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MacPro Updated Prediction 2019

peter paul chato prediction macpro trashintosh 2018 2019 upgradable gpu

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#1 UmarOMC1

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 11:20 PM

Long time tech head, Peter Paul Chato, gives his 2¢ in his predictions for Apple's next non-Trashintosh MacPro.


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#2 Matt Diamond

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Posted 01 March 2018 - 09:05 AM

I kept expecting him to say "Inconceivable!"

He has some excellent points, but his argument that "Jobs came back... and released the trashintosh" was overstated. Jobs returned in 1997. ALL models named Mac Pro post-date that, including many towers. It was a weak point that undercut Chato's credibility. (I understand he was saying that Apple started down that path only after Jobs was gone, but  a) Jobs was not shy about killing off products when he came back, and b) Jobs was fired when the Mac was only 2 years old. I think it's likely he would have been pushed to release an expandable model eventually.)

Other than that bit of hyperbole, I think that he is mostly right. Apple probably *wants* to release a tower that is around the same price or more that the iMac Pro so they don't cannibilize iMac Pro sales. But how can they justify that premium? What feature(s) would give it value when compared to high-end PC workstations on the same Intel platform? (Other than the fact that it's running Mac OS.)

Apple has options but the more I think about it, the less I think it'll be a gamer-friendly machine, and/or out of my price range.

I just want a tower that lets me upgrade the GPU and the disks periodically. I might even be happy with an option that relies on eGPU for video upgrades, if that option continues to mature. But its looking like my next purchase is an iMac. I'll put it off as long as I can, just in case Apple surprises me.

Thanks for the video!
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#3 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 01 March 2018 - 09:56 AM

Dual CPU would be the main way to keep it priced at a premium and clearly superior to the iMac Pro.

8 core iMac Pro starts at $5K. Mac Pro could start with dual 8 core (16 total) at $5K. CPU's don't cost that much (compared to RAM, enterprise storage, workstation graphics, etc.) and the extra 8 core CPU wouldn't really cost them any more then the $5K display which they are including with the iMac Pro.

My prediction for the starting price/specs will be:
  • Dual 8 core (16c/32t total)
  • 32 GB ECC RAM
  • Vega 56
  • 256 GB NVMe SSD
  • 10Gb NIC
  • $5000 USD
  • tower design with upgradable PCIe, RAM, drives, etc.
In regards to upgrades, I imagine there will be option for up to dual 20ish core (40 core total). I haven't looked at Intel's new Xeon-W lineup, but would guess that there is at least a 20ish core option. I would also expect up to 1 TB RAM (16x 64 GB), top end Radeon Pro graphics (beyond Vega 64 - the workstation options with tons of VRAM).
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#4 Cougar

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Posted 01 March 2018 - 03:46 PM

View PostMatt Diamond, on 01 March 2018 - 09:05 AM, said:

I ble model eventually.)

Other than that bit of hyperbole, I think that he is mostly right. Apple probably *wants* to release a tower that is around the same price or more that the iMac Pro so they don't cannibilize iMac Pro sales. But how can they justify that premium? What feature(s) would give it value when compared to high-end PC workstations on the same Intel platform? (Other than the fact that it's running Mac OS.)

Apple has options but the more I think about it, the less I think it'll be a gamer-friendly machine, and/or out of my price range.

I just want a tower that lets me upgrade the GPU and the disks periodically. I might even be happy with an option that relies on eGPU for video upgrades, if that option continues to mature. But its looking like my next purchase is an iMac. I'll put it off as long as I can, just in case Apple surprises me.

Apple has never cared about cannibalization. There were a lot of alarmist pundits throwing their hands in the air when the iPad / iPad Pro came out but Apple said it wasn’t concerned. Besides, the Mac Pro will be designed to capture the part of the market that the iMac Pro, because of its form factor, cannot serve. Saying a Mac Pro might cannibalize the iMac Pro is like saying the MBP might cannibalize the iMac.

What you’re describing wanting is the long-fabled xMac. I’ve long since given up on that dream. This will still be an expensive workstation, and I expect that the introductory model will be expensive, cost less (no 5K screen) but will be configurable to an even more ridiculous price.

#5 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 02 March 2018 - 07:53 AM

Posted Image

(I still want one, and I am even in the market for an upgrade soon!)
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#6 Matt Diamond

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Posted 02 March 2018 - 01:12 PM

Quote

Apple has never cared about cannibalization. There were a lot of alarmist pundits throwing their hands in the air when the iPad / iPad Pro came out but Apple said it wasn’t concerned.

Maybe we are talking about different flavors of cannibalization. As long as two product lines have healthy margins, then there's no need for Apple to favor one over another. (Or maybe Apple is figuring that if a user wants to go from laptop to tablet, if Apple doesn't offer a good enough tablet then they lose a user.) Either way I agree that Apple doesn't seem to care.

But all things being equal, Apple will want to avoid introducing a product that that pulls users from a more profitable product. A cheap-enough tower could easily undercut the iMac Pro in that way. So it seems to me that the iMac Pro is now effectively their low end pro product. I could be wrong.

The price of expandability keeps going up. I remember complaining when the low-end Mac Pro was $3000. Who'd have thought I'd be nostalgic for those days?
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#7 Cougar

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Posted 02 March 2018 - 03:40 PM

View PostMatt Diamond, on 02 March 2018 - 01:12 PM, said:

Maybe we are talking about different flavors of cannibalization. As long as two product lines have healthy margins, then there's no need for Apple to favor one over another. (Or maybe Apple is figuring that if a user wants to go from laptop to tablet, if Apple doesn't offer a good enough tablet then they lose a user.) Either way I agree that Apple doesn't seem to care.


