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#21 macdude22

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Posted 25 April 2020 - 08:28 AM

People who enjoy gaming get a console. People who enjoy building cars get a PC. Life is too short for fraking around with Windows drivers.
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#22 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 25 April 2020 - 09:56 AM

Drivers are actually pretty good in PC land these days other then AMD's recent driver issues with the 5700 series in Windows.

Used to be big pain dealing with stuff but now things just kind of work without much effort.
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#23 macdude22

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Posted 25 April 2020 - 11:45 AM

Or, work with me here, you could have 0 effort with a console. PC people want everyone to be as miserable as them so they try to convince everyone its the way.
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#24 Cougar

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Posted 25 April 2020 - 12:46 PM

If you want simplicity, get a console. If you want flexibility and power, get a PC. If you want a good OS, get a Mac. Get what makes you happy. Let others enjoy what makes them happy.

Edited by Janichsan, 26 April 2020 - 05:57 AM.
Stop making it personal.


#25 Matt Diamond

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Posted 25 April 2020 - 04:00 PM

I enjoy gaming on my Mac.

There. I said it.
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#26 UmarOMC1

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Posted 25 April 2020 - 09:18 PM

View PostCamper-Hunter, on 25 April 2020 - 06:29 AM, said:

Umar, you're so close to understand you should either build a hackintosh, or buy/build a PC and switch to Windows. Trust me, I've been there before. ;) For some people and usages, Apple simply doesn't have a compelling hardware offer anymore (and in some cases software too), and there's no other way than looking for alternatives (which obviously have their drawbacks too, like everything).
Have you seen my signature? :ph34r: Considering the headaches this MacPro has given along with the weighty cost it doesn't offer bang for buck over a Hackintosh. Some seem to consistently pigeonhole my point of view to "if you want to just game get a console" but, alas, I want to have a computing box that I'd like to do other than gaming with if that's okay with anyone else although I'm sure people that are concerned only with gaming are utilizing this forum from their PlayStations…and it appears that questioning Apple's moves and product lines provokes what I can only see as fanboism reaction that appear to mirror the vitriol I see in comments from the PC fanbois whose modus operandi is "Macs suck!" "You can't game on Macs!" It's disappointing because I expect it from that fan base. If it's being suggested that I just get a console or gaming PC it's the equivalent of "If you don't like it, leave!" That's not constructive criticism, that's fanboism.

I can "game" on any Mac…but I'd like to have hardware behind it to play AAA titles with good frame rates at 2560x1440, which I can presently, the "Apple Tax" has gotten SO damn much higher. With the financial bar set so high for end users I understand Aspyr hedging their bets elsewhere.

I agree, every option has drawbacks, I guess I'm surprised that pointing some out draws such ire (imagine Apple reacted the same way to Guy Kawasaki? They would have never hired him as an Apple Evangelist)—at least we're all passionate about it! lol
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#27 Janichsan

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Posted 26 April 2020 - 12:02 AM

There's a lot of hostility flying around in this discussion...

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#28 Janichsan

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Posted 26 April 2020 - 05:59 AM

Seriously guys, keep it civil.

You can disagree over the matter all you want, but stop dragging this down to a personal level.

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#29 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 26 April 2020 - 10:28 AM

View Postmacdude22, on 25 April 2020 - 11:45 AM, said:

Or, work with me here, you could have 0 effort with a console. PC people want everyone to be as miserable as them so they try to convince everyone its the way.

Consoles are slowly becoming more like PC's and PC's are slowly becoming more like consoles.

In the old days with consoles (everything prior to 360/PS3) you simply put your game in and played. Nowadays if you leave you console off for a few weeks and then boot it up when you finally have a night off you can expect 10+ GB's of updates that have to be installed and maybe even an OS/firmware update for the console. It all happens automatically of course but it might mean the game you were planning on playing that evening needs a massive update that will take a few hours to download and install.

Custom building a PC definitely isn't for everyone, but for those people who don't want to custom build something they can easily just utilize something like NZXT's BLD site
  • NZXT asks you to pick a few games you want to play

  • You either name your price, or select one of the popular price points

  • NZXT tells you what framerate to expect in those games you picked

  • NZXT builds and tests the system for you, and backs it with a 2 year warranty

  • You get shipped the PC, turn it on, and start gaming
For example, their "starter PC plus" for $999 is actually slightly cheaper then me buying all of the identical components and building it myself. Now I wouldn't make the identical part choices (ex: the i5 9400F doesn't need a $100 CPU cooler) but I'm just illustrating that it is very price competitive with building it yourself, especially when you factor in that you can just boot it up immediately with no assembly required and that they back it with a 2 year warranty.

Console gaming is obviously still the easier setup overall, but just barely I would say. PC gaming gets simpler every year and console gaming gets more complex every generation.

