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Mac Upgrade path for a gamer?


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#181 mindnoise

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Posted 06 November 2019 - 10:07 AM

View Postozzy, on 05 November 2019 - 09:37 PM, said:

This adapter is a two-way adapter. Will work to use TB 1/2 devices on a TB 3 Mac, as well as to use TB 3 devices (like an eGPU enclosure) on a TB 1/2 Mac. I use an Akitio Node eGPU with Vega 56 on my 2012 15” Retina MBP with TB 1 using this adapter and a normal TB 2 cable.

https://www.apple.co...rbolt-2-adapter

I never realized they work bi-directional and I use 2 of them... :teehee:

thanks!
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#182 mattw

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Posted 12 November 2019 - 12:50 PM

Having seen the following today:

https://barefeats.co...n-pro-macs.html

I'm beginning to think that rather than moving to a 2018 Mac Mini with an eGPU or a 27" iMac I'd be better off keeping this machine with Mojave for my day to day and then getting another old 2009/2010 Mac Pro sticking in an RX 5700XT and using the unsupported Mac patch to installed Catalina on it.

Maybe the next iMac with get the same GPU to give another option. It really shows how an internal PCI-E slot and access to newer GPU tech makes quiet a difference.
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#183 Frigidman™

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Posted 12 November 2019 - 02:55 PM

View Postmattw, on 12 November 2019 - 12:50 PM, said:

Having seen the following today:

https://barefeats.co...n-pro-macs.html

I'm beginning to think that rather than moving to a 2018 Mac Mini with an eGPU or a 27" iMac I'd be better off keeping this machine with Mojave for my day to day and then getting another old 2009/2010 Mac Pro sticking in an RX 5700XT and using the unsupported Mac patch to installed Catalina on it.

Maybe the next iMac with get the same GPU to give another option. It really shows how an internal PCI-E slot and access to newer GPU tech makes quiet a difference.

Noticed yesterday the RX 5700 XT showed up on our video card list to categorize (for the MGS sysreqs checker). Someone out there must be using one in their mac to get that to happen!

Still seems like an awful lot of money to throw at something thats quite old to begin with. But yeah, maybe the new Macs will come with those cards (as a choice... a CHOICE? apple give CHOICES THESE DAYS LOL HAHAHAH*cough*).

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#184 mattw

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Posted 12 November 2019 - 03:07 PM

To be fair for me personally it doesn't have to be an RX 5700 XT specifically although they do seem to be the sweet spot for value these days (and you really do need to stick with an AMD card on MacOS to avoid possible issues these days).

I'd just like something in my next Mac that is a big step up from an RX 580 to justify a purchase. I know it isn't Apple's fault that rate of progress has slowed a lot since around 2012 but it is hard to spend loads of money just for better single core performance alone especially when it rarely seems to be the bottleneck for most games at decent resolution.
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#185 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 09:09 AM

My 2011 iMac died for the third time today, so it only lasted a couple of months on the last GPU reflow. I'll either be looking at finding a compatible GPU, or do a spring upgrade to a 2020 Mac Mini.

edit: I see on Macrumors that a lot of people have problems with overheating 2018 models. Sigh. We still need an xMac.
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#186 UmarOMC1

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Posted 23 November 2019 - 03:39 AM

Ahh, the xMac. Ergo, a little Google-fu (DuckDuckGo-fu, actually) led me to this Ars Technica article. Which, whilst perusing the description I thought of an old En Vogue song— 'My Lovin' You're Never Gonna Get it'
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(my 'world of hurt' that my kids built in a day & is easier to maintain than Windows)

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#187 macdude22

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Posted 25 November 2019 - 07:38 AM

lol at people still thinking "xMac" will ever be a thing.
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#188 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 29 December 2019 - 03:09 PM

This is about as likely as Cook dating a woman, but I thought I would post it anyway for the discussion, since it mixes the words "Apple" and "esports".

