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[IMG News]

Today's release of Boot Camp has thrown one of the biggest monkey wrench the Mac games market has ever seen. How it will impact Mac game developers is the hot topic of the morning. We asked a few Mac developers what they thought about Apple released software that makes it so easy to install Windows on an Intel Mac.

Peter Tamte of MacSoft:

The market of Mac game players is going to explode if consumers can play the entire library of Windows games plus the entire library of Mac games on their Macs. Most of these users are going to want to spend as much of their time in MacOS, rather than Windows. Destineer/MacSoft's plans, first and foremost, are to release Mac versions of Destineer's internally developed games simultaneously with other platforms and also to continue releasing conversions of Windows games on an opportunistic basis where we believe we can serve users who prefer not to run Windows on their Macs.

Glenda Adams of Aspyr Media:

It's an interesting move on Apple's part. I hope that Mac users will continue to support Mac specific software in the future, and not turn their shiny new Intel Macs into dumbed down Windows machines just to play games. Of course Aspyr also publishes some PC only games like Dreamfall and Spellforce 2, so if the mac game market shrinks, something like Boot Camp may be the only way to play those on the Mac. We'd much rather have a healthy, growing Mac game market that made it viable for us to make Mac specific versions of those kinds of games though.

Ian Lynch Smith of Freeverse Software:

Great news for Mac Users! As usual, game makers are on the bleeding edge of the latest technology, emphasis this time on the bleeding :)

We always figured it would happen, but we thought if Heroes was out in 06, what with intel tech adoption, and obvious headaches in duel booting etc, we'd have a good year before the landscape totally changed. But Apple is pushing the intel roll out very aggressively, and now aggressively pushing dual boot (and virtualization eventually from someone). We live in interesting times.

Andrew Welch of Ambrosia Software:

I'd say the same thing that I said before re: this issue, which is that Apple is clearly doing this because they believe it will help sell more computers Whenever Apple sells more computers, it is good for us -- people will get sick of dual-booting, and would prefer to run native games, just like Linux users prefer native games

I don't view it as a threat at all... but then again, we're not in the porting business for the most part, that may affect my opinion. I know a lot of people who have been thinking of a new iMac, switching over from Windows
If you can tell them that they can boot into Windows too, if they want to.... instant sale, IMHO. People "need" Windows less than they think they do. I hope WINE gets ported soon, so people can run the vertical software they need to.

Brad Oliver of Aspyr Media:

From a business standpoint, I suspect Aspyr is, in the short term, going to continue releasing Mac ports as before and see where the market takes us. If Mac sales tank, we've got enough revenue coming in from PC and console ports that it probably won't hurt the company too much and we'd just focus on the other platforms. It's possible that the Mac market share could increase so dramatically that the demand for Mac games increases enough to offset the costs of the loss of sales to dual-booting, but I'm not so optimistic about that. From a personal standpoint, it probably means the end of my current job, but I'm going to ride it out to the end and see where that takes me. I love doing Mac game ports, so in a way I wish I were strictly a Mac user now and didn't have a job that is in total collision with this new development.

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[nagromme]

Surprising news--and great for the Mac platform in general.

Good comments too. Peter Tamte and Andrew Welch echo my feelings in particular. But the "wait and see" camp makes good sense also. I can understand the uncertainty.

Re general fears being discussed today that development of Mac-native apps will diminish: no way. It will INCREASE because of Boot Camp.

Demand for native Mac apps will increase faster than ever now, and demand drives sales. Developers won't turn away now!

The only way demand for native Mac apps would decrease is if the number of Mac users willing to "settle for Windows" increases FASTER than the overall growth of the Mac OS X user base.

Settling for Windows means rebooting, giving up iLife and all your Mac apps, abandoning the security and ease of use of OS X, and--don't forget--PAYING for a copy of Windows. That's too much to settle for unless you have to. And then you'll do it only WHEN you have to. Not by choice. You will still demand OS X and OS X apps.

So I see the number of Mac users willing to settle for Windows being VERY small, increased only slightly by people now choosing Boot Camp Macs for their next "PC." (A great many of them will end up using Mac OS X even if that wasn't their intent at first.)

Meanwhile I see the overall Mac user base growing a LOT--and growing even more because Boot Camp gives switchers a reassuring safety net.

Result: more Mac OS X users, more Mac OS X apps. Not less.


But re games specifically: gamers are the most likely to "settle" for Windows because you're not using the OS at that time, and you're not trying to collaborate among multiple apps. Windows is "good enough" at that point, if you accept the inconvenience of having to reboot just to game. Except for three factors:

1. When you go online to game in Windows (or download content, or chat/email to set up a match, or browse for hints/cheats), you are subject to Windows malware.

2. To game in Windows, you must buy--and take the time to install--a copy of Windows. Mac games don't need that. Mac games will run right off the shelf.

3. If you find Windows gaming acceptable (which I can totally understand), then you ALREADY were gaming in Windows. You owned a PC on the side. Mac owners buying Windows games is NOT anything new with boot camp--it was a factor Mac game companies were already contending with. At least not Mac game companies will have an ever-increasing base to sell to.

