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The Bootcamp that wouldn't die


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#21 the Battle Cat

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Posted 23 May 2016 - 09:08 AM

View PostCamper-Hunter, on 22 May 2016 - 11:45 PM, said:

Other than try again, nope. Well, it seems my Mac Pro has less issues now that I've cleaned up my boot drives: I used to have 5 or 6 bootable partitions (10.6, 10.7 or 8, 10.9, 10.10 or 10.11, Windows XP, Windows 7), and I reduced to 3 (10.6, 10.11, Windows 10) and remade my bootcamp partition in the process. So if you have a plethora of boot drives, it may be time to destroy some.

I have 3 backup drives, each are clones of the main drive, nightly back up, weekly backup and monthly.  There is only one partition in each of the drives.

View PostFrost, on 22 May 2016 - 11:59 PM, said:

I think this would be a good time to open up Disk Utility and run those disk checks and permissions repairs on your Mac OS drive. Make sure everything is a-okay in that department. You really should not have had anything like that problem in the first place, so that's why that worries me.

K, did that and got a butt load of permissions repaired.  Still hangs on an option key reboot.

View Postmattw, on 23 May 2016 - 05:49 AM, said:

If there is a disk on the way out you can get these freezes, i.e it is trying to recognise it.

Can anyone lone or make a USB flash drive to boot from or do you have a compatible older OS on DVD?

I suppose I could make one.  How does one go about rebooting onto a DVD or USB flash drive?  I don't have any reboot disk options from Windows.  That's just wacked, Windows won't let you select a startup disk?  How can that be?  It's a basic thing.  While I'm on the topic, why the hell don't they make bootable DVDs anymore?
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#22 macdude22

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Posted 23 May 2016 - 09:21 AM

I don't think this is indicative of any specific hardware failure. In my experience the quirky option boot on Mac Pros occurs most frequently when the thing is loaded with drives. I'm not sure if EFI on these models has trouble identifying multiple drives/partitions/logical volumes or what.  When it has occurred I've pulled all the drives but the primary boot drive. Set the startup disk to the primary boot drive. Then reinserted all the ancillary drives.

Still a better deal than when windows would periodically kill the trackpad on my macbook until you disconnect the battery. Eventually got sick of it and just uninstalled windows.
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#23 DirtyHarry50

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Posted 23 May 2016 - 12:02 PM

View PostBootchump, on 22 May 2016 - 03:02 PM, said:

I think I'll have something special cooked up for you by the time I get back, my little dumpling.  I've been wondering if it's possible for the Tantalus device to just take a bite out of someone instead of sending them to the cornfield.  I think I found my crash test lab rat.  I'll put a little aluminum helmet on you first so it looks scientific.

Don't forget to sponge my head with plenty of water first.
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#24 the Battle Cat

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Posted 23 May 2016 - 01:46 PM

Don't you worry your pre

View Postmacdude22, on 23 May 2016 - 09:21 AM, said:

I don't think this is indicative of any specific hardware failure. In my experience the quirky option boot on Mac Pros occurs most frequently when the thing is loaded with drives. I'm not sure if EFI on these models has trouble identifying multiple drives/partitions/logical volumes or what.  When it has occurred I've pulled all the drives but the primary boot drive. Set the startup disk to the primary boot drive. Then reinserted all the ancillary drives.

OK, I'll give that a shot and let you know.

View PostDirtyHarry50, on 23 May 2016 - 12:02 PM, said:

Don't forget to sponge my head with plenty of water first.

Don't you worry your pretty little head about that, you'll be plenty conductive floating in a tub of T-Rex urine.
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#25 DirtyHarry50

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Posted 23 May 2016 - 06:15 PM

View Postthe Battle Cat, on 23 May 2016 - 01:46 PM, said:

Don't you worry your pretty little head about that, you'll be plenty conductive floating in a tub of T-Rex urine.

Oh, good. That's a relief. We don't want another scene like that one from, "The Green Mile." Just remember, it's all fun and games until the smell of me frying reaches your kitty whiskers.

By the way, any chance we can just talk this over? I mean, I was just fooling you know. I mean, I was just trying to make you smile while in the depths of your suffering with my glib little comments as you agonize over the system that won't boot right and stuff. I thought I was being rather empathetic actually, kind even.
“The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time.” — Bertrand Russell

#26 the Battle Cat

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Posted 24 May 2016 - 08:31 AM

You are simply trying to obfuscate the fact that you haven't played Borderlands, that's when this whole civilization destroying cycle of retribution and jihad began.  I say this day onto you, thy soul stands naked before Gearbox, how can thee deign hide thine grievous sin from them??
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#27 Tetsuya

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Posted 24 May 2016 - 02:12 PM

View Postthe Battle Cat, on 23 May 2016 - 09:08 AM, said:

I don't have any reboot disk options from Windows.

last time i used Bootcamp (admitedly a while ago) Bootcamp installed a control panel pane that was a clone of OSX's Startup Disk thing.  