No, we're talking about the same thing. I was just saying Apple doesn't care if you buy an iPad Pro over a more expensive MacBook Pro, and I think it'll be the same with the Pro lineup.

View PostMatt Diamond, on 02 March 2018 - 01:12 PM, said:

So it seems to me that the iMac Pro is now effectively their low end pro product. I could be wrong.


The iMac Pro *was* going to be their Pro solution, but they changed their minds and they had that strange Mac Pro meetup with Apple journalists. I think they understand that the iMac Pro can't serve all needs, which is why cannibalization won't matter with the Mac Pro. Better to have a bit of cannibalization than having more people leave the platform.

#8 ipickert55

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Posted 03 March 2018 - 01:42 AM

They could also include SLI in addition to dual processors to keep it even more higher up than the iMac Pro?
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#9 UmarOMC1

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Posted 03 March 2018 - 05:50 PM

View Postipickert55, on 03 March 2018 - 01:42 AM, said:

They could also include SLI in addition to dual processors to keep it even more higher up than the iMac Pro?
That would be awesome, and good for Apple's bottom line because I'm sure they'd charge an arm and a leg for that!
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#10 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 04 March 2018 - 02:35 PM

SLI/Crossfire is kind of dead.

Really doubt they will go down that route. The last Mac Pro had dual GPU in every configuration and it seemed to be a bad decision. I think Apple betted on multi GPU being the future, but it just didn't turn out that way.
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#11 Tetsuya

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Posted 04 March 2018 - 03:57 PM

View PostSneaky Snake, on 04 March 2018 - 02:35 PM, said:

SLI/Crossfire is kind of dead.

Really doubt they will go down that route. The last Mac Pro had dual GPU in every configuration and it seemed to be a bad decision. I think Apple betted on multi GPU being the future, but it just didn't turn out that way.

For gaming, yes.  For production workloads that leverage CUDA and its AMD equivalent, not remotely.  Particularly anything scientific research related, deep/machine learning, etc, multi-GPU is alive and well and is definitely the future.  Remembet that not everyone who buys a “Pro” machine is a graphics professional (where Adobe still has trouble getting Premiere to use more than six cores at all, and the other CS apps are even less MP-aware...).

#12 jeannot

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Posted 04 March 2018 - 04:28 PM

Multi GPU ≠ crossfire.

#13 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 04 March 2018 - 04:51 PM

View PostTetsuya, on 04 March 2018 - 03:57 PM, said:

For gaming, yes.  For production workloads that leverage CUDA and its AMD equivalent, not remotely.  Particularly anything scientific research related, deep/machine learning, etc, multi-GPU is alive and well and is definitely the future.  Remembet that not everyone who buys a “Pro” machine is a graphics professional (where Adobe still has trouble getting Premiere to use more than six cores at all, and the other CS apps are even less MP-aware...).

I was responding to people talking about SLI, which is just gaming.

I think Apple's decision to go multi-GPU ONLY really bit them in the ass. The vast majority of Mac Pro buyers are better served by a faster single GPU instead of 2x slower GPU's. Obviously multi-GPU has its place, but it's pretty niche. None of the clients that I deal with at work who need workstations with dual GPU (engineering firms mostly running various CAD applications). Many of the things you mentioned aren't really done on individual workstations anymore, but rather some sort of render farm (more economical to have 1 machine with 8+ GPU's that staff can share, instead of dual or triple GPU's for each user).
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#14 ipickert55

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 01:24 AM

Sorry I said SLI but i was referring to multi gpu in general, my brain just associates the two :P
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#15 Matt Diamond

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 09:03 PM

This discussion is very interesting. It's becoming increasingly clear that my next computer is an iMac 5K, or possibly a Hackintosh. I'll wait for the next iMac refresh and then decide. There's really no need for me to wait for the Mac Pro reveal any more, so I won't. (Whew!)
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#16 macdude22

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 09:51 PM

View PostMatt Diamond, on 07 March 2018 - 09:03 PM, said:

This discussion is very interesting. It's becoming increasingly clear that my next computer is an iMac 5K, or possibly a Hackintosh. I'll wait for the next iMac refresh and then decide. There's really no need for me to wait for the Mac Pro reveal any more, so I won't. (Whew!)

With the increasing reliance on specialized in-house hardware I'm not sure how much longer hackintoshes have for this world. Granted it currently exists to ensure the chain of trust for running on Apple hardware I can envision a future where both the OS and the hardware look for Apple signatures with little wiggle room.

Given so much of the special sauce involves existing in the Apple ecosystem I don't really see the value of a hackintosh other than rote system specifications, which Apple seems to be rectifying lagging specs (albeit slowly). My day relies on smoothly moving from phone-ipad-office mac with beeping and booping on Apple Watch (dat watch unlock) and AirPods (dat one click switch between mini and iPhone).
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#17 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 10:14 PM

I definitely think that the next Mac Pro will have the option for multi GPU, but I just really hope that they don't make it mandatory like the 2013 Mac Pro.
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#18 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 01:38 AM

Personally I consider Apples surprising push into eGPUs to mean that they are the road forward for now, if you need high-end GPUs in your high end Mac Pro. Is it possible to daisychain eGPUs and use that for scientific calculations or whatever they are used for?

It is also fine for me as a gamer, as I can easily upgrade it. Now we just need an xMac so I can upgrade the CPU easily when time comes.
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#19 Frost

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 10:54 PM

All this fantasizing when you know what the outcome will be.

The Mac Pro will have a power port and a USB-C port. They will announce "Pro Upgrade Modules" where the whole computer comes off except the power supply, then you plug in a new computer into the power supply when you want to upgrade.

Jony Ive will declare this to be the most excellent path forward, mainly because he will color it stark white.

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#20 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 11:43 PM

And the mouse will have one button again.
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