Quote

Rumor: Apple Plans to Launch a new High-End Mac in 2020 designed to address the Esports Market

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#189 Matt Diamond

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Posted 29 December 2019 - 10:07 PM

Looking at the top 10 esports games of 2019, Apple has their work cut out for them.
Still, I could see them making a "lower end" Mac Pro, now that they've developed that form factor. So who knows.
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#190 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 30 December 2019 - 04:30 AM

They would sell at most 100 units of those, if they are targeting a 4-5.000$ price range.
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#191 Matt Diamond

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Posted 30 December 2019 - 12:35 PM

View PostThain Esh Kelch, on 30 December 2019 - 04:30 AM, said:

They would sell at most 100 units of those, if they are targeting a 4-5.000$ price range.
I tend to agree, though I don't know how much e-sports professionals spend on their rigs. Maybe Apple figures that they can come up with a competitively priced model in the pro's price range. (This would go well with their Mac Pro strategy - very expensive, but reasonably priced for such high-end components.)

I wouldn't put any money on this rumor, but here are some predictions anyway:
  • It will be paired with Blizzard announcement that they are finally putting out a Mac version of Overwatch
  • Apple will produce one of their (in)famous testimonial videos, showing e-sport pros saying nice things about the new machine
  • The Apple logo on the case will light up and look totally killer (programmable color scheme)
  • They'll call it "Mac Pro G"
  • Pricewise, it will NOT be a "computer for the rest of us" :-)

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#192 Homy

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Posted 09 January 2020 - 07:49 PM

Now that AMD has announced that Radeon RX 5600M and 5700M will be coming later this year I'm sure we'll see an iMac update too this year instead of 2021. Until now AMD hasn't had any suitable GPUs for iMac after Radeon Pro 555-580 from 2017. I also think that the reason AMD didn't announce a launch date may be that Apple wants to have the GPUs in the new iMacs first, like they did with MacBook Pro 16". Apple is now officially AMD's partner and was mentioned and had its logotype at the AMD presentation during CES (for the first time I think).

Apple may use Radeon Pro 5600M and Pro 5700M like Pro 5300/5500M in MacBook Pro instead of RX M. These GPUs have more compute units but lower clock speed than RX. The 21.5" iMacs will have 5300/5500 and the 27" iMacs will get 5600-5700. On the other hand since these GPUs are already mobile ones with lower power consumption the iMacs may get the RX GPUs instead of the downclocked Pros in MacBook Pro. :)

#193 Homy

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Posted 10 January 2020 - 11:11 AM

View PostHomy, on 09 January 2020 - 07:49 PM, said:

Now that AMD has announced that Radeon RX 5600M and 5700M will be coming later this year I'm sure we'll see an iMac update too this year instead of 2021. Until now AMD hasn't had any suitable GPUs for iMac after Radeon Pro 555-580 from 2017. I also think that the reason AMD didn't announce a launch date may be that Apple wants to have the GPUs in the new iMacs first, like they did with MacBook Pro 16". Apple is now officially AMD's partner and was mentioned and had its logotype at the AMD presentation during CES (for the first time I think).

Apple may use Radeon Pro 5600M and Pro 5700M like Pro 5300/5500M in MacBook Pro instead of RX M. These GPUs have more compute units but lower clock speed than RX. The 21.5" iMacs will have 5300/5500 and the 27" iMacs will get 5600-5700. On the other hand since these GPUs are already mobile ones with lower power consumption the iMacs may get the RX GPUs instead of the downclocked Pros in MacBook Pro. :)

It's been only 2,5 years since Apple began to use desktop GPUs in iMac 2017, but it doesn't mean they can't or won't use mobile GPUs anymore. Unless they redesign iMac there are not so many options for GPUs this year. The current Radeon Pro 580X uses 150 W so the new cards must have similar power usage or they'll be too hot for iMac. RX 5500 XT, 5600 and 5600 XT use 130-150 W so they would fit but 5700 and 5700 XT use 180-235 W so I think they are out of question, not to mention 5800 and 5900 people speculate about.

Apple also usually uses better GPUs in 27" so if they go for desktop GPUs they only have 5500-5600 to play with. They also always have an option for a top GPU like Vega 48 in current iMac 27".

So if they can't use 5700 and 5700 XT as a top GPU the 5600 XT must become the top choice for build to order. Then they may use 5500 XT, 5550 XT and 5600 in iMac 27" like the old 570X, 575X and 580X.

Then they have to use something like 5300 XT and 5350 XT that currently don't exit for iMac 21.5". They probably could also nerf RX 5700 by 30 W and have it as a top GPU but then they'll have to nerf 5600 XT to justify the option.

In the end it's all a game of speculations but with these new desktop and mobile GPUs I'm pretty sure we'll see new iMacs this year instead of 2021.