I have many friends who know literally nothing about computers and have been happily gaming for years on their gaming PC's. The only thing they have to learn how to do is press "yes" every month or so when the graphics card asks to auto-install the newest driver, which really isn't any more complex then console players having to press "yes" on the monthly firmware update.

Each to their own, but I firmly stand behind PC gaming being extremely easy and something that even the most tech illiterate person can easily do.
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#30 jos

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Posted 26 April 2020 - 11:57 AM

I enjoy gaming, but I'd never buy a console. I can't stand using a controller for anything else than side-scrollers, football games (soccer games for those on the other side of the Atlantic) and racing games. I really don't understand how someone can play first-person shooters using a controller. I like first-person shooters, third-person shooters and real-time strategy games. I'd never want to play these games with anything else than a keyboard and mouse, so a console is completely out of the question for me.

What Sneaky Snake says is also completely true. Recently, a colleague of mine bought a PlayStation 4 plus GTA V (or whatever is the most recent game in this series). The next morning I asked him if he'd been playing GTA V all night long. He didn't, because he had to download tens of Gigabytes before he could start playing the game. I said: "But you bought the game on a disc, so why did you still have to download tens of Gigabytes?" Well, apparently you can no longer just insert your disc and start playing the game you've just bought. To me this was the only positive thing about consoles. Just insert your cartridge of Super Mario World in your SNES or insert your disc of Driver 2 into your PlayStation and start playing.

If using a console is such a hassle I really don't see the point of buying one. If you've got to wait for many hours for all of those updates (those of the console itself and those of the games) to download, why wouldn't you just buy a PC? It's much more versatile, much easier to use (when I see the user interface of modern consoles I really can't see how they'd ever be easier to use than a PC, plus you'd even have to use your controller to navigate through the console's user interface) and you can just use your keyboard and mouse to play your games (and if you really want to you can just use a controller as well). Why anyone'd ever want to use a console is really beyond me.

Of course, when I say "PC" I don't necessarily mean we Mac users have to go and buy a Windows PC. When someone wants to play games and he's not sure wether to buy a console or a PC I wouldn't tell him to buy a Mac. Of course, I'm a Mac user, so as a Mac user that's also the platform where I'd like to play all of my games. However, my favourite platform doesn't have this massive library of available games that Windows has. The number of Mac users is just much smaller than that of Windows users, so I'm just using the term "PC". Wether that "PC" is running macOS, Windows or even Linux is completely up to the person's personal preference.

I'm a Mac person and that's the platform I prefer to play my games. However, I've also got a Windows laptop for some games that aren't available for the Mac. I hate Windows, so I'm only using it to occasionally play one of those Windows games and other than that it's not used at all. At the moment I'm playing Serious Sam: The First Encounter, so I boot it up a couple of times a week just for this game. However, when I'm playing a game on my Mac I don't boot it up for several months. I've disabled Windows Updates, updates of drivers and all of that stuff, so I don't have to bother with any of that stuff. I only boot it up when I want to play a game, so then I immediately want to start playing. I don't want Windows or nVidia nagging me with their updates.

It's completely safe, because I don't even connect it to the internet. Well, except for downloading the game I want to play from GOG. I browse GOG just from my Mac and when I see a game I'd like to buy I just buy it from my Mac. Later, when I want to play one of those game I've bought, I boot up the Windows laptop, connect to the internet, download the game from GOG (which for many of those games takes less than a minute) and immediately disconnect again. I'm a single-player person and those old games don't need the latest drivers or Windows Updates, so there's no need for me to spend any time maintaining this laptop. Just download and install the game and start playing. Just like in the old days. I'd rather play Serious Sam: The First Encounter like this than to play GTA V on a PlayStation 4.

#31 Frost

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Posted 02 May 2020 - 05:39 PM

View PostMatt Diamond, on 25 April 2020 - 04:00 PM, said:

I enjoy gaming on my Mac.

There. I said it.

I used to, but I did not enjoy uninstalling all my old 32-bit classics with Catalina that I still had fun playing when on the go on my MBP. I have literally like 10% of the games I had prior, but this is primarily a work machine so I needed to upgrade. The vast majority of my 64-bit games are too graphically intensive to actually run properly on my laptop, so most of the other 10% is not playable at an enjoyable level. Apple finally killed off the last of my Mac gaming this past year. I'm down to the StarCrafts, Heroes of the Storm, Uplink, Wasteland 2, and a small handful of others if I want to play at all on my Mac without streaming. :(

I could make a partition with an older Mac OS just for gaming, but eeeegh. I'd bother with that if it was my only computer.

View PostSneaky Snake, on 26 April 2020 - 10:28 AM, said:

Consoles are slowly becoming more like PC's and PC's are slowly becoming more like consoles.

You're never going to get anywhere, somebody's schtick is insisting PC gaming is still in 2008 and the closed system of consoles is the antidote. :P

FWIW I did agree back then and switched to console gaming in '07 and was totally happy with it till around 2013. You can look at my posting history to see what a big console devotee I was at the time.

