817 replies to this topic

[Tetsuya]

I just dont think you have to compromise.  

You can come in well below budget and still have a stellar 1080p experience.  If you're focusing on 1080p, you really dont need more than an RX 470/480 (the 470 is actually only about 10% slower than the 480) or GTX 1060.  

Also, dont count out using your PC from your couch.  

BigPicture mode in Steam is quite nice, and Steam now natively supports both Xbone and PS4 controllers (i use a PS4 controller for my PC and dont even own a PS4).

[Camper-Hunter]

Tetsuya, on 30 January 2017 - 08:34 AM, said:

If you decide to add an SSD later, that Intel 600p you had seems.. really pricy.  A good Crucial MX 525GB is about 50$ cheaper.

It's pricey because it's NVMe. But given the budget constraint, a plain old SATA SSD (either 2.5" or M.2 format) will still perform well, you're right. And if 256 GB is enough, Harry can save even more (Windows and most commonly used apps and games should fit on this amount of storage). You can still add a good hard drive for bulk storage later if needed (prefer 7200 rpm ones).

[DirtyHarry50]

Tetsuya, on 31 January 2017 - 09:49 PM, said:

I just dont think you have to compromise.  

You can come in well below budget and still have a stellar 1080p experience.  If you're focusing on 1080p, you really dont need more than an RX 470/480 (the 470 is actually only about 10% slower than the 480) or GTX 1060.  

Also, dont count out using your PC from your couch.  

BigPicture mode in Steam is quite nice, and Steam now natively supports both Xbone and PS4 controllers (i use a PS4 controller for my PC and dont even own a PS4).

Yeah, I think your "I'd like the best i can get Right Now" build is good with the exception that I would go with the established retailer OEM Windows 10 Home which boosts the total up to $1,025. but I prefer doing that. Thanks to macdude22 helping me out with a drive to try out I can see first hand what using a hybrid would be like for a while and then either get something like the 2 TB hybrid that Sneaky suggested with the idea of that becoming a data drive later when I get an SSD for the boot drive or if I really don't like it much after trying one out I could do something like the Crucial 275 GB SSD for a little less and just replace it with a better/larger SSD later and then get the data drive after that. Either way is a good upgrade path I can do in a reasonable amount of time to wind up with a nice PC that'll last me some time before I really need anything else for it.

I did think about just getting the Crucial 275 GB drive now and going with the originally suggested Nvidia 1050 ti since I could get by with it but it does seem better to get a GPU that'll last me longer and just wait a little bit on fixing up the drives situation.

That Intel SSD looks good to me for later. My only concern with it was a negative review highlighted as the most helpful negative on NewEgg I think it was that went into some stuff about that user having issues with large (50 gig) steam game installs failing and he blamed the type of SSD for being the problem in terms I did not understand. So I don't know if he was out to lunch or if there is some issue there. It didn't make much sense to me that it ought to be a problem and I wondered if the problem was him or his configuration otherwise but I don't know enough about the various flavors of SSDs to have any opinion there.

By the way, I was little slower than I meant to be owing to some family stuff going on (good stuff) but I did get the iMac up for sale now so hopefully it won't take too long to get that taken care of and I can move ahead with this.

[DirtyHarry50]

I almost forgot (it's very late here or early actually) but yeah, Steam Big Picture is cool. I bought the Steam Link and the Steam Controller over the holidays at 50 bucks for both on sale. I've tried it so far with Oblivion which surprisingly to me anyway, didn't have controller support on its own. The Steam Controller is nice for stuff like that but for anything with controller support I'll go with either my XBox One or PS4 controller. XBox One is probably better for me as the button prompts would match up I think vs using a PS4 even though I like that one a little better? It's not a big deal to me either way but I have both options because I'd gotten the Xbox controller to use with the iMac prior to buying the PS4.

Oblivion ran just perfectly and then I got sidetracked with other stuff but I'll be going to back that sometime soon. I've been meaning to play that game for ages. I did try Fallout 3 also once I got it fixed up for Windows 10 but unfortunately that won't work with Steam Big Picture for some reason and it's a known issue with it. Considering how finicky that game is just on Windows itself I'm not surprised really. I hope Fallout NV will work though. That would be nice. I'll find out about that later. I have more than enough going on for now.