Quote

  That's just wacked, Windows won't let you select a startup disk?  How can that be?  It's a basic thing.

The rest of the world (literally) handles it via a bootloader.  The way OSX/Apple does things is actually the odd-man out in the real world.  

Quote

  While I'm on the topic, why the hell don't they make bootable DVDs anymore?

Because most computers (particularly Apple computers) dont ship with a media drive and haven't for several years.

#28 the Battle Cat

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Posted 24 May 2016 - 06:20 PM

View PostTetsuya, on 24 May 2016 - 02:12 PM, said:

last time i used Bootcamp (admitedly a while ago) Bootcamp installed a control panel pane that was a clone of OSX's Startup Disk thing.  

That wasn't working right so I took it out.  Just rebooting from Windows always put me back into OS X so I didn't need it.  I thought of this during my struggle but I have no idea of what it was named or where to look to run it and put it back into my task bar.

View PostTetsuya, on 24 May 2016 - 02:12 PM, said:

The rest of the world (literally) handles it via a bootloader.  The way OSX/Apple does things is actually the odd-man out in the real world.  

I'll be a son of a female dog.  All this time I've lived a protected life.  I feel like Bioshock Elizabeth seeing the world with her own eyes for the first time.  I've heard BootPicker tossed around as a Mac boot bootloader.  Is that an option for a senile old cat?  I basically just want to hop between 2 disks for gaming.  Don't need anything fancy.

View PostTetsuya, on 24 May 2016 - 02:12 PM, said:

Because most computers (particularly Apple computers) dont ship with a media drive and haven't for several years.

Too soon Apple!  Too SOON!! You should be shipping with Blu-Ray read/write media drives.
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#29 DirtyHarry50

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Posted 25 May 2016 - 01:38 AM

Apple gave me a SuperDrive for free when they replaced my 2011 iMac and I did use it one time to burn a Johnny Mathis CD for my mother. Thanks Apple!
“The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time.” — Bertrand Russell

#30 the Battle Cat

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 03:47 PM

OK, I've removed all but the main drive, set the startup disk, then reinserted the remaining 3 drives.  I get an error from Bootchamp saying:

Attached File  Bootchamp error.png   123.62K   13 downloads

Bootchamp was giving me that error before I messed with the drives just so you know it's nothing new and not related to my corrective action performed above.

What now oh godlike nerds?  I'll give you a moment to re-tape your glasses for this one, but know this, I'd like to at least hear some technobabble before you give up and tell me it's user error.
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#31 macdude22

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 05:14 PM

Did you recently update to 10.11? Bless is SIP protected in 10.11, If bootchamp was working under 10.11 you had some NVRAM magic going on.

http://kainjow.tumblr.com

You may just have to rely on system preferences under 10.11.
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#32 Frost

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 06:00 PM

View Postthe Battle Cat, on 02 June 2016 - 03:47 PM, said:

What now oh godlike nerds?  I'll give you a moment to re-tape your glasses for this one

I'll defer to the nerd with glasses. I failed that hurdle at birth, sadly, so I can never join the ranks of the truly elite.
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Eric5h5:
When there's a multiplayer version, I'm going to be on Frost's team. Well, except he doesn't seem to actually need a team...I mean, what's the point? "Hey look, it's Frost and His Merry Gang of Useless Hangers-On!" Or something.

#33 the Battle Cat

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 06:36 PM

Yes I recently updated to 10.11.5.  I was hoping removing all the drives and setting the startup disk again might cure my Option key startup problem but no.  I just now restarted with the option key and it still hangs before giving me a selection.

What system preferences under 10.11 can I use?  If I set the startup disk to be Windows and reboot, I'm stuck in Windows like I was last time.  Apple won't weaken their security to make an exception so Bootchamp can't change their code to work with SIP in a desktop Mac Pro, and why the hell is Apple using iPhone technology in a desktop Mac Pro?  Two different animals with two different needs.

Can Windows set the startup disk before reboot?  There is no Windows or third party app or procedure to set the startup disk?  