#194 mattw

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Posted 10 January 2020 - 01:31 PM

My understanding was that the  5500XT and below are 1080p targeting cards and not even as fast as the RX 580 (desktop)?
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#195 Homy

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Posted 10 January 2020 - 08:14 PM

View Postmattw, on 10 January 2020 - 01:31 PM, said:

My understanding was that the  5500XT and below are 1080p targeting cards and not even as fast as the RX 580 (desktop)?

Well that's what AMD advertises but 5500 XT is 49% faster than Radeon Pro 570X and 36% faster than 575X in current iMac 27". It can produce 5.2 TFLOPs vs. 3.96 and 4.49 TFLOPs. According to TechPowerup it is even 13% faster than Pro 580X despite 580X's higher performance of 5.53 TFLOPs.

RX 580 is not the GPU in iMac 27". Pro 580X is a downclocked version. Despite RX 580 producing 6.175 TFLOPs 5500 XT is as powerful or 1% faster than RX 580 according to the site, perhaps because of higher clock speeds. :)

#196 mattw

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Posted 11 January 2020 - 04:53 AM

Thanks - it gets so confusing with all the variants using the same basic name. I did not realise the iMac RX580X was down clocked. I am using a desktop RX580 in my 10 year old Mac Pro and hanging in there but really wanted a big jump in GPU performance for better 1440p to consider a new Mac (2019 Mac Pro is out of my league). My hope was for desktop 5700XT performance or better in the iMac but sounds like that is not likely.
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#197 Homy

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Posted 11 January 2020 - 11:30 AM

View Postmattw, on 11 January 2020 - 04:53 AM, said:

Thanks - it gets so confusing with all the variants using the same basic name. I did not realise the iMac RX580X was down clocked. I am using a desktop RX580 in my 10 year old Mac Pro and hanging in there but really wanted a big jump in GPU performance for better 1440p to consider a new Mac (2019 Mac Pro is out of my league). My hope was for desktop 5700XT performance or better in the iMac but sounds like that is not likely.
If they redesign iMac to look like the new Pro Display or use a similar cooling as in iMac Pro it's possible. Radeon Vega Pro 64X in iMac Pro uses 250 W. 5700 XT uses 225 W and 5700 180 W. The downside of iMac Pro though is that the memory is not user upgradeable like iMac 27" because of the bigger cooling system.

#198 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 11 January 2020 - 01:25 PM

Are we nearing a point where we might have a GPU (5700XT?) that will give us 1440p gaming on an iMac at 60+ FPS with all settings to max, for most modern AAA games?

Also, if AMD comes out with hardware raytracing in 2020, and we get that on Mac, is there actually macOS support for it? And will Bootcamp at least support it? And speaking of raytracing, since I don't know much about it - Is it merely 'you have it or not' question, or is it also a question of how powerful your hardware is, ie. does raytracing quality scale in any meaningful way?
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#199 Cougar

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Posted 11 January 2020 - 03:58 PM

View PostThain Esh Kelch, on 11 January 2020 - 01:25 PM, said:

Are we nearing a point where we might have a GPU (5700XT?) that will give us 1440p gaming on an iMac at 60+ FPS with all settings to max, for most modern AAA games?

Also, if AMD comes out with hardware raytracing in 2020, and we get that on Mac, is there actually macOS support for it? And will Bootcamp at least support it? And speaking of raytracing, since I don't know much about it - Is it merely 'you have it or not' question, or is it also a question of how powerful your hardware is, ie. does raytracing quality scale in any meaningful way?

Bootcamp just uses normal PC graphics drivers, so sure it will work. MacOS...I wouldn’t count on it. The number of Macs that could effectively use it would be minuscule.

Ray tracing is just a feature you turn on, like Nvidia Hairworks. In Metro Exodus you can set it to “high” or “ultra.” Also like Nvidia hairworks, it kills your FPS.

#200 Janichsan

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Posted 11 January 2020 - 04:18 PM

View PostCougar, on 11 January 2020 - 03:58 PM, said:

Bootcamp just uses normal PC graphics drivers, so sure it will work. MacOS...I wouldn't count on it. The number of Macs that could effectively use it would be minuscule.
Metal actually has already support for hardware accelerated raytracing. If future AMD GPUs with dedicated raytracing features would be fully supported is of course a question of whether or not these features get properly implemented in the drivers.

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