[Jan]

DirtyHarry50, on 01 February 2017 - 03:08 AM, said:

I almost forgot (it's very late here or early actually) but yeah, Steam Big Picture is cool. I bought the Steam Link and the Steam Controller over the holidays at 50 bucks for both on sale. I've tried it so far with Oblivion which surprisingly to me anyway, didn't have controller support on its own. The Steam Controller is nice for stuff like that but for anything with controller support I'll go with either my XBox One or PS4 controller. XBox One is probably better for me as the button prompts would match up I think vs using a PS4 even though I like that one a little better? It's not a big deal to me either way but I have both options because I'd gotten the Xbox controller to use with the iMac prior to buying the PS4.

Oblivion ran just perfectly and then I got sidetracked with other stuff but I'll be going to back that sometime soon. I've been meaning to play that game for ages. I did try Fallout 3 also once I got it fixed up for Windows 10 but unfortunately that won't work with Steam Big Picture for some reason and it's a known issue with it. Considering how finicky that game is just on Windows itself I'm not surprised really. I hope Fallout NV will work though. That would be nice. I'll find out about that later. I have more than enough going on for now.

The Steam Controller is great as a couch mouse replacement as well. It works beautifully even without Steam on macOS.

Regarding Bethesda's older games: I just hope they get all re-released on GOG. Then I put Fallout 3 and New Vegas in a nice CrossOver wrapper.

[DirtyHarry50]

Wow! I just listed my iMac on Craigslist in the middle of night here in North Carolina and I already got two responses. I called the first person who'd replied as they gave their phone number to me and they want it. They are on the NC coast about 2.5 hours from here but coming this way to visit family as fate would have it on Saturday so they want to swing by and pick it up then. He seems like a nice enough guy. He tried to get me to go a little lower but I let him know I'd run a bidvoy check before listing and found this iMac trending at $1,042. average sold price on ebay over the past six months so I was sticking to $995. and he was okay with that. I can't blame him for trying despite the fact i clearly stated the price was not negotiable in the ad. I knew that would be ignored just the same. Ha ha!

The guy was worried I'd sell it to somebody else on him and offered to send me a deposit via PayPal but I couldn't recall if it's even connected to my present bank. I think it is though so I might take him up on that tomorrow and advised him as such and he was also fine with that. Based on this stuff though I probably won't bother. This guy wants this Mac to replace an older one and he wants it pretty bad so I think I am golden here. Now I just have to prep it for sale on Friday and maybe I'll be ordering stuff on my iPad early next week with any kind of luck. Yay!!!

I do need to remind this guy tomorrow though that it has to be in cash as specified. That ain't negotiable either.

[Camper-Hunter]

DirtyHarry50, on 01 February 2017 - 02:55 AM, said:

Yeah, I think your "I'd like the best i can get Right Now" build is good with the exception that I would go with the established retailer OEM Windows 10 Home which boosts the total up to $1,025. but I prefer doing that.

The build has this monitor: BenQ GL2460HM 24.0" 1920x1080 60Hz Monitor  ($129.00 @ B&H)
It has a TN panel. I still suggest choosing a monitor with PVA/MVA or IPS panel (Apple only used once or twice a TN panel in a 21" iMac, and it was by far the worse screen they had in the 21st century). I also suggest making sure the chosen monitor has a matte finish instead of glossy, unless you really like glossy (which may be the case since you have an iMac!). Your eyes will thank you if you care about image quality and accurate colours (otherwise just ignore this paragraph!).

As for the Windows license, well, here's a a seller with Win 10 Pro for less than $4 . I bought a $9 Office 2016 Pro key from them yesterday, it worked. So $4 vs $90, the difference is huge and will compensate the additional cost of a better quality display, like the Dell U2417H.

[DirtyHarry50]

Well, clicking on the Windows Pro link puts up this message:

"This listing (122330219946) has been removed, or this item isn't available."

Normally, completed listings for done auctions as you know remain available for viewing. I can guess what happened there. lol

Anyway, I'm good with just getting it from an established retailer and knowing I won't have to worry about it at all. I appreciate the pointers about this but that's my preference where this is concerned.