And lastly, is there a way to jump back to the Mavericks version?  Or am I FRAKING hosed and have to build a gaming PC?  I've already got the SSHD with Windows installed so I have the start of a new rig.  Now all I need is a kick ass PC to go around it.
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#34 DirtyHarry50

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 07:00 PM

Never mind this. Go read my post in off topic and help me. The cat got himself into this mess and he can get himself out of it too. I on the other hand am an innocent victim of circumstance sort of... honest!
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#35 macdude22

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 07:04 PM

If you are comfortable with it, you can disable SIP which would probably cajole BootChamp back to life. Bear in mind it will get re-enabled if PRAM(NVRAM) is reset. I assume any other boot loader like reFind will have the same issue.

Does your Mac Pro not support the BootCamp application for the version of windows you are running?

https://support.appl.../en-us/HT204048

The only other option is the option boot that is inevitably sketchy on our Mac Pros.

Rich has a good write up of how SIP fits into Apple's security model.

https://derflounder....security-model/

The Old Mac Milt in me doesn't like SIP walling off some things, the Office in me says hot damn people and malicious actors can't frak up hospital machines no matter how hard they try.

TBH I bought this 144hz ASUS monitor and hooked up my PC and 360 and Mac Pro but I haven't really booted the wandows PC in months. It's either been OS X or xBone. Easier to play something on the lapterp in the kitchen then hole up in the office. I should prioritize any wandows only games I have on the list to play and then put it back in the basement to save space up here.
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#36 DirtyHarry50

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 07:04 PM

View Postthe Battle Cat, on 02 June 2016 - 06:36 PM, said:

I've already got the SSHD with Windows installed so I have the start of a new rig.  Now all I need is a kick ass PC to go around it.

I have a nice gaming laptop you might be interested in when I get it fixed up (see topic I mentioned) and once I am all set with it I could give you a sweet deal on it.
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#37 macdude22

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 07:07 PM

You might be able to reinstall 10.9 and restore your user data from a time machine backup but I've never tried going backwards like that. Only forwards, twirling toward freedom. errrr. in this case not freedom.
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#38 Frost

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 09:18 PM

Going backwards shouldn't be too problematic if you do a manual move of your user data from the user folder (clean install OSX, create new user, move data from user folder by hand). Affected applications would be anything Apple makes other than Safari and iTunes, and anything whose current version is incompatible with Mavericks. Luckily that means the vast majority of things will go backwards without issue.

I'm still on Mavericks on my MBP because it just plain makes a better work OS for a power user than Yosemite and El Cap have been. Especially for a guy like me who is a lot more on the hardware end than software. What the frakking frak is that gimped ass POS El Cap disk utility anyway? It's like Disk Utility for Dummies. The guy that made that needs his eyeballs removed with a poker.
Cypher (PowerMac G5 Quad) – 2x2.5 GHz PPC 970MP / 16GB ECC RAM / 1TB WDC Velociraptor, 2TB STX Constellation ES.2 / QuadroFX 4500 512MB
Kestrel (Falcon NW Tiki) – 4.0 GHz i7 4790K / 16GB RAM / 512GB Samsung 950 Pro M.2, 2x480GB Intel 730 (RAID0), 10TB STX BarraCuda Pro / GeForce GTX TITAN X 12GB
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Antimony (PowerBook G4 Titanium) – 1.0 GHz PPC 7455 / 1GB RAM / 512GB Crucial M550 / Radeon 9000 64MB

Eric5h5:
When there's a multiplayer version, I'm going to be on Frost's team. Well, except he doesn't seem to actually need a team...I mean, what's the point? "Hey look, it's Frost and His Merry Gang of Useless Hangers-On!" Or something.

#39 the Battle Cat

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 09:36 PM

View PostDirtyHarry50, on 02 June 2016 - 07:00 PM, said:

Never mind this. Go read my post in off topic and help me. The cat got himself into this mess and he can get himself out of it too. I on the other hand am an innocent victim of circumstance sort of... honest!

First I need to suck up to the forum Admin by helping him with his innocent circumstance.  I'll check this out though.

View Postmacdude22, on 02 June 2016 - 07:04 PM, said:

If you are comfortable with it, you can disable SIP which would probably cajole BootChamp back to life. Bear in mind it will get re-enabled if PRAM(NVRAM) is reset. I assume any other boot loader like reFind will have the same issue.

Does your Mac Pro not support the BootCamp application for the version of windows you are running?

https://support.appl.../en-us/HT204048

The only other option is the option boot that is inevitably sketchy on our Mac Pros.

Rich has a good write up of how SIP fits into Apple's security model.

https://derflounder....security-model/

The Old Mac Milt in me doesn't like SIP walling off some things, the Office in me says hot damn people and malicious actors can't frak up hospital machines no matter how hard they try.