I got sick of the exclusives wars, the unreliable, dying hardware (I went through 3 fat PS3s, 2 Xbox 360s, and my launch PS4 developed the self-pressing eject button issue and had to be replaced), and the 8th gen turned out to be weaker than most laptops in contrast to being performance competitive with budget gaming PCs as in the 7th gen. PC gaming is plug and play now, I don't have to use the input method I'm told to use, I can use whatever the hell I like the most, I don't have to pay a fee to use my internet connection that I'm already paying my ISP for, my hardware doesn't cook itself to death every few years, etc. Plus having my library wiped out every few years and having to play musical consoles if I felt in the mood for an older game also got old.

It boils down to if you want TOTAL simplicity in exchange for a locked down experience where everything but the game you're playing is dictated to you by the manufacturer, console's nice. You like VASTLY better freedom of choice and software support, and aren't reduced to utter confusion by pressing "express install" and waiting 2 minutes on your GPU drivers once every few months, PC gaming's for you.

If you want to be regularly butting heads with Apple's obtuse, uncaring management (who apparently think all anyone wants to do in their free time is edit photos of their kids and post on fakebook) to the point even the big gaming houses from the Mac gaming good old days of the mid-90s to the mid-2000s are throwing up their hands in frustration and branching out, or just going bankrupt, sadly that's the current state of affairs of Mac gaming.
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#32 Janichsan

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Posted 03 May 2020 - 01:17 AM

View PostFrost, on 02 May 2020 - 05:39 PM, said:

If you want to be regularly butting heads with Apple's obtuse, uncaring management (who apparently think all anyone wants to do in their free time is edit photos of their kids and post on fakebook) to the point even the big gaming houses from the Mac gaming good old days of the mid-90s to the mid-2000s are throwing up their hands in frustration and branching out, or just going bankrupt, sadly that's the current state of affairs of Mac gaming.
The situation certainly won't become better when Apple switches the Mac to ARM CPUs (which for all means and purposes except maybe bigger earnings would be an idiotic move in general). That shortly after the 32-bit apocalypse this will be the ultimate death blow by making the remainder of existing Mac games unplayable – save for a couple of ports of mobile games, maybe.

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#33 macdude22

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Posted 03 May 2020 - 01:28 AM

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#34 UmarOMC1

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Posted 03 May 2020 - 02:09 AM


"Apple's Next Failure" —Snazzy Labs
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#35 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 03 May 2020 - 09:40 PM

That SnazzyLabs video is eerily on point for everything discussed in this thread. Great video.

Apple buying Valve would be hilarious. I'm imagining the absolute meltdown that the internet would have over that. Obviously the chance of that happening is virtually 0% but it's fun to think about. Apple can afford it, but nothing in their product line seems to indicate any sort of gaming focus. I could see some sort of partnership with Valve to bring Proton to macOS, but I'm guessing if that did happen it would be one of those things that is announced and hyped for a few months and then would slowly fizzle out into nothing a year later.

Umar I noticed in your signature that you are using a consumer Radeon VII card - how have you found it's performance in macOS and bootcamp gaming? Any strange driver issues or is it working as expected?
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#36 UmarOMC1

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Posted 04 May 2020 - 02:56 AM

View PostSneaky Snake, on 03 May 2020 - 09:40 PM, said:

Apple buying Valve would be hilarious. I'm imagining the absolute meltdown that the internet would have over that.

View PostSneaky Snake, on 03 May 2020 - 09:40 PM, said:

Umar I noticed in your signature that you are using a consumer Radeon VII card - how have you found it's performance in macOS and bootcamp gaming? Any strange driver issues or is it working as expected?
Actually, and I didn't find out until I purchased a 5700XT, I can't get a boot screen from the Radeon VII at this time—I see the Apple logo during boot, etc. but trying to use any key combos during boot fails. Apparently I have one of the Radeon VIIs that came with a slightly borked VBIOS. It works for others. I should be able to flash it to fix this but the only tools are available to Windows and Linux, neither which I currently have. Depending on the game I'm playing, most notably Dying Light, I don't know what's happening (the VBIOS issue or some overheating) but the Radeon VII would slow to a snail's pace with visual artifacts at random times. The 5700XT, on the other hand, works quite a bit better with Dying Light. With Borderlands 3 the Radeon VII performed better and gave no problems. Ironically, reading through that MacRumors thread, I see multiple users having problems with their W5700X MPX cards, God knows but I feel the most vocal are the ones having problems so I'd be sure it works fine for most owners. I'm fairly happy with the 5700XT otherwise. I still get random hangs in the Finder with it, much as I did with the Radeon VII. Another thing to consider is the Radeon VII is EOL so who knows how much updating the drivers for it will get.

Only my 2009 MacPro is BootCamped—with Win7 Pro. I'll probably get another HDD for the Hackintosh and install Linux/Proton and game on that.
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