As for the display, I'd read up on the different panel types and I understand why you are giving me the advice that you are. As such I don't disagree with it either but from a purely economic standpoint, the cheap one will do for the time being and can go in the closet as a backup once I buy a decent one later. I still like the idea of going with one of the Asus gaming displays later but as previously discussed there isn't any point in that until I have a GPU that would frequently exceed 60 FPS.

I'm pretty happy with what everyone as a group helped me come up with here, compromises and all, as the starting point the system can grow from over time. Everything is relative as the saying goes. I started gaming on a tiny monochrome display driven by a Hercules card in PC-XT clone. I thought my Paradise EGA card in my AST/Premium 286 with a Rampage board in it was incredible with its no name monitor. Being able to play Sierra games in 16 colors and later an absolutely stunning 256 with my first VGA card was so amazing. You may recall a similar path to where we are now.

None of that makes a cheap monitor today any better but for me it does make it not seem so terrible, especially knowing I can get a nicer one later on.

[Cougar]

DirtyHarry50, on 03 February 2017 - 08:45 AM, said:

As for the display, I'd read up on the different panel types and I understand why you are giving me the advice that you are. As such I don't disagree with it either but from a purely economic standpoint, the cheap one will do for the time being and can go in the closet as a backup once I buy a decent one later. I still like the idea of going with one of the Asus gaming displays later but as previously discussed there isn't any point in that until I have a GPU that would frequently exceed 60 FPS.

Thing is, IPS panels are just as cheap these days. I bought an open box 24" IPS for $100 on Newegg last month as a secondary monitor. Here is a new one on Amazon for $109.

[Camper-Hunter]

Camper-Hunter, on 16 January 2017 - 02:48 AM, said:

Now to wait for a few days (ordered from four different online shops) then start assembling!

It lives! Some pics to prove it.

The whole setup
Inside
Another inside
Cable management. With three hard drives, two SSDs and an optical drive, that's a lot of cables to manage.

[macdude22]

looks good but I still think you should have gone with the train.

[ozzy]

Tetsuya, on 30 January 2017 - 08:34 AM, said:

Theyre legal.  Paul's Hardware just did an entire video on it.  If you order from Kinguin, as well, they have like a 2$ guarantee, so if it turns out to be a bum key, theyll give you another one for free.  Win 10 usually goes for about 20$ on Kinguin.  I haven't paid full price for a Windows license in forever.  

Has anyone done this and had success?  I just bought a Windows 10 Home OEM key on here and tried to activate my Windows 10 Home installation and it says there is an error.

[mindnoise]

ozzy, on 23 April 2017 - 08:52 AM, said:

Has anyone done this and had success?  I just bought a Windows 10 Home OEM key on here and tried to activate my Windows 10 Home installation and it says there is an error.

Kinguin is def. NOT legit. Same as G2A - grey market key reseller scams.

[mindnoise]

BTW: Finally after 12 years or so, since I started gaming on PC, I caved in and got a 'gaming PC' from old parts parts and ebay.

- i5 2500  - not overclocking anyway and sufficient for AC Unity, which I think is the most demanding game out there, at least that I play.
- Asus Geforce GTX 950 2GB - better than 750Ti but not so power hungry like a 960 or 970 and way cheaper 2nd hand.
I pondered a new GTX 1050 but maybe in a year or two.
- Asus P8P67 M
- 8Gigs (2x4)
Anything above seemed like waste of money to me, for current games and my immense backlog.

What did not go so well:

Unfortunately I had to replace the PSU, an 20 year old ATX 1.3. Technically it works great, but boy, the noise level is Boing 747 turbine quality. Esp. since I am used to my nearly silent Mac mini. It was unbearable so I got a "be quiet" BQT-L7 350W PSU, near silent.
I had to replace the 2.5” HDD WD Blue 500GB. On Mac it's ok but on Windows 7 I get tons of SMART-Check warnings. So I had to get a 'new' Toshiba 320GB 5k4 RPM. €32 as startup HDD.
Boot time a bit over a minute.