TBH I bought this 144hz ASUS monitor and hooked up my PC and 360 and Mac Pro but I haven't really booted the wandows PC in months. It's either been OS X or xBone. Easier to play something on the lapterp in the kitchen then hole up in the office. I should prioritize any wandows only games I have on the list to play and then put it back in the basement to save space up here.

So I need to disable SiP and it appears that all I have to do is press Command-R on startup which takes you to recovery mode.  Select Terminal from the Utilities Window in recovery mode. Type “csrutil disable” into the Terminal.  Reboot back into OS X. Try Bootcamp.  Yes, no?  

If I do I just go back to the security layers of Mavericks right?  I felt safe enough there behind my hardware firewall, besides, I'm a little fish and not worth the effort.  Tell me if I'm off track here.  This is until I get my gaming PC, then I'll restore SiP and use OS X as an internet appliance.


View Postmacdude22, on 02 June 2016 - 07:07 PM, said:

You might be able to reinstall 10.9 and restore your user data from a time machine backup but I've never tried going backwards like that. Only forwards, twirling toward freedom. errrr. in this case not freedom.

I don't use Time Machine, I clone my main to my nightly backup disk every night.  Once a week I clone the nightly backup to the Weekly Backup disk and once a month I clone the Weekly Backup disk to the Monthly Backup disk.  All that for years and I've never needed to restore anything from them.  Now I have an issue and it is past the monthly backup so I'm screwed in that respect.

View PostDirtyHarry50, on 02 June 2016 - 07:04 PM, said:

I have a nice gaming laptop you might be interested in when I get it fixed up (see topic I mentioned) and once I am all set with it I could give you a sweet deal on it.

Thanks but I'm not getting a new Mac.  And trust me I appreciate your "sweet deal", you're a stand up guy.  I've got a great new retina Mac Pro laptop.  That's my wife's.  If I get another computer it will be a gaming PC.
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#40 Frost

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 10:29 PM

View Postthe Battle Cat, on 02 June 2016 - 09:36 PM, said:

If I do I just go back to the security layers of Mavericks right?  I felt safe enough there behind my hardware firewall, besides, I'm a little fish and not worth the effort.  Tell me if I'm off track here.  This is until I get my gaming PC, then I'll restore SiP and use OS X as an internet appliance.

I'm not a big fish either, but I'm a big enough fish to get one attack per three days from China. Nobody's even gotten past my ASUS router's firewall, nevermind the Synology, Macs, and the PC behind it. I've got everything hardwired though so I can yank the plug the day those frakkin' toasters rise up and compromise the first line of defense.

A properly configured firewall is good to go unless you've got someone really hellbent on getting at you. I wouldn't and don't feel the least bit unsafe with Mavericks.

View Postthe Battle Cat, on 02 June 2016 - 09:36 PM, said:

I don't use Time Machine, I clone my main to my nightly backup disk every night.  Once a week I clone the nightly backup to the Weekly Backup disk and once a month I clone the Weekly Backup disk to the Monthly Backup disk.  All that for years and I've never needed to restore anything from them.  Now I have an issue and it is past the monthly backup so I'm screwed in that respect.

Do that manual rollback baby! It's honestly not as bad as it sounds, just an hour or so usually.

And I would recommend thinking about Time Machine. A clone is a better solution if you need to restore the whole thing, but in a scenario where you're like, "Oh popsnizzle, I threw away something two months ago and I need it back!" it is an absolute lifesaver. I did that at the six month mark and recovered my stuff thanks to Time Machine, and was very glad I started using it finally in 2013.
Cypher (PowerMac G5 Quad) – 2x2.5 GHz PPC 970MP / 16GB ECC RAM / 1TB WDC Velociraptor, 2TB STX Constellation ES.2 / QuadroFX 4500 512MB
Kestrel (Falcon NW Tiki) – 4.0 GHz i7 4790K / 16GB RAM / 512GB Samsung 950 Pro M.2, 2x480GB Intel 730 (RAID0), 10TB STX BarraCuda Pro / GeForce GTX TITAN X 12GB
Iridium (MacBook Pro Mid-2012) – 2.7 GHz i7 3820QM / 16GB RAM / 2TB Samsung 850 Pro / GeForce GT 650M 1GB
Antimony (PowerBook G4 Titanium) – 1.0 GHz PPC 7455 / 1GB RAM / 512GB Crucial M550 / Radeon 9000 64MB

Eric5h5:
When there's a multiplayer version, I'm going to be on Frost's team. Well, except he doesn't seem to actually need a team...I mean, what's the point? "Hey look, it's Frost and His Merry Gang of Useless Hangers-On!" Or something.