabled manually, but this is not feasible for hundreds of endpoints.

• On APFS formatted volumes  if the PRK is used to unlock a mac the reset password prompt after unlock does NOT enable the new password to unlock the volume.

• SKEL was going to be a prickly point but MDM enrolled clients are walked back to 10.12 behavior while Apple adds additional MDM functionality. https://support.appl.../en-us/HT208019

High Sierra has SMB fixes that resolve 2 issues I wrote about here https://macdude22.wo...8/tales-of-smb/

Performance seems appreciably worse on non Metal capable hardware (like my 2011 Mini w/HD3000).
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#32 Frost

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 09:08 PM

View PostJanichsan, on 08 October 2017 - 01:52 PM, said:

Which is actually a relatively minor problem and fixable (I found you don't even have to modify the .vmdk file as described in the Knowledge Base article I linked to in that thread).

However, I think High Sierra might be the first major OS X/macOS upgrade I will roll back and won't install again until (probably much) later.

I know from discussions on MacRumors that, when High Sierra was announced, I wasn't alone to expect a Snow Leopard-like system upgrade with mostly under-the-hood improvements. Snow Leopard wasn't perfect when it came out and caused a bunch of problems initially, but the advantages it brought (e.g. smaller footprint on the hard drive, better performance) outweighed the disadvantages.

High Sierra currently only has disadvantages for me. I see no reason to use it at the moment.

Me, after Sierra's stellar release (I had skipped Yosemite and El Cap), I figured Apple got their groove back and the software guys no longer had an anal-rectal inversion going on. Sierra finally got me to dump Mavericks by being so fast and killing dead some compatibility issues I'd had for a while with the previous two.

Whoops. Anal-rectal inversion is back and I already upgraded. Not worth the trouble to downgrade at this point for me so, eh, whatever.

Regarding Fusion, my Boot Camp-based VM would not function with SIP reenabled without modding the vmdk.
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#33 Tetsuya

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 06:46 AM

View PostSneaky Snake, on 08 October 2017 - 01:34 PM, said:

Frost had some issues with VMware Fusion 10 in this thread: http://www.insidemac...showtopic=48495

Yeah, that was booting a Bootcamp partition into Fusion, though.  

I dont do that, i just have a plain-old VM.  If i need to boot native Windows, i have a ~2000$ gaming PC sitting here i can use.

#34 Spike

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 11:24 AM

Recently read that APFS also does not fully support fast catalog searching, which is used by searching tools that I use since Apple does not search within bundles etc..

Anyway, I found an Apple Support article about how to download 10.12 Sierra. I am so glad I never downloaded 10.13 with its forcing of APFS conversion :) .

#35 Cougar

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 04:06 PM

View PostIchigo27, on 29 September 2017 - 01:05 PM, said:

I completely forgot to download sierra from the appstore, now 10.11 and 12 are gone. I thought about making a partition on another external drive, has anyone had experiences using 10.13, or is it plagued with bugs and incompatibility issues?

Curious about feedback from people on this forum.

In case you weren't aware, Apple added Sierra back to the MAS.

#36 Spike

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 08:54 PM

A great article on OWC blog "The Speed of APFS: Just How Fast Is It?"

I found how to install 10.13 without converting to APFS, so I might update to 10.13 when 10.13.2 or 10.13.3 is released. I have also read how many have games playing slowly with it currently.

#37 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 05:09 AM

In most tests I have seen, APFS is slower than HFS+, but that was likely to be expected due to all the additional features it incorporates on the fly.,
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#38 Spike

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 06:53 PM

AAR Report.

After 10.13.3 was released, I was going to try it and install on an external drive to check out. To bypass the APFS conversion, I ran the installer in terminal and after agreeing to the licensing, it immediately installed on my internal drive - no drive selection anywhere! No cancel or abort! No Warnings at all! After many swear words at Apple, my internal SSD is now 10.13.3.

First thing I noticed was how much slower everything is. Windows and graphics were slow, and finder copying was dreadfully slow. I switched to CCC to backup and it copied in ¼ the time rate as the Finder. Currently playing Guild Wars 2 and it ran a lot slower with major stuttering. Ran War Thunder and it was unplayably slow, but saw that it defaulted to Metal and I know I have the Nvidia problems so for my 2012 MacBook with Nvidia 650M WT Pacific Day Low graphic settings 1920x1200:
10.11.6 OGL: Ave 83.1, Min 54.7, Rat 19018
10.13.3 OGL: Ave 76.4, Min 46.1, Rat 17491
10.13.3 Metal: Ave 35.3, Min 25.4, Rat 8073

I ended up adding a partition and installing 10.11.6 back on as my main startup partition. So warning again for anyone else thinking they want to install 10.13.3 on an external drive and bypass APFS!

edit: Also 10.13.3 had many crashes last couple days and one crash destroyed my flash drive that now wont format.

#39 jeannot

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 12:06 AM

Another nVidia-specfic problem with Metal, it seems.
Metal is quite a bit faster than openGL in warthunder benchmarks on my radeon iMac or Intel HD6000 MacBook Air.

#40 Togglemeister

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Posted 27 March 2018 - 09:42 PM

I had more luck with Blackguards 2 and Spore running with El Captain. Since I have upgraded to High Sierra both games don't work.
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