Also, I got the GTX 950 Blower reference model, now I know why it was so cheap. The noise level is still OK, even at higher RPM.
But I am gettting a aftermarket cooler ARCTIC Accelero L2 PLUS, cost me add. €16. 120W of cooling power for a card that draws 90Watts.
Should be enough.

I have all my games and game-clients on an external 2TB drive so I am covered here. I might have to replace it, too at some point, since 2TB are getting rather small with all those games weighing in at 50GB and more these days.

still, all in all this cost me about €260.

And now I am pro at installing W7.

and this came in VERY helpful
http://download.wsusoffline.net/
get all static Windows Updates for offline installing

and this:
http://www.iobit.com...ver-booster.php
Esp. for build PCs. saves you a ton of time for not having to hunt the internet for drivers, manually.

and finally Blackbird
http://www.getblackbird.net/download/
removes all those nasty telemetry , logging and W10 compatibility updates and configs the firewall to block all this M$ spying 'services'.
great stuff.

this stuff is pure GOLD!

just finished setting verything up today.

some first internal FPS benchmarks from Far Cry Primal:
1600 x 900
medium: 67 to 75
high: 60 to 65

2560 x 1080
med: 37 - 43
high: 37 - 43

1980 x 1080
med: 26 - 43 - very wonky, don't know why

I am satisfied

[Annadiana]

A desktop gaming PC is the best option for me. I experience less lagging with it whenever I play.

[hpymacguy]

I see that this is an older thread, but for anyone thinking about buying a Gaming PC here's my recent experiences when searching for a replacement of my Late 2013 iMac. I went to all fo the top gaming PC brands like Alienware, Origin, Digital Storm, iBuyPower, etc. almost compulsively configuring rigs to try to find the sweet spot between performance to carry me forward for 5 years and price. I am frustrated by Apple's lack of support for an upgradable Mac model so decided to check out the PC offerings. When a Windows PC was configured to match the top of the line iMac specs the price always hit between $5,000 to $6,000+ dollars. Even though I am deeply resentful of Apple denying me the choice of the graphics card that I want, buying a top-of-the-line iMac and installing Windows on it through Bootcamp is about $1,500 to $2,000 less than the gaming PC AND a really nice display is already included with the iMac. If I were to upgrade today, I would go with an well configured iMac as my new gaming PC. I'm trying to hold out on updates, though, until I see what Apple releases as their modular, upgradable new Mac in 2019. If I had to buy an upgradable system now, I really liked the offerings from Origin PC (made in the USA) and iBuyPower. Also, I noticed that the 34" display Origin sells with the PC was several hundred dollars less on Amazon.

[DirtyHarry50]

I ultimately concluded that for me, consoles are the way to go. I’m an Apple person and like Apple stuff, consoles are plug and play - they just work. I love it. For less than a grand you can own an Xbox One X and a PS4 Pro or a Nintendo Switch. Of course, you could be kept plenty busy with any one of these depending on personal preferences, kids in your home you want to play with, etc.

Consoles are the turnkey solution for gaming and you can start off for less than $250. on a sale with the base model Xbox One S or PS4 Slim if you are using a 1080p television still. Sometime after this discussion ended this is what I did. I got both for under 500. and I have been having a good time ever since.

Apple does not do desktop gaming systems. Enthusiast gaming rigs aren’t their thing. A consumer friendly ecosystem of various computing and other electronic devices is. This is their focus and has been for a long time.

I think folks would do well to just embrace what is great about Apple products and if what gaming one can do on them is not enough, buy whatever will do it to satisfy that need.

Focus is a good thing. No one company can be all things to all people.

[Camper-Hunter]

hpymacguy, on 25 April 2018 - 03:11 PM, said:

When a Windows PC was configured to match the top of the line iMac specs the price always hit between $5,000 to $6,000+ dollars.

Please show an example as I find that hard to believe. The only way to reach this pricing level is with workstation/server class components, which the iMac definitely hasn't (notice I'm not referring to the iMac Pro here, which isn't meant at all for playing games, though it can of course). A quick simulation showed me a $4000 price for the equivalent of a fully loaded top iMac, and a large part of that is because of the 5K display: if 4K is enough, you'll save $1000. Also, 64GB of RAM and a 2 TB SSD isn't very helpful for gaming, so lots of savings can be made there.