I trust the game companies to know more about all this than I, but I tend to be optimistic: I think the overall growth of the Mac platform will ultimately help Mac game developers more than the harm done by Intel and Boot Camp. The good will outweigh the bad, and we'll all have more games.

I know I for one will gladly wait a few months more for a native Mac port of a game!

[hambone]

i really appreciate the cautious optimism of these developers that BootCamp stands to increase Mac marketshare. I also liked that they noted that if the port business dies off, it just means more effort will be put into creating original mac games. sounds good to me, especially with the innovative gameplay mechanics increasingly being found in shareware experiments these days.

that said, i suspect that many Mac gamers will also be willing to wait a few months for native mac ports, but the pressure is definitely on for the ports to come out sooner, if not near-simultaneous to the PC release. personally, i am a fairly serious gaming hobbyist, and have no problems dual-booting my mac to try the latest shareware and retail releases on XP. when i play a game i'm not doing anything else, so waiting a minute for a reboot isn't too painful at all (especially now that it has been confirmed that XP can be installed on an external HD, safe and far from my OSX install). and as for pick-up-and-play gaming while working or taking a break, i rely on my GameboyDS more than my Mac.

i am really looking forward to a serious IMG poll in about six months asking who has installed XP and is dual-booting to play games. my guess is that for the next year or so, the number will actually be a fairly limited ratio of the over-all mac gaming market.

[nagromme]

Sooner (and sometimes better) Mac ports would be great--and hopefully once the Intel transition is well underway and ports are made ONLY from Intel, to Intel, that will help.

One thing I'd love to see: if a game's editor doesn't make it to Mac, at least include the Windows version on the disc, or make it downloadable.

Note that Windows on an external HD doesn't protect your Mac: your internal HD is still connected, and visible to Windows as a device. Thus it can be reformatted by a virus.

True Windows malware protection for the Mac side would be to put the MAC OS on the external, so you could physically disconnect it when running Windows.

I agree that the ratio of dual-boot gamers will be small. But bigger here, because this site represents a more dedicated subset of all Mac gamers.

[Smoke_Tetsu]

nagromme, on April 5th 2006, 02:16 PM, said:

Sooner (and sometimes better) Mac ports would be great--and hopefully once the Intel transition is well underway and ports are made ONLY from Intel, to Intel, that will help.

One thing I'd love to see: if a game's editor doesn't make it to Mac, at least include the Windows version on the disc, or make it downloadable.

Note that Windows on an external HD doesn't protect your Mac: your internal HD is still connected, and visible to Windows as a device. Thus it can be reformatted by a virus.

True Windows malware protection for the Mac side would be to put the MAC OS on the external, so you could physically disconnect it when running Windows.

I agree that the ratio of dual-boot gamers will be small. But bigger here, because this site represents a more dedicated subset of all Mac gamers.

This is an alarmist position that I doubt. How many times do you hear of someones Windows partition or drive wiping out their linux drive? Windows doesn't even see drives or partitions that aren't FAT, FAT32 or NTFS partitioned besides the reformat virus is a hoax.

[nagromme]

I'm not saying a Windows virus WILL reformat your internal drive, I'm merely saying it could. (Whereas with virtualization, that can't happen.)

Windows doesn't have to understand the partitioning or filesystem of a drive in order to wipe it and start over. It just has to see that a storage device is physically connected.

I'm not aware of the hoax you're referring to, but viruses crafted purely for vandalism and destruction haven't gone away. Kama Sutra is a recent example. Has a virus ever reformatted a hard disk? I don't know--thankfully I have no need to keep up on the world of viruses. I'm only saying it could.

Booting Windows does open doors that booting Mac OS does not. Whether that's enough of a factor to effect one's buying choices is a personal call. I for one am willing to pay for the extra peace of mind (and convenience) of virtualization--or else boot to Windows while staying strictly offline. For me, a locked door is good, but no door is better!

[Mister Mumbles]

nagromme, on April 5th 2006, 01:35 PM, said:

...boot to Windows while staying strictly offline. For me, a locked door is good, but no door is better!

That's exactly what I'm planning on doing, since single player has always been more important to me than online play. I would simply download any patches/demos/extras in OS X, make sure they don't harbor any viruses, and then simply transfer them to Windows - via some means of external storage device (if necessary).

[Smoke_Tetsu]

nagromme, on April 5th 2006, 02:35 PM, said:

I'm not saying a Windows virus WILL reformat your internal drive, I'm merely saying it could. (Whereas with virtualization, that can't happen.)

Windows doesn't have to understand the partitioning or filesystem of a drive in order to wipe it and start over. It just has to see that a storage device is physically connected.

I'm not aware of the hoax you're referring to, but viruses crafted purely for vandalism and destruction haven't gone away. Kama Sutra is a recent example. Has a virus ever reformatted a hard disk? I don't know--thankfully I have no need to keep up on the world of viruses. I'm only saying it could.

Booting Windows does open doors that booting Mac OS does not. Whether that's enough of a factor to effect one's buying choices is a personal call. I for one am willing to pay for the extra peace of mind (and convenience) of virtualization--or else boot to Windows while staying strictly offline. For me, a locked door is good, but no door is better!

Sure there are plenty of viruses that are crafted for destruction but I have yet to see one that does this kind of thing and I have been using PC's for at least 15 years. Still I haven't heard for example of windows nuking someones Linux partitions which would be a similar deal so I think it's alarmist to say that it will do it to OS X. Not that it probably isn't entirely impossible as anything is possible if you put your mind to it but likely? I'm not so sure about that. I will have to see at least one credible example. Also it'll have to be proven to me if virtualization will be a complete solution including video drivers and full performance.

Also you don't have to be offline to avoid viruses on windows you just have to use a little what should be common sense. I use PC's in addition to macs and I have never gotten infected not once much less by any virus that hypothetically might format a drive.

Believe me I speak from experience. The reason why I got a mac wasn't to "get away from viruses" but rather I like OS X and prefer it as an OS but most computer jobs and games are for Windows so I still support and use it.

[NAG]

I just wanted to say thanks to all the developers at porting houses. I hope this all works out, who knows how it will.

[akac]

My wife has a MacBook Pro. She can dual boot now. Because of my work, we've got a PC in the house and MSDN so I can put Windows on there no cost if she wants it. She loves Sims and other games - and she's waiting patiently for Sims 2 Universal. I can say that her comment on Boot Camp was "why would anyone choose to put Windows on their Mac?" So for MOST gamers I think that's the attitude they'll have. She waits patiently for the Sims 2 Universal patch and wants to have no part of Windows.

[Tesseract]

hambone, on April 6th 2006, 05:41 AM, said:

the pressure is definitely on for the ports to come out sooner, if not near-simultaneous to the PC release.

Quite a few games seem to be able to pull off a near-simultaneous release of the Linux and Windows versions. The need for PowerPC support is still a barrier to this on the Mac, but eventually I hope we get the same situation.

[AussieMacGamer]

I WOULD NEVER HAVE SEEN THIS COMING! WOW   

[easy4lif]

seriously,  I could see myself buying an iMac 2 years from now and getting Windows Vista (if it ever comes out) installed on it.  and playing games exclusicely on my iMac Vista.  oh yea, getting a Mac Virus scanner to look for windows viruses on the windows partition

[Quicksilver]

Uh, two years?  That's a seriously long time--there may not even be an iMac then, and we'll be talking about Vista's replacement too (hopefully).

By the way, you're never going to find a Mac virus scanner that looks for Windows viruses on a Windows partition--it's unnecessary.

[nagromme]

Well, Mac virus scanners do look for Windows viruses (it's about all they CAN look for), and Macs can read Windows hard disks.

You really want protection WHILE running Windows, of course, not after the fact when you boot back to Mac. You do need Windows anti-virus and anti-spyware apps.

[bilbo--baggins]

My message to mac games developers is this:

Release mac versions simultaneously to PC versions, and for the same price, or forget it.

Three cheers to Blizzard - they did this last year with World of Warcraft.   Companies that produce ports a few years late, and at several times the price (compared the PC versions of these old games that by this time are fulling the bargain bins) don't deserve to stay in business.

I will continue only to buy Mac games, and hopefully it will tell games developers 'if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen'.

[Mister Mumbles]

Such things as anti-spyware and anti-adware are useless, though, unless you plan on accessing the internet via Windows, which I am certainly not intending to do.

[Smoke_Tetsu]

Pegasus, on April 6th 2006, 04:33 PM, said:

Such things as anti-spyware and anti-adware are useless, though, unless you plan on accessing the internet via Windows, which I am certainly not intending to do.

They are also more useless if you use an alternative browser other than IE.

[Quicksilver]

nagromme, on April 6th 2006, 04:58 PM, said:

Well, Mac virus scanners do look for Windows viruses (it's about all they CAN look for), and Macs can read Windows hard disks.

You really want protection WHILE running Windows, of course, not after the fact when you boot back to Mac. You do need Windows anti-virus and anti-spyware apps.

If you format your drive as NTFS, the Mac can't write to the PC (just in case you didn't realize).  You don't need virus protection on the PC if you take precautions to avoid getting viruses in the first place.  I've been running two Dell desktops constantly connected to the internet for over a year without getting a single virus.

bilbo--baggins, on April 6th 2006, 05:31 PM, said:

My message to mac games developers is this:

Release mac versions simultaneously to PC versions, and for the same price, or forget it.

Right, I agree--but that's pretty much impossible (how many simultaneous releases have we had in the last five years?).  That's why I think that Aspyr and Macsoft are pretty much going to get out of the PC -> Mac porting market and concentrate on porting titles between consoles.

[tthiel]

Will you wait 8 months to a year because thats how long it takes not a few months.  Will you accept poorer performance and fewer features from the PC version?  How about higher prices?  How about all of the many great PC games that will never be on the Mac?

nagromme, on April 5th 2006, 11:39 AM, said:

I know I for one will gladly wait a few months more for a native Mac